Sig > Glock

Cmdeshon said:
I would like to try out the 365xl but I think it would take a lot to get me to convert.
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As it turns out we are in the same town and that can easily be arranged. Just let me know.
 
NKD said:
Glock design is genius. No need to "market" it. It markets itself.
That's why all the plastic guns from CZ, HK, Sig, Canik, etc are basically copies of a Glock.
For plastic, I prefer my CZ. But it's a Glock copy.
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Actually, all plastic guns are basically copies of the H&K VP70. ;)
 
Studentofthegun said:
As it turns out we are in the same town and that can easily be arranged. Just let me know.
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That would be cool. I don't have a safe place to shoot near by though. I currently drive way too far to shoot. Someone grew a whole bunch of houses where I used to shoot :(
 
Jeppo said:
Actually, all plastic guns are basically copies of the H&K VP70. ;)
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VP70 definitely paved the way for plastic and striker.

But it's a giant POS compared to the Glock.
 
I like Glock, and generally include them on my "What do you recommend I look at in an EDC?" when people ask me or are just getting into the game.

However, I do chuckle with the "Perfection" thing...especially when most fanbois (not you regular users, dont get all panty wadded) buy one, then change sights, the slide release, the mag release, the trigger, the springs, add extensions to magazines, have the slide milled, stipple the frame...and then declare "see? Perfection!" Reminds me of what BatteryOaks once said about a relative owning George Washingtons axe "Handles only been replaced twice and the head once!".

When you add good timing, good marketing, good reliability, and a cult following, you will have success. But I agree with those above who have put forth that if Glock would actually listen to the current market, they would be doing even better. There is a whole new generation of shooters coming along...we had the "I aint gonna use no plastic firearm!" crowd, and then the "Glock r pufection!" days, and now we are into the "Whats the best tool on the market, I dont care about heirlooms" days. And Glock, for all of their utility and history, are just another plastic gun that doesnt offer what some other companies do these days.

But, yeah, they have 33 round magazines...so they have that.
 
rms2324 said:
Natural point-of-aim doesn’t exist? Interesting
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Not to flame anybody, NPA has as much to do with foot placement, hip angle, shoulder extension, etc... as it does with whatever bow you're holding. That's why you shuffle your feet to recheck your NPA, especially on long guns. You're moving your presentation to your NPA, not the other way around.
I get what you're saying, but the difference isn't NPA, it's presentation. For you, the glock grip angle just results in a less perfect presentation based on your current training situation. Could be grip angle, hand size, finger length, grip cant, support hand pressure, finger grooves, sight height, head angle, eye angle, etc... any of a myriad of factors. Besides, if you're looking at NPA for anything other than a quick check with a combat handgun, you're mixing games.
Glocks are definitely not bullseye guns, but they aren't built for that. Glocks are built for a dark night in a parking lot in the rain, when you've already been knocked on your ass. The worst scenario. And, they will work. That's why we give them out to every countries police and military force all over the world. Mags are cheap and almost indestructible.
But, the earlier post about times changing is entirely correct. We used to have pistols with major QC or ammo issues. I wouldn't carry 9mm for years because I'd seen too many folks walk off after getting hit with it. I wouldn't carry certain handguns because I'd seen too many stovepipe and stoppages caused by poorly made products or magazines. Those days are gone, because the market won't tolerate it. Any of the major brands make quality products now, even the frequently bashed "plastic pistols".
Pick whatever tool works for you and shoot the crap out of it; shoot it one handed a lot, shoot it while moving forward-backwards- and at angles ( get off the X). It's all about presentation, presentation, presentation on a combat handgun. The grip you have when it leaves the holster is the grip you have to work with and it goes from there. And, your presentation drives your speed and relative accuracy. Handguns are defensive tools made for critical engagements, we don't run out of distance or ammo, we run out of time.
Glock ? Sig ? CZ ? Smith ? I like them all. Some I shoot better than others, some carry better for me than others. I agree with the earlier poster about being able to pick up anything and run it, especially at handgun distances.
Sorry for the rant.
 
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I've been down the "innovation" road. No thanks. Sig seems to have so much innovation built in that the P320 fire by themselves ;). I like a simple design. The grip doesn't necessarily have to fit my hand like a glove. I've discovered that doesn't always translate to better shooting or accuracy. I have no issues with the trigger on a stock Gock other than the shoe itself. I installed an Overwatch PolyDat to remedy that. I like CZ and S&W well enough but I also like to be able to easily change out parts myself when wanted/needed. I can do that with a Glock. Not so much with other pistols. That said, the CZ P07 & P01 Omega are pretty easily disassembled with simple tools.
 
I unfortunately worked in a local high end gunshop for almost 4 years. We were a Sig and Kimber Master dealer. We also carried HK, CZ, Colt, Nighthawk, Glock, S&W, Dan Wesson, Kimber and others.

The ONLY brands that were problem free and NEVER returned due to issues were HK and CZ. EVERYTHING else had problems. Some brands or particular models had MULTIPLE problems. Like the s&w "bodyguard" (I wouldn't guard a corpse with that POS) or the Kimber micro pistols (malfunction training devices).

And we also had some Glocks with problems. Don't ask me what they were as I am not a Glock fan and the Glock armorer on staff handled those. I do recall that the 48, 43X and 44 were the models he cussed most. ;)

Were I forced by sorry circumstances to purchase a new production handgun, the only one I would consider would be HK. Yes, they may hate you because you suck and they may have lousy customer service - but I wouldn't know. Because in over 25 years of owning, shooting, selling and buying HKs, I have never needed customer service. And IMHO, thats the best customer service there is. ;) Regards 18DAI
 
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People talk about Glocks not pointing naturally. A gun naturally points wherever you are used to pointing it. You just have to be familiar enough with it. I was not a Glock fan till I got rid of their fat framed .45acp models that I had owned previously, and was introduced to the Gen 4 9mm models.

I had been shooting 1911’s a lot, which of course are vastly different, and yet after spending 2 days with Hackathorn and Vickers in a group class we ran a night drill, where you basically stood 7-10 yards from an IDPA cardboard target in the dark, shown your handheld on the target momentarily to see where it was, put away your light, let your eyes adjust, then engage the head of the target in the dark (I had no night sights on my G17) and make ten shots. I was down zero on that exercise.

The Glock pointed where I was used to pointing it for those two days. I was frankly amazed at the gun, and myself.
 
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I have shot Glock's since 1995, and have never needed their customer service myself. I don't mind their sights, as I can shoot them just fine with them, but I do change them. No manufacturer puts the sights I run on anything out of the factory. I run a XS big dot white front, and a Ameriglo serrated plain black u notch rear. And on one G-19, a Triji RMR. I have Hi Powers, old Smith's, 1911's, and can shoot the piss out of all of them equally. Take your chosen platform of concealed carry, and shoot the wizard, and see that grip angle thing go right out the window. Whatcha think @BatteryOaksBilly?

Sent from my moto g power (XT2041DL) using Tapatalk
 
18DAI said:
I unfortunately worked in a local high end gunshop for almost 4 years. We were a Sig and Kimber Master dealer. We also carried HK, CZ, Colt, Nighthawk, Glock, S&W, Dan Wesson, Kimber and others.

The ONLY brands that were problem free and NEVER returned due to issues were HK and CZ. EVERYTHING else had problems. Some brands or particular models had MULTIPLE problems. Like the s&w "bodyguard" (I wouldn't guard a corpse with that POS) or the Kimber micro pistols (malfunction training devices).

And we also had some Glocks with problems. Don't ask me what they were as I am not a Glock fan and the Glock armorer on staff handled those. I do recall that the 48, 43X and 44 were the models he cussed most. ;)

Were I forced by sorry circumstances to purchase a new production handgun, the only one I would consider would be HK. Yes, they may hate you because you suck and they may have lousy customer service - but I wouldn't know. Because in over 25 years of owning, shooting, selling and buying HKs, I have never needed customer service. And IMHO, thats the best customer service there is. ;) Regards 18DAI
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How many HK's were sold compared to Glocks?
 
Glock has pedestrian tools nailed to perfection. They don't do anything but shoot well, and have useless plastic factory sights. Every Glock needs new steel sights on day one.
Sig is the new master of the Alpha test roll out. They charge full price to every customer then revise their design as problems pop up. I have one Sig at this point, and it's my carry gun, and it's wearing aftermarket parts that fix every shortcoming that Sig released it with. That's crazy.

HK. Got three of them. Want more. No problems ever. All factory parts. Ran from day one.
Beretta. Got a few of these. All factory parts. Ran from day one.
 
Stick Man said:
Whatcha think @BatteryOaksBilly?
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Stick, I think if people were serious about their concealed carry, they could give 3 minutes a day to "Presentation". Maybe just 10 seconds at a time....but 3 minutes. Enough practice of "Presentation" will help you defeat any personal preference for you concealed system.

Less than 10% that I see here are willing.....the 10% that do will always be better than the 90% that don't.
 
fieldgrade said:
in the dark, shown your handheld on the target momentarily to see where it was, put away your light, let your eyes adjust, then engage the head of the target in the dark (I had no night sights on my G17) and make ten shots. I was down zero on that exercise.
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Another piece of evidence that Night Sights are good only for marketing. Those of you that believe differently....COME SHOW ME. In 3 minutes I will show you how useless they are....this exercise described above goes wholly to Presentation.....
 
NKD said:
How many HK's were sold compared to Glocks?
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Two well recognized instructors who have have taught firearms all over the world for many years will tell you that you will see far and away more Glocks than any other handgun all over the world.
 
frakncylons said:
It’s as if everyone likes different things and we are blessed with so many choices!
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It’s funny you say that. After Ken Hackathorn told us how there are so many more Glocks everywhere he teaches outside the US, that they also don’t have the enormous variety of firearms to choose from that we do here in the US.
 
Its a topic that won't be won. Its like car manufacturers and shoes. Folks like different brands models etc.

My favorite is a glock and its just my opinion. They are plenty of nicer fancier guns with more bells and whistles. I carried a bareta with the sheriffs department and a sig p220 with pd. Then new chief came and we carried glock g22 till this day. I've always had good luck with glocks. I agree factory sights are crap and prior to gen 5 triggers aren't that great. My wife a sig fan and she has p365 nra edition. She don't like texture on the glocks. She hasn't tried my gen 5's I take care of my guns and don't abuse them and clean them regularly after range trips and every couple months. Some of the idiots on YouTube do torture test on some of brands and most of us will never face the conditions they try the test in.

Happy shooting and a new year.
 
fieldgrade said:
Two well recognized instructors who have have taught firearms all over the world for many years will tell you that you will see far and away more Glocks than any other handgun all over the world.
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I honestly already know the answer. There are many many many more glocks used and sold than HKs. That’s why you don’t see many HK being fixed. Very few people use them. The only ones I really see is the VP9. Which is a Glock copy, lol.

At any rate: I am a CZ fan, and enjoy those pistols the most. IMO: they are very reliable and much more fun to shoot than Glocks. So not a “fan boy” (jeez what a juvenile thing to even say), just pragmatic about guns that work.
 
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Well, it also stands to reason that before the VP9 was released the average HK pistol was in the $800-1k ballpark. Two Glocks or three S&W for that much cash.
Of course there's Glocks everywhere.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Well, it also stands to reason that before the VP9 was released the average HK pistol was in the $800-1k ballpark. Two Glocks or three S&W for that much cash.
Of course there's Glocks everywhere.
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Exactly.

Less Ferrari’s come in for service than Honda Civics. That doesn’t mean Ferrari’s are more reliable.
 
Catfish said:
Bull. Hockey. That doesn't exist. You've trained to shoot one pistol then you pick up another one and it's different - yup. Now train with that one and master it too. and the next one and so on. arrows vs indians and all that.
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I disagree. When I pick up a Beretta or 1911, they both have a natural straight point of aim. I’ve shot both extensively for years. When I got out of the army, I went to work for a Virtual Reality range where the range manufacturer also built the guts for a Glock but parted out the guts for the beretta, M&P, Sig and others. The Glock performed better with the system so I started shooting them instead of the Beretta. When I aimed the Glock in a natural aim, it was pointed up from the target. To get it on target, I had to strain my arm and could feel it all the way back to my shoulder. I finally learned to shoot them and I’ve bought several, but they are harder to shoot in my case.
 
Your prior training creates muscle memory. Muscle memory becomes what you percieve as comfortable and "natural". There's nothing natural at all about how you hold a handgun unless maybe you count the gansta grip. That's pretty close the way you point your finger with an empty hand.
 
I always heard salesman say, choose the gun that feels the best in your hand and they would proceed to sell people all kinds of stupid crap.

My advice was always, buy a glock and learn how to shoot it.

In my opinion, its the only gun I’d feel comfortable carrying right out of the box.
 
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