Steel case ammo question
- Thread starter Imaduckin
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I’ve shot probably 95-98% steel for the past 10yr and no issues. I’ve shot some lacquered stuff, some zinc coated, but mostly polymer coated. Both suppressed and unsupressed, multiple barrel lengths and mfgs.
Same, same.
I have a bcm mid length that’s got probably 3k plus of Tula and wolf through it. The last 1500 or more with out cleaning. All I’ve done is oil the bcg. I will not own an ar that doesn’t run steel cases ammo.
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IrishCannon
Fight hard.
I used to shoot it all the time when the price gap between steel and brass was huge.
Now not as much, but not for any reason other than the cost/benefit doesn't much exist right now to any great degree. It used to be about half what brass is. Now they seem to be within ~$75 of each other.
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Now not as much, but not for any reason other than the cost/benefit doesn't much exist right now to any great degree. It used to be about half what brass is. Now they seem to be within ~$75 of each other.
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I did the same with an LMT carbine years ago and made it to a little over 1100rd before getting a malfunction, simple FTE iirc. That things was dirrrrrty when I pulled it all apart that night!
No problems.
georgel
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First, as mentioned, if your gun won't shoot steel, fix it until it does.
Now, the reason steel can be an issue is because, well, it's steel. But, not for the seemingly obvious reasons. It's not harder. I even think someone determined it actually softer than brass, but I'm not sure. The issue is elasticity or obturation rate. Basically, how fast it expands and contracts. When a round is discharged in the chamber, the case expands against the chamber walls and creates a seal. Then as the pressure declines, the case shrinks or bounces back to a smaller size. Steel does this at a slower rate than brass. This explains why some people complain about sootiness in the chamber area when shooting steel case. The steel doesn't always expand quickly enough to seal the chamber against blowback. The dirty chambers can add to friction and wear during extraction. Which brings us to steel being slower to return to a smaller case size and therefore slower at releasing itself from the chamber walls. In short gassed systems (carbine) extraction already occurs during a peak pressure time. Longer systems are usually past peak pressure. But, because the steel is slower to return to a smaller size, they are being extracted while often still sealed against the chamber walls. This is what puts wear and tear on the extractors and why you hear some complaing about steel case breaking extractors, not because the case itself it hard on the extractor. The extractors are trying to pull a case out of the chamber before the case is ready to go.
I had a .45 Officer's Model that demonstrated this issue clearly when shooting steel case ammo. It would often try to feed a round into the back of a spent case in the chamber. The case was not "stuck" per se, because you could tip the gun and it would fall out. An Officer's Model has a very fast slide cycle time compared to a full size or even Commander size gun. Upon firing the gun, the slide would cycle, but the extractor was popping over the rim of the fired case, because it was still expanded against the chamber walls. The slide continued to the rear and then coming forward, picked up another round and feed it into the back of the fired case in the chamber. First time it happened, I though, great, stuck case in the chamber. But, after removing the magazine and misfed round, the fired case fell out of the chamber, having returned to unpressurized state. Subsequent checking showed that case could be dropped in the chamber and "poured" back out. That same ammo worked fine in a full sized 1911.
Anyway, just wanted to give some background info. Yes, you can shoot steel, but just be aware of the additional factors that influence wear and potential malfunctions. Especially, if you have a short gas system. Keep the chamber clean and keep a spare extractor.
Now, the reason steel can be an issue is because, well, it's steel. But, not for the seemingly obvious reasons. It's not harder. I even think someone determined it actually softer than brass, but I'm not sure. The issue is elasticity or obturation rate. Basically, how fast it expands and contracts. When a round is discharged in the chamber, the case expands against the chamber walls and creates a seal. Then as the pressure declines, the case shrinks or bounces back to a smaller size. Steel does this at a slower rate than brass. This explains why some people complain about sootiness in the chamber area when shooting steel case. The steel doesn't always expand quickly enough to seal the chamber against blowback. The dirty chambers can add to friction and wear during extraction. Which brings us to steel being slower to return to a smaller case size and therefore slower at releasing itself from the chamber walls. In short gassed systems (carbine) extraction already occurs during a peak pressure time. Longer systems are usually past peak pressure. But, because the steel is slower to return to a smaller size, they are being extracted while often still sealed against the chamber walls. This is what puts wear and tear on the extractors and why you hear some complaing about steel case breaking extractors, not because the case itself it hard on the extractor. The extractors are trying to pull a case out of the chamber before the case is ready to go.
I had a .45 Officer's Model that demonstrated this issue clearly when shooting steel case ammo. It would often try to feed a round into the back of a spent case in the chamber. The case was not "stuck" per se, because you could tip the gun and it would fall out. An Officer's Model has a very fast slide cycle time compared to a full size or even Commander size gun. Upon firing the gun, the slide would cycle, but the extractor was popping over the rim of the fired case, because it was still expanded against the chamber walls. The slide continued to the rear and then coming forward, picked up another round and feed it into the back of the fired case in the chamber. First time it happened, I though, great, stuck case in the chamber. But, after removing the magazine and misfed round, the fired case fell out of the chamber, having returned to unpressurized state. Subsequent checking showed that case could be dropped in the chamber and "poured" back out. That same ammo worked fine in a full sized 1911.
Anyway, just wanted to give some background info. Yes, you can shoot steel, but just be aware of the additional factors that influence wear and potential malfunctions. Especially, if you have a short gas system. Keep the chamber clean and keep a spare extractor.
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Havent used steel cased in an ar since 2000.
Had issues with primers coming out and getting jammed in the fcg.
Rifle was a new (at the time) bushmaster.
Switched to q3131 and had no issues.
Never bought steel again.
Had issues with primers coming out and getting jammed in the fcg.
Rifle was a new (at the time) bushmaster.
Switched to q3131 and had no issues.
Never bought steel again.
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I shoot steel all the time. I like to stand close to the tree line and let the cases fly into the woods so I don't have to pick them up. Just let nature recycle them into rust.
I've never had any issue with weapon function. I have shot some very poor quality ammunition before though, both steel and brass.
I've never had any issue with weapon function. I have shot some very poor quality ammunition before though, both steel and brass.
OP
Imaduckin
Well-Known Member
thanks for the replies fellas, have not used steel in my AR yet, but had concerns of stuck cases and especially damaged extractor or bolt if i did. at current prices of steel vs brass its not that much of a saving to use steel. Maybe if prices go more into harmony in the future it would be worth the risk i guess
All the time! No issues in any AR. My only issues are with a KelTec RDB. It runs, but you have to turn the gas up for proper action. If you don't turn it up (easily done via a knurled knob), you get FTE at times. Once gas is increased, no issues. When switching back to brass, you can turn it back down. You can run the brass at the higher gas setting, but I don't want it beating the gun up.
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I've gotten steel to stick in a cold dirty as hell ar chamber a few times on a first shot but for not duty ammo that's perfectly fine. And I really do mean a handful out of thousands of rounds.
NEVER shoot steel ammo in Any Rifle....if you have already bought and have an accumulated amount you MUST not Fire it in ANY Rifle!!!!
Bring it ALL here and WE will dispose of it properly........................No Charge..........................
Bring it ALL here and WE will dispose of it properly........................No Charge..........................
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Imaduckin
Well-Known Member
lol, any other person may have not seen the gist in your comment sir
My ARs have chrome plated barrels and have always worked fine with steel, but past training compells me to keep them clean so whether it is the chromed chamber or clean rifle that allows them to function steel I can't say.
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I prefer brass. But I'll take whatever I can get.
I have rifles I won't use it in. Mostly because I have rifles I will use it in.
It's hard to beat for action shooting and practice in bays and lost brass matches that don't require super accuracy.
I have rifles I won't use it in. Mostly because I have rifles I will use it in.
It's hard to beat for action shooting and practice in bays and lost brass matches that don't require super accuracy.
There was a test done a while back by some dudes on YouTube where they abused the snot out of some ARs and showed how steel cased ammo compares to brass as far as wear and tear on a firearm.
The short version was “yes, it can wear your firearm out faster than brass.” But what wasn’t really delved into was that, at the time, steel cased ammo was 20-30% cheaper at least. Also, they were pounding thousands of rounds through the firearms with very little cleaning and maintenance. So while they did get results that are worth noting, there are a lot of caveats that they pass over.
One should always, as a good marksman, choose the best round for the job you are trying to complete. Distance accuracy? Steel ain’t the best. Self defense? Steel ain’t the best. Making fun go bang bang bang pew pew a lot? It’s awesome.
With all that said, I prefer brass ammo. But I won’t hesitate to pick up steel at any chance I get.
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The short version was “yes, it can wear your firearm out faster than brass.” But what wasn’t really delved into was that, at the time, steel cased ammo was 20-30% cheaper at least. Also, they were pounding thousands of rounds through the firearms with very little cleaning and maintenance. So while they did get results that are worth noting, there are a lot of caveats that they pass over.
One should always, as a good marksman, choose the best round for the job you are trying to complete. Distance accuracy? Steel ain’t the best. Self defense? Steel ain’t the best. Making fun go bang bang bang pew pew a lot? It’s awesome.
With all that said, I prefer brass ammo. But I won’t hesitate to pick up steel at any chance I get.
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