State Trooper killed in crash - Surry

noway2 said:
Respectfully, I don't see anyone trolling or hating. I've seen expressions of sympathy for the lives lost and negatively impacted. I've seen opinions, backed with precedent and other ideals that say that these "checkpoints" are wrong and should not exist and claiming that some legislature or even a court says they are, doesn't gain them acceptance. Such is the state of our failing nation, whose days are likely numbered, and whose institutions are viewed with disgust rather than respect. I've seen derision of the policies and procedures that demand cops give chase and needlessly place themselves and others in grave and mortal danger so that they may try to maintain this air of invincibility, pride, or power. I see people recognizing that the decisions that led to this man's death and blame not being unilateral on the driver; as if the cops actions were inherently justified because they were not, but rather an unfortunate set of compounding policies and decisions.

The truth of the matter is that if they weren't engaging in these stupid checkpoints, which the people don't agree with, the man would be alive.

Call it hate, calling us animals, doesn't make it so.
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Works for the gun grabbers, why not try it here.
 
I have a hard time having sympathy for the idiot being charged with murder. There are so many idiots with no license and no insurance on the roads high on who knows what, hopefully he will be off the road for many years. I'd love to see more of them off the roads .
 
What honestly bothers me, we now have a dead Trooper because the driver had paper outstanding.
Why don't they go to the last known address and arrest the individual, I know 'we don't have the manpower'.

The murder charge could be a reason to hold him, it could be dropped to a lesser charge or not.
 
Button Pusher said:
, I know 'we don't have the manpower'.
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A quick google search turns up a 2008 statement that would say other wise.


This is a list of law enforcement agencies in the state of North Carolina. According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics' 2008 Census of State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies, the state had 504 law enforcement agencies employing 23,442sworn police officers
 
Button Pusher said:
What honestly bothers me, we now have a dead Trooper because the driver had paper outstanding.
Why don't they go to the last known address and arrest the individual, I know 'we don't have the manpower'.

The murder charge could be a reason to hold him, it could be dropped to a lesser charge or not.
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Criminals are notorious for not having stable addresses or even being honest when they tell the cops what they are. You can't judge them by your standards.
 
Mike Overlay said:
A quick google search turns up a 2008 statement that would say other wise.


This is a list of law enforcement agencies in the state of North Carolina. According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics' 2008 Census of State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies, the state had 504 law enforcement agencies employing 23,442sworn police officers
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a) that's a decade old
b) if you speak to many LEO you'll learn that many agencies are understaffed and seeking new deputies and cops.

I know that there are still many sworn officers out there, but that doesnt mean that they have enough per department
 
HMP said:
a) that's a decade old
b) if you speak to many LEO you'll learn that many agencies are understaffed and seeking new deputies and cops.

I know that there are still many sworn officers out there, but that doesnt mean that they have enough per department
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EVERY public agency and instituion is understaffed. According to them. And if asked how much more money they need the answer is always MORE. There is no end in sight to the size and scope of their desires.

Heck I always here how underfunded the military is as well. Give me a freaking break. The numbers are staggering.
 
CZfool68 said:
EVERY public agency and instituion is understaffed. According to them.
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Bingo. That is the dynamic most seem to have forgotten, that it isn't the legislature, courts, or executive agencies that get to declare what is or isn't acceptable, or where the line of "government" "enforcement" will be, but The People.
 
The problem is "We The People" are most often the ones who cause the "bloating". "The People" often scream for more police protection. They cry for more police in troubled parts of town, more police stopping riots, and yes, more police in our schools. We whine and cry because there is only one or two lines open at the DMV. Heck, I have even heard people here bemoan that there aren't enough people processing their ATF forms. So yes, agencies are always crying for more money...because people are always crying for more from them.
 
CZfool68 said:
EVERY public agency and instituion is understaffed. According to them. And if asked how much more money they need the answer is always MORE. There is no end in sight to the size and scope of their desires.

Heck I always here how underfunded the military is as well. Give me a freaking break. The numbers are staggering.
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The US spends more on it's defense budget that the next seven largest spending countries combined.
Eisenhower-MIC-01.jpg




As for the Trooper who died, prayers to his family. His death was truly tragic and totally unnecessary.
I do not believe the driver of the BMW is in any way responsible.
 
B00ger said:
The problem is "We The People" are most often the ones who cause the "bloating". "The People" often scream for more police protection. They cry for more police in troubled parts of town, more police stopping riots, and yes, more police in our schools. We whine and cry because there is only one or two lines open at the DMV. Heck, I have even heard people here bemoan that there aren't enough people processing their ATF forms. So yes, agencies are always crying for more money...because people are always crying for more from them.
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True, our public instituions do too much. Let's work on that. We can start by eliminating DMV all together. Maybe keep a few IT guys around to manage keeping records of payments, licenses and registrations. We can sell those buildings also. Won't be a need for a building or a line. We can process basic forms online pretty easily. Private driving schools can administer driving tests.

Postal service. You gone. 'Nuff said there.

Then we can eliminate PE, music, art, and sports from the schools. Plenty of private businesses and groups that can handle those things. The schools can rent out all the current fields and gyms to private companies and volunteeer groups. Combine that with eliminating all those teachers in useless fields and we could start to straighten out some budgets. And with less teachers and teams we can eliminate a few administrators somewhere. Wonder what some of these athletic directors get paid? You gone. Might even clean things up enough to pay the useful teachers more money.

And I'd say any PD that has more than a certain % of officers on traffic duty gets a massive cut as well. We can determine those %'s by jurisdiction size, road mileages and maybe populations. Obviously Charlotte is going to need more officers on traffic duty than Elkin.

In next week's episode we'll start cutting some social workers, prison guards and politicians as well. Stay tuned!
 
CZfool68 said:
True, our public instituions do too much. Let's work on that. We can start by eliminating DMV all together. Maybe keep a few IT guys around to manage keeping records of payments, licenses and registrations. We can sell those buildings also. Won't be a need for a building or a line. We can process basic forms online pretty easily. Private driving schools can administer driving tests.

Postal service. You gone. 'Nuff said there.

Then we can eliminate PE, music, art, and sports from the schools. Plenty of private businesses and groups that can handle those things. The schools can rent out all the current fields and gyms to private companies and volunteeer groups. Combine that with eliminating all those teachers in useless fields and we could start to straighten out some budgets. And with less teachers and teams we can eliminate a few administrators somewhere. Wonder what some of these athletic directors get paid? You gone. Might even clean things up enough to pay the useful teachers more money.

And I'd say any PD that has more than a certain % of officers on traffic duty gets a massive cut as well. We can determine those %'s by jurisdiction size, road mileages and maybe populations. Obviously Charlotte is going to need more officers on traffic duty than Elkin.

In next week's episode we'll start cutting some social workers, prison guards and politicians as well. Stay tuned!
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Let me be clear, I am not a supporter of the bloat. It is convincing the "people" that they cannot complain about government bloat while at the same time demanding the government to constantly "Do" more.
 
One of my local agencies are so under staffed and paid compared to other agencies the average Training Officer has about 2-3 years experience. Over the last 4 years there were two times they had more than 12 patrol openings. They have been hiring people BEFORE they go through blet with hopes they finish.
Then on the flip side we have one of the highest paid agencies probably in the state that has little turnover and are hiring something like 20 more Officers in the next year. Average training officer 7-10 years on the job.
One of the biggest issues I see is most smaller city agencies do not actively serve warrants. They instead just serve them if they run across people.
 
"We The People" have spoken through their votes as to how they want the government run. You always have the option of running for office yourself if you are unhappy with the results. The situation will not change until a majority want it to. Otherwise, continue to bellyache on the Internet or, maybe, move to Zimbabwe and see how you like that.
 
Well I got to catch the escort today while heading to get some brass.

They had police, troopers, firemen, EMS, wildlife officers, the shoe giddy up out paying respects and escorting his body.

Pretty sure that escort stretched from Elkin, to Wilkesboro. But the route I think was 421 from the State Trooper HQ here in Wilkes, down 421, back across red white blue road, then 268 to Elkin. I waited 20 minutes and like I said that was just catching the last half.
 
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Daedalus-NC said:
"We The People" have spoken through their votes as to how they want the government run. You always have the option of running for office yourself if you are unhappy with the results. The situation will not change until a majority want it to. Otherwise, continue to bellyache on the Internet or, maybe, move to Zimbabwe and see how you like that.
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If 99.9% of the populace votes to embrace security at the expense of Liberty, they don't abridge my right to free speech, or to defend my person or property, or to be secure in my papers & effects. The potential for the mob voting their way to a life of leisure on the backs of the working man is why democracy is the most evil political system imaginable.

If someone told you that sticking your finger in that light socket was universally a bad idea, would you call them a troll for saying so?
 
Daedalus-NC said:
"We The People" have spoken through their votes as to how they want the government run. You always have the option of running for office yourself if you are unhappy with the results. The situation will not change until a majority want it to. Otherwise, continue to bellyache on the Internet or, maybe, move to Zimbabwe and see how you like that.
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A young man lost his life, another one ruined his. To me, and I absolutely do see where you're coming from regarding laws and these checkpoints, voting, people on here against them, etc.... But to me, this is a tragic story of a dangerous pursuit that got a young trooper killed and it happened because of bad policy and procedure, or lack thereof...... not laws and voting.

Innocent people, including the police, get killed all the time during these high speed pursuits over non life threatening circumstances. It's ridiculous in my opinion and it needs to stop.

If they run, try to get a good look at the car and possibly a tag number, if that's not possible, let it go. If one jumps in a car thinking they're Mario Andretti and thinking the Charger they're driving is the "end all be all" of super cars, they are setting themselves up for a potential tragedy.

Those are my thoughts anyway.
 
Qball said:
A young man lost his life, another one ruined his. To me, and I absolutely do see where you're coming from regarding laws and these checkpoints, voting, people on here against them, etc.... But to me, this is a tragic story of a dangerous pursuit that got a young trooper killed and it happened because of bad policy and procedure, or lack thereof...... not laws and voting.

Innocent people, including the police, get killed all the time during these high speed pursuits over non life threatening circumstances. It's ridiculous in my opinion and it needs to stop.

If they run, try to get a good look at the car and possibly a tag number, if that's not possible, let it go. If one jumps in a car thinking they're Mario Andretti and thinking the Charger they're driving is the "end all be all" of super cars, they are setting themselves up for a potential tragedy.

Those are my thoughts anyway.
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We had a guy run from police last year. He finally stopped running and blew his own head off with a sawed off shotgun. The investigation revealed he was on his way to murder his ex and her new boyfriend. Until after the fact this was a non life threatening circumstance. would you advocate that he be allowed to continue on his mission?
 
J R Green said:
We had a guy run from police last year. He finally stopped running and blew his own head off with a sawed off shotgun. The investigation revealed he was on his way to murder his ex and her new boyfriend. Until after the fact this was a non life threatening circumstance. would you advocate that he be allowed to continue on his mission?
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Appeal to Extremes
Description: Erroneously attempting to make a reasonable argument into an absurd one, by taking the argument to the extremes.



I am sure somewhere along the way a Nazi SS officer saved a kitten
 
J R Green said:
We had a guy run from police last year. He finally stopped running and blew his own head off with a sawed off shotgun. The investigation revealed he was on his way to murder his ex and her new boyfriend. Until after the fact this was a non life threatening circumstance. would you advocate that he be allowed to continue on his mission?
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It depends. What were the circumstances that precipitated the chase? If there was a warrant for threats to people or any other thing related to violence, then my answer is "No".

However, if he was eluding after being lit up for running a stop sign or something similar, then my answer is "Yes".

Call in for some help ahead of the driver's location. Get a chopper in the air. Just don't go racing down the road at insane speeds when there is no information available as to why the driver is eluding.

Innocent people, completely removed from these pursuits, get maimed or killed. It happens too many times.
 
Based on some new information that I received a little while ago from a very well-respected member of our forum here, it appears that the deceased trooper in this story is a hero.

It seems that he avoided a vehicle unrelated to the pursuit and crashed his patrol car in the process of avoiding hurting or killing innocent person(s) that were not involved in said pursuit.

If this is fact, then in my opinion, he should be posthumously awarded a medal and it should be presented to his surviving family.

I still don't agree with these high speed pursuits. But in this case, it appears this young man sacrificed himself to avoid hurting others.
 
J R Green said:
We had a guy run from police last year. He finally stopped running and blew his own head off with a sawed off shotgun. The investigation revealed he was on his way to murder his ex and her new boyfriend. Until after the fact this was a non life threatening circumstance. would you advocate that he be allowed to continue on his mission?
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Guess that depends how many people they may endanger on the way right? What if they crash into a mini can with a Mom and 5 kids? Are their lives worth it?
 
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Daedalus-NC said:
"We The People" have spoken through their votes as to how they want the government run. You always have the option of running for office yourself if you are unhappy with the results. The situation will not change until a majority want it to. Otherwise, continue to bellyache on the Internet or, maybe, move to Zimbabwe and see how you like that.
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Votes, oh please. The People aren't what are getting the representation and you know it.
 
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How about an example of law enforcement doing what they're ordered, rather than what is right and just? Think these bobbies are heroes? It's "legal" what they're doing, abducting this man for the crime of reporting on Musloid rape gangs. Legal, but no less despicable than chilling citizens' right to privacy and to travel freely.

Video in Tortuga.

Communist police state. No, it'd never happen here...
 
Qball said:
A young man lost his life, another one ruined his. To me, and I absolutely do see where you're coming from regarding laws and these checkpoints, voting, people on here against them, etc.... But to me, this is a tragic story of a dangerous pursuit that got a young trooper killed and it happened because of bad policy and procedure, or lack thereof...... not laws and voting.

Innocent people, including the police, get killed all the time during these high speed pursuits over non life threatening circumstances. It's ridiculous in my opinion and it needs to stop.

If they run, try to get a good look at the car and possibly a tag number, if that's not possible, let it go. If one jumps in a car thinking they're Mario Andretti and thinking the Charger they're driving is the "end all be all" of super cars, they are setting themselves up for a potential tragedy.

Those are my thoughts anyway.
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I agree. I think high speed chases should be very limited. 9 times out of 10 I bet they either already know the guy or will encounter them again very soon. Even if they do catch them, they let them right back out anyway. I don't think they are worth the risk in most cases.
 
SPST said:
I agree. I think high speed chases should be very limited. 9 times out of 10 I bet they either already know the guy or will encounter them again very soon. Even if they do catch them, they let them right back out anyway. I don't think they are worth the risk in most cases.
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Fwiw, you were in my thoughts when I posted that, because I know you have a son who is an LEO. Somebody out there lost a son when this crash occurred.
 
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