Sooo who would bet????
- Thread starter BatteryOaksBilly
- Start date
- Replies 235
- Views 11,904
OP
Me too. The others, and I have a lot of others, are merely range toys and conversation pieces.
I think that my 3.5" Citadel would run 300+ rounds with no problems. I have a great amount of confidence in the gun maybe because of the bull barrel. It takes out one of the moving parts. Not sure my hand could handle 300 round in a short time period.
OP
I have folks who drive that just to shoot on Sunday and have a little fellowship in the Old South. Hell, @Geezer and I drove 7 hours last week to eat a salad and French fries.
We talked about this Sunday when we had some long distance folks in for eating and shooting. I said it had been my observation in life that people on the whole do Exactly Whatever they Want to do. No matter, time, money, conveinence, or even health. All agreed.
People go to a Mall and spend 6 hours from home and have 0 memories for the day. Obviously the "bet" didn't get completely through, be that as it may, we would love to have you visit and soak up some Old South hospitality. Many have, and we all were better for their visit.
OP
The Bet has Nothing to do with your coming. Your generosity with your wonderful cookies gets you a pass for Life. I'm sure you spend much more than 6 hours on your journey, and we appreciate your long trip Just to shoot with us.
Geezer
Mama Tried
Staff member
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
Cookies? @KnotRight brought cookies? Was I aware of this? Am I slipping that bad or did you hide them from me? This is going to cause me much anguish and stress until I get to the bottom of this.
Let me help you out..... Billy ate the cookies. No, he didn't tell you about them.
Last edited:
A little over 8 hours if I do not run into any traffic.
Last edited:
OP
That would be yes.
See this is my issue as well, I have a Metro Arms 1911 that I'm 99% confident would pass this test, but I never bet something I can't afford to lose. (have seen too many others do exactly that, including a couple of folks that happened to be betting against me at the time)
Geezer
Mama Tried
Staff member
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
But there's that 1%........
Geezer
Mama Tried
Staff member
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
Beware of the swampers.
actually less than 1%, this gun hasn't choked on MY ammo (ie my reloads) since I decided SWCs weren't worth piddling with to find the seating depth the worked.
Which means that the gun has now gone over 2k since it's last stoppage (with my reloads, had a dead primer in some cheap Fed ammo last year).
But my position of "never bet something you don't have, or can't afford to lose" remains, I wouldn't take the bet even if I was 100% sure, simply because I don't have $1K I'm willing to lose.
Last edited:
Geezer
Mama Tried
Staff member
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
I took basic training at Ft Polk.
So did my grandfather.
Rest of his life he equated Louisiana with hell, and that's a strong position coming from a man who served in the 7th ID from the Aleutians (he was amongst the troops sent ashore at Attu still wearing desert uniforms) through to Leyte. in fact winter of either '75 or '76 my folks were living in western La, and it snowed. so mom took a picture, sent it to him and told him that now he had to do all those things he said he'd do "when hell froze over"..
Boo! I've heard that place is miserable. I'm an alumnus of the Ft Benning Academy for Wayward Boys, myself & that was bad enough. Place wasn't any better when I went back for jump school, then Jumpmaster, but at least I was an NCO & could escape for a beer or 3 to unwind after a long day.
OP
Like perhaps....your life?
That's not a bet.
THAT is a "I will fight like the 3rd monkey to reach the Ark" issue.
And as a matter of fact, among the handguns I currently own that are viable for self defense, I have the highest confidence in the reliability, accuracy, and function of my 1911. this being at least in part because I have fired more of my chosen SD ammo in that one 1911 than the current total round count through any one of my other centerfire pistols.
It should be noted I am not making any comment about the 1911 in general. the 1911 that preceded my current one, I wouldn't have felt comfortable with as a CCW, but that's a different discussion.
MacEntyre
Shoot on Sight!
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Member
Benefactor
Life Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
1911s rock!
Yes they do.
But let's be honest, they can be temperamental little shits at times. down right prima-donnas compared to more recent designs.
I haven't found that to be the case. Of course, I haven't spent a lot of time with the recent entries into the market, other than to occasionally beat one into submission after a friend or acquaintance has plunked his money down only to find that he bought more hype than gun.
From what I've seen, the producers of such novelties seem to think that specs are suggestions instead of hard, fast rules...but if they're fairly close, I can usually work around it and make'em behave.
Here's the thing. When Colt approached John Browning about the project they'd embarked on, everybody involved knew that the pistol would eventually wind up on some faraway killing ground In that time, it was to be the primary arm of horse-mounted cavalry and not an afterthought issued to mortar and tank crews or as an officer's symbol of rank. It was first and foremost a weapon. It not only had to function, it had to function under some of the worst conditions imaginable.
And it did.
Two of the most common contributors to "temperamental" 1911 pistols that I see is overspringing the slide in the mistaken belief that it will somehow save the frame...and the insistence on using 8-round...or more...magazines. (We're taking about .45 caliber pistols here.)
Let's have a show of hands for any who believe that the standard magazine would physically accommodate 8 rounds somehow escaped Browning's notice. Can we at least consider the possibility that he tried to make it work and found that it couldn't meet the requirements for reliable function...and therefore abandoned? I don't think that's too far-fetched.
Those two questions aside, the most common spec issue that I see is excessive extractor deflection. The extractor being postioned too far inboard, leaving too much of the tensioning wall in the breech area, which causes many of the failure to feed and go to/return to battery problems. I can't recall how many finicky feeders I've made dead reliable by spending 10 minutes adjusting the extractor deflection...many times after the guns have been back to the manufacturer under warranty without resolving the problem. It's become so common that it's the first thing that I look for after determining that Dremel Dan hasn't been at the feed ramp.
Here's the thing...
The 1911 pistol was designed to function. Correctly built to spec and fed decent ammunition from a proper magazine, it will function. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.
Last edited:
MacEntyre
Shoot on Sight!
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Member
Benefactor
Life Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
I haven't found that to be the case, either. With a lot of Johnny's help, I've learned how to spot an unmolested, vintage 1911, and they have been wonderful, reliable shooters.
What if folks hacked away at Glock feed ramps? Or installed factory parts, but bent 'em up first? That would turn a Glock into a temperamental little shit, a down right prima-donna compared to an in-spec 1911!
Meh, I understand your point but it's not necessarily a fair comparison. In a 300 round session, I could have one failure of the slide to lock back and lose the bet. If caught out in the open in a firefight, that failure could cost you your life. In an extended exchange, after my nervous ass retreated to cover, the 3 seconds it cost me might not be that significant. Tap, rack, click, then reload.
However, in the last 2,000 rounds or so out of my Sig P320 9mm, I don't remember one malfunction of any kind with all manner of ammo including factory 115 and 124 and minor power factor 147 blue bullets. The blue bullets won't function at all in my Colt Combat Unit Rail Gun. The P320 is my IDPA gun, rides in my truck and sleeps with me. It came as a Tacops version, with 4 21-rd mags. I can usually get only 20 in the mags, but still.
I watch a lot of Westerns, especially the old ones. In the realistic scenes, the six-shooters are always being reloaded, slowly. I think, "Oh, what that guy would give to have a 1911 in 45 with a couple of spare 7-rd magazines."
I bet the horse-mounted cavalry would take my P320 Tacops in 9mm with its four 21-rd magazines over any 1911 you would care to hand them.
By the way, I love 1911s. I own three now and have owned another 3 or 4 more.
Why does everyone assume that their moment of truth will always involve a running gun battle?
If...as an armed citizen...you haven't solved your problem by the time the gun is empty, you're probably in over your head to start with.
But, that said...I've always viewed the slidelock function as a "You're so screwed" indicator. It's a stoppage, and a stoppage isn't something that you want to let happen. That it's an engineered stoppage is irrelevant. No matter how you cut it, it's still a stoppage.
In a bad situation, you may not even realize that it locked on empty. It takes time to determine the cause of the stoppage. Time to get the gun reloaded and back in the fight...probably fumbling for the magazine and fumbling to get it locked in. Time is a luxury that you don't have.
Despite common belief, you can train yourself to count rounds. Practice it. Ingrain it. Better that you get to choose when to reload than have the gun do it for you.
To be up front and clear I meant to speak only of those copies of the 1911 in current production, including the current iteration of Colt (which is NOT the same company that gave us the original 1911). I briefly (it became a B-day gift to a friend who will likely be buried with it) owned an unmolested WW2 production Colt, and yes it ran like a top while I had it, the GI sights were the only thing I didn't really like about it. Sidenote: I am now slightly ashamed of how little I paid for that pistol, guy I got it from didn't know what he had, and it became mine $200 and some cheap camping gear...
this one gets me too, I guess that myth lingers because so many shooters don't train, or for that matter do much more than square up to a piece of cardboard with a Shoot-N-C plastered on and take their time making little patterns, or conversely mag dumping at the same target. And only every other month or so if that often.
I'm still at the shallow end of the local USPSA pool so to speak, and, excepting going stupid on a plate rack, I don't think I've shot to slide lock at a match in over 4 years.
Oh, and I said can be temperamental, not are, Can be important distinction there
Last edited:
MacEntyre
Shoot on Sight!
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Member
Benefactor
Life Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
But you compare them to stock, in-spec Glocks made by one manufacturer.
Ah. From your statement, it sounded like you were lumping them all into the same pile.
To be up front and clear, I don't see very many problem children even from the current crop, and every one that I have had occasion to attend to had something out of spec. The biggest offenders have been the Filipino clones. Some of them can be tweaked and some are beyond what help I can give them.
By aznd large, too many problems come from owner modifications...or "upgrades" as they're fond of calling them...and too often by the use of action/recoil springs that are far too heavy. Magazines run a close second. I wish I had a dime for every delinquent I've "fixed" by simply handing the owner a few of my magazines and telling him to try again. They're mystified when their problems evaporate...and then go back to the same magazines that caused the problems. Reminds me of an old dog that returns to an abusive owner.
OP
John I was once told that a wise man can determine what his problem is and Then decide whether it's worth addressing.
You fit that if ever anybody did.
Yes, but in USPSA you can drop a loaded mag on the ground and leave it. In IDPA you cannot.
And that begs the question: who would ever drop a partially loaded mag on the ground in an actual self-defense situation? I can almost not think of any situation where it would make sense.
How does that old saw go...
Grant me the strength to change what I can, the serenity to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Or something like that.
Learned that a long time ago.
In a running battle I might drop a couple rounds to have 8 in hand, but that’s all just fantasy talk, I’ll pull the trigger until it stops going bang, throw the gun, and then throw the loaded mags.
I hate learning new stuff! Now I have to learn to count correctly, drop an empty mag and forego the slide release. I just picked up half a second, which will move me from fiftieth place to forty-ninth. LOL
In a field of forty two
Excuse me, but now I have to learn how to count. Jeezzzz What next I have to read to0!!!
Last edited: