Trailboss and 125gr Berry's plated HP in 357

Jayne

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Reloading for the new 357 wheel gun, looking to make some light plinking loads.

Research seems to say that 4.5gr of Trail Boss under a 125gr Berry's plated HP should work. Berry says treat them like cast, the Hodgdon web site shows 3.5gr - 5.3gr as the load range for 125gr lead, and just by eyeball the 4.5gr looks to fill the case 75% without really compressing the powder down.

The barrel in the manual says it's 10"... mine is 2".

If they chonro too fast I can slow them down a touch, they just have to make holes in paper / knock down some plates.

Using assorted once fired brass, mostly Winchester but some RP and GFL.

Comments? Other than @Slacker saying I'm wasting powder with such a short barrel.



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The way I treat Trailboss is to measure where the base of the bullet will be when seated, then fill the case up to that point with Trailboss. Weigh the powder, and that will be your max load. You will basically be filling the volume inside the case without compressing the powder. You can take the max weight and drop it 10% and start there.
 
The way I treat Trailboss is to measure where the base of the bullet will be when seated, then fill the case up to that point with Trailboss. Weigh the powder, and that will be your max load. You will basically be filling the volume inside the case without compressing the powder. You can take the max weight and drop it 10% and start there.

It's such a fluffy powder, I figured compression may help with SD numbers.
Any first hand experience compressing it?
 
No, but everything I've heard about it is that you don't want to compress it.
 
The "fluff" was to keep from double charging a round. Bad juju if you try stuffing more than what's called for. Think double charge of Bullseye.


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4.5gr of Trailboss got me 95% of a factory 38 special level of performance (chrono data is in another thread). The goal is to be even lighter, so I'll drop it to 4.0gr and then down to 3.5gr which I think is the 38 special starting load with the 125gr.
 
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Chrono data from the last test. It's good to see that the winchester 38 factory load I used for the baseline didn't change much between sessions (these were on two different days) and the 4.5gr handload also stayed the same.

The 3.5gr load is really mild, putting out 61% as much energy as the factory 38 special load and still has reasonable accuracy at 10 yards. Going to try some at 3.3gr just for grins, and to make sure that if I don't get consistent metering out of the powder drop when I make these in bulk that nothing funky happens if the charge is off by a bit. This powder is very 'fluffy', not sure how it will meter.

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I ran some 3.3gr loads over the chrono today, down to ~51% of the factory 38 special load at 525 fps. SD was pretty extreme though, getting a 10-12% spread between high/low, I think the powder density in the case is too low.

I fired 50 of the 3.5gr variant against the plate rack (because that's all I had!), pretty easy to control even in the small gun. I think I'll stick with that charge, better consistency overall.
 
I ran some 3.3gr loads over the chrono today, down to ~51% of the factory 38 special load at 525 fps. SD was pretty extreme though, getting a 10-12% spread between high/low, I think the powder density in the case is too low.

I fired 50 of the 3.5gr variant against the plate rack (because that's all I had!), pretty easy to control even in the small gun. I think I'll stick with that charge, better consistency overall.
I'm curious what the 3.3gn loads would do with magnum primers. I saw very large extreme spread in some small primer 45acp loads, small magnum primers worked much better.
 
Why are you re-inventing the wheel? Why not the tried and true 2.7gr. of Bullseye over a 147gr. wadcutter? (or there abouts) Proven reliable and accurate. I've been meaning to experiment with some of the plated DEWC bullets.
 
What do you reckon it’s costing you per round?
 
Why are you re-inventing the wheel? Why not the tried and true 2.7gr. of Bullseye over a 147gr. wadcutter? (or there abouts) Proven reliable and accurate. I've been meaning to experiment with some of the plated DEWC bullets.

Because I can? It's a hobby, trying stuff and seeing what works is what I do with reloading now.
 
What do you reckon it’s costing you per round?

13 cents or so since I had the brass. Paying retail basically for the bullets; powder and primer came from one of the better vendors at the last gun show. At the volumes I'm shooting (only 308 rounds through the gun so far) it's not really about cost savings, it's about fiddling and seeing what I can do.

I know lots of guys shoot lead, I refuse to do so if there is an option, and this is an option.
 
Thanks for that. I was asking NOT to send a thinly veiled message about comparing your cost with buying rounds.

Instead, I'm shooting a pretty significant quantity of .38 and expect to continue at least for the balance of this year. The best I've found for brass FMJ ammo is 25 cents with tax from Outdoor Limited. In fact, I'm just about ready to click on my cart there. I've never had any serious interest in reloading (not even sure I've got a place to do it if I were) but the prospect of saving $10 or $15 every time I hit the range (2 or 3 boxes times 10 cents/round) has me pondering. ;)
 
Because I can? It's a hobby, trying stuff and seeing what works is what I do with reloading now.
Ok, that's cool. I'd still look at the traditional load with one of the newer plated wadcutters though. The wadcutters, by nature of design, help bridge the gap from the cylinder to the forcing cone, increasing accuracy and the fast burning bullseye helps accommodate the short barrel. Also, the wadcutter load makes a dandy low power defensive/small game load. Been meaning to work up a load like that myself for an everyday around the farm load. Kinda of an updated wadcutter target load with plated bullets and maybe a different fast burning powder if I can find one that's cleaner. It's at about 1065 on my list of things to do.

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https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...meter-148-grain-plated-double-ended-wadcutter
 
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Instead, I'm shooting a pretty significant quantity of .38 and expect to continue at least for the balance of this year. The best I've found for brass FMJ ammo is 25 cents with tax from Outdoor Limited.

High volume shooting of any caliber makes reloading make economic sense.... eventually. I do everything on a single stage now (got rid of my Dillon 650 long ago) so I only reload for the low volume stuff like this, or where I want more accuracy (308 bolt guns) than I'm wiling to pay for with match ammo.

You have to figure out your labor rate to really see if saving money is right. If you end up making $5/hr in savings reloading slowly it may not be worth the time vs. spending that time doing anything else. Or if you spend money on all the coolest progressive and crank out 1000 rounds really fast and then take 6 months to shoot them, your reloading equipment investment will take forever to pay off. Easier with high cost calibers like 38/357/223, but if you're trying to reload 9mm to save money on a progressive you need to be shooting about 2k rounds a month for a year to get the ROI.... not counting your labor.
 
Thanks for that explanation @Jayne. You gave me the motivation to click “Buy”. ;)
 
Thanks for that explanation @Jayne. You gave me the motivation to click “Buy”. ;)

Wonder if I can get outdoor limited to give me a commission on the sale?

Eventually though you might just wander into reloading because it's it's own reward.
 
Ok, that's cool. I'd still look at the traditional load with one of the newer plated wadcutters though.

I've got a box of those plated wadcutters in my cart at midway now (along with some other experiments). As soon as I get a free shipping coupon from them I'll get 'em ordered up.
 
I've got a box of those plated wadcutters in my cart at midway now (along with some other experiments). As soon as I get a free shipping coupon from them I'll get 'em ordered up.
Cool. Let us know how they work for you. Been wanting to get some. Don't over drive them. Use target based loading data.

Many years ago, first time out with a new 4" Colt Diamondback at a new range, they had an "8 gong at 50yds. it really wasn't a gong per se, bullets splatted when you hit it. After firing a cylinder full, I turned to a fellow shooter and asked if I was hitting anywhere close because I wasn't seeing dirt kick up from the berm and didn't hear ringing from the gong. He said that gong was thick and solid and didn't ring, but every round I fired hit the gong. Those were locally manufactured 147gr wadcutters (lead) over 2.7 grains of Bulleseye. ;)
 
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I've got a box of those plated wadcutters in my cart at midway now (along with some other experiments). As soon as I get a free shipping coupon from them I'll get 'em ordered up.
FSJUNE19 ;)
 
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The SD of these rounds is really bad, in the low 50s in some batches so I'm going to test seating the bullets a little further. Not to compress the load, but just to remove some of the surplus case volume to see if it makes them a little more consistent.

As always I'll test in batches alternating between the test load and the baseline to try to eliminate any variables.

Also, and this is probably not necessary but I'm doing it anyway, I've marked one of the chambers on the LCR so I'm always firing them out of the cylinder in the same chamber order. Just curious if some of the holes are more equal than others.
 
With the bullets set further back, the velocity went up 8%, but the SD was reduced by 25%. I'm hand charging these on a scale, so the powder load is consistent but the SD is still wonky compared to all my other loads. Maybe that's just how this powder burns.
 
Wonder if I can get outdoor limited to give me a commission on the sale?

Eventually though you might just wander into reloading because it's it's own reward.

Plus you get to buy new cool stuff(s)!

It's fun and satisfying to MAKE things
 
We have had great luck here with Extreme plated wads in all calibers. We run Bulls Eye for all accuracy trials. If you have brass the cost is close to $80 a thousand for 38s.
 
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