In a field of forty two
You met me, right? They don't call me "Lightning" for nothing.
My SO calls me deliberate, which means slow people pass me in a flash.
Sooo who would bet????
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You met me, right? They don't call me "Lightning" for nothing.
My SO calls me deliberate, which means slow people pass me in a flash.
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Still can’t do that in IDPA, and in a self-defense scenario, who the heck is counting?
IDPA is a little touched in the head about some things. Like can’t drop an empty mag on the ground if you have one in the chamber. I was hoping they’d changed that since the last time I looked.
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Forget that. They shoot to slide lock, always have.
More importantly, who’s counting rounds in self defense scenario?
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I hope I do. Never had the necessity to try. For under 10 rounds I think I will know. I have counted a lot of rounds.
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Please re-read my previous posts, tell me where I used the word "Glock"...But you compare them to stock, in-spec Glocks made by one manufacturer.
I'm gonna split my answer to your post in two bear with me.
^^what they said.
If you train/practice the action of "counting rounds" it becomes second nature and pretty much unconscious to do so. Because I've done 95% of my pistol shooting for the past 9 years with a 1911, at this point if I setup a practice scenario that involves more than 8rds being fired (thus requiring a 1911 shooter to reload) after the 8th shot breaks my thumb is headed to the mag release and my off hand to my belt. In other words I've wound up programed to "fire 8 and reload". that's going to be a bitch of a habit to break when I eventually switch to shooting my CZ for awhile but that's a different discussion.
the whole "Under stress you revert to your level of training (and HOW you trained)" axiom keeps proving true, so I'm reasonably sure that if I'm ever in a legit fight, using a 1911 I'll wind up reaching for a reload after 8 rounds.
I hope the previous section helped answer some of this. If I was presented with a situation where I was unsure of how many rounds I was going to need, knew that I had one round in the chamber and 2 or less in the mag, and had a fully loaded 2nd mag at hand, the mostly to fully expended mag is going to go bye-bye.
Also ask the question:
- are you crazy/motivated/confident enough to perform the real life equivalent of an IDPA stage
- under the limitations placed on your actions by the IDPA rule book,
- with targets/opponents that can shoot back and are in fact trying to kill you?
I hope the answer is no.
You have to remember that founders of IDPA built the sport and it's rule book around the idea of "What would you do in a gun fight?" this created a set of what amount to "Fouls" involving actions that they believed the average person involved in a Self defense situation would not perform (non-slide lock reloads), or should perform (Cover, retention reloads, etc). and any comments about IDPA being "(more) Realistic" are/were meant as a contrast to USPSA in the late '90s. not that the rules have a tremendous amount to do with how one should act in an actual shootout.
An example of where IDPA rules diverge from reality, and to me a big one. is that what IDPA calls "Cover" is actually "Concealment" and there is a big flipping difference between those two!! "Cover" is provided by something that can reasonably protect you from incoming fire, "concealment" merely hides you from site. a residential wall is NOT cover!
You have to remember that founders of IDPA built the sport and it's rule book around the idea of "What would you do in a gun fight?" this created a set of what amount to "Fouls" involving actions that they believed the average person involved in a Self defense situation would not perform (non-slide lock reloads), or should perform (Cover, retention reloads, etc). and any comments about IDPA being "(more) Realistic" are/were meant as a contrast to USPSA in the late '90s. not that the rules have a tremendous amount to do with how one should act in an actual shootout.
An example of where IDPA rules diverge from reality, and to me a big one. is that what IDPA calls "Cover" is actually "Concealment" and there is a big flipping difference between those two!! "Cover" is provided by something that can reasonably protect you from incoming fire, "concealment" merely hides you from site. a residential wall is NOT cover!
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And that's one area where USPSA and IDPA are lacking. If I had the time in a self-defense situation, I would never drop a mag with rounds in it on the ground. I would retain it in a pocket, in my teeth, or in my belt. IDPA rules make you stow it, if I recall correctly. IDPA also won't let you pick up a loaded mag from, say, a table and carry it to the next "concealment" to shoot at the next target. I hope I wouldn't take the time to make sure my extra loaded mag, on a table beside my loaded gun, was properly placed in my mag holder before I left the chair or couch to engage a bad guy.
Some competition rules are just competition rules, meant to ensure safety and/or conformity with some perceived norms.
Exactly
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You said "more recent designs"... dog whistle for "Glock"!
I do not use "dog whistles", If I'd specifically meant Glock I would have written it.
Now Glock would be included in the general group that I wished to reference, but so are the Berretta 92, CZ-75, and a whole laundry list of other designs.
personally, my views on Glock are that they are well designed guns that are probably one of the better choices for the average owner. but they do not interface with me very well, I can not shoot them as well as other guns, and something about the grip geometry makes my hand hurt after a time.
And 1911s are my favorite design, but they are not for everyone.
Glocks are the gun equivalent of a Honda Civic you put in gas (ammo) and go, every now and then you re-lube the thing.
1911s are not. more akin to a classic muscle car. no problem if you're gonna just keep it in the garage or take it out on occasion only. but needs more attention to keep running if you're going to put high mileage on it. but then again if you take care of it, it'll out last you.
And again, This hasn't been my experience.
My two dedicated beaters...early Colt (Billboard) 1991A1s...have seen a little over 400,000 rounds collectively about evenly split since I started using them for beaters in the spring of 1992. At one point, I was burning 25,000 rounds annually...per gun. I rebarreled both at the 75,000 and the 150,000 round mark. Aside from that and cleaning and changing the recoil and mainsprings about every 10,000 rounds and 25,000 rounds respectively, I haven't had to so much as adjust extractor tension on either in over 20 years. I attribute that in large part to my refusal to use magazines that push feed the last round. (That little bump on the original follower was put there for a reason.)
One is still running on its original MIM sear and disconnect, and the other on the original MIM sear. I replaced the disconnect at roughly 100,000 rounds because it was starting to show a little wear at the top. More of a nipping in the bud thing than a necessity.
I've had to replace one slidestop...broken lug...restake one plunger tube about 10 years ago after noticing that it was a little loose on the safety end, and replaced one sear spring a couple years ago.
I did replace the OEM triggers early on because I didn't like the sloppy plastic ones that Colt was using at the time. Nothin' fancy. Just plain old short, milled Sistema triggers that I'd had on hand for years. Personal preference and not a necessity.
I detail strip and clean both about every 2500 rounds, mainly because of the cack that builds up from the soft lube on my old funky cast bullets, but that's a small price to pay for not wearing out barrels.
Not bad considering the hard use and abuse they've endured.
There are so many little things with the pistol that modern clone makers either don't know about or choose to forego for the sake of economy or appearance...like the left side grip panel that supports the plunger tube so that it doesn't loosen and keeps it nailed firmly in place just in case it does. And the punch cut on the recoil spring plug that threads onto the open end of the spring that keeps the plug from launching if our thumb slips during disassembly. Or the grip screw slots that are dished in the bottom to match the case rim's radius that allows the case to be used to remove them.
Little things that made the gun what it was intended to be.
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MacEntyre
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Lighten up, friend! I called it a dog whistle to be funny.
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This thread has gone far astray of the original "bet" discussion. I am a relative novice, especially with 1911s and tactical training. I bow out.
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I edited the mischievous portion of my last post, and I will also bow out. My apologies to you all!
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Leave funny to the professionals.
My Sigs and Caniks eat more than 300 rounds all the time without malfunctioning but I don't have any 1911 right now to test. I think a really good test would be 300 rounds of carry ammo. Now that's a test of a 1911.
I haven’t been to the range since this discussion started, but I have a case of WWB pulled. It’ll gum things up faster than my reloads, but I’m curious how long I can get each of 2 guns to go, one brand new and one old and abused.
Agree but would just like to make this point:
They are only lacking if you view them through the lens of preparing oneself for "gunfights" or "running gun battles".
Most people who shoot USPSA are doing it to become better shooters, not better "gunfighters", so it's only lacking if combat/gunfight/self defense training is what you are looking for.
OP
Ole Clint says this about that...No you Won't, it won't be Nearly that good. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
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And THIS is exactly what I was hoping would become of this discussion. Get those blasters out and give them a good work out.If I did this yesterday I would have lost $1000
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In this heat? My ammo will fire before I can even take it outta the box.
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Yep ... and if you shoot with friends in an environment (like some good people at BO) where you can work on more things that make you think work on malfunctions! Have a friend load a dummy round in a mag or three to simulate a failure to fire and practice the simple tap rack bang, a mag strip & clear w/ new mag load and any other failure drills you can setup(some pipe, double feeds,etc). I’ve been slack in drilling with them myself and even worse with my kid who’s at the age (17 going on 18) he really should be working on them too.
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I agree with that. simply couldn't dredge up the quote, and fell back on the more well known and less accurate comment because I couldn't figure out how to say it without rambling.
In my defense, it was late and I was tired...
See the above "it was late I was tired"(and it had been a looong day)
I'm good, if you're good.
Yesterday was a very frustrating day for reasons that don't need going into. and I thought you were intentionally poking me and couldn't understand why.
Ok, i'm glad you've had better luck with em.
I'm just commenting based on my own experience/observation. mainly from seeing/hearing the results of the following:
- "mr average gunowner" who's previously only owned a Glock, or similar polymer frame double stack, deciding to go down to his store of choice and get a 1911.
- buying one of the Philippine made guns, (or a Kimber at twice as much)
- expecting a 1911 that cost the same as his polymer gun to run like the polymer gun
- and when the 1911 pukes on them cussing the gun rather than looking into what's wrong.
folks (like the two of us) that are shooting more rounds through 1911 in a month, than many owners will in a year or more are in an entirely different world from the "average" 1911 owner.
That is one of the issues I have had IDPA, I continue to encounter shooters (thankfully a minority, but a visible one) who do approach the sport as self defense/combat training and have it as an article of faith that IDPA is gonna help them win a gunfight, sometimes with the addendum "USPSA will get ya killed in the streets"
. Typically these are the same guys that after you're around them a while you realize that among other traits, their only "firearms instruction" was their CHL class and they think they're in the bottom half of the match results because the other guy has better gear (in IDPA SSP? Really??
).
OP
And THAT is what makes them "special".
On a completely different note..Stay Tuned..there is movement off this Forum to have a Practical Pistol Match here. The killer to this match will be it is a "BLIND" match. No one will see anything until they round the corner and the fight is on. Yes, it Will Be Concealed only. Stay tuned there are some really qualified folks on board for this. If you have never shot a blind match before you will have a whole new outlook on your personal training from then on.
That would be worth the 3 hours each way. I have done blind stages/exercises a couple times in classes and once in a match. Fun! And a useful kind of stressful. And completely different from gaming a match stage, which is my specialty
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I would feel comfortable doing it with my only one of my guns I wouldn’t fell confident in is my 1911 in 9mm. I think I have the same issue as Millie so maybe I will douse it in lube next time I’m out and see if that works.
Me Likey...!!!!
A blind match takes any gaming out of the equation.
It also stresses "run what you brung, and hope you brung enough"...
Can one deliver the shot(s) to neutralize the target and not hit "friendlies"??
On the streets, if one engages and hits a "friendly" non-threat, one will generally find themselves as a defendant in a civil trial. All the more reason to make sure you know what you are engaging and deliver a precise shot(s)... Throwing C's, D's, and Mikes ain't gonna cut it.
Exactly.....
When the fight is on and you are left with only one option, Its GO time.... Immediately Fight your way out of the situation or become a victim/statistic...
(Don't tell anyone, but I forgot to lube it before the match....and it just went on about its business beautifully for me! Oh, the mysterious awesomeness of the 1911 9mm....LoL.)
Millie, thou shall lube thy rails and putteth the oil lightly upon the surfaces. It shall be so. Thus sayeth the Rules. Amen
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So far ive got 500 rounds down the tube of this Wilson Combat without a hitch. White box Winchester and Federal equal mix. I'm pretty satisfied with her!