Training

Daleo8803

Move along, move along
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Ok guys. I have been shooting for a while. My dad started me out on a BB gun when I was 4. Got my own BB gun when I was 8, a 22 when I was 10 and learned how to use a handgun when I was 12. I have been shooting ever since. I shoot in steel challenge, idpa, uspsa and I have done a few 2 guns.

What drills do you recommend for close quarters? Just keep practicing drawing from concealed and reloads? I'm on my churchs small team that carry in the church. I'm wanting to be prepared as best as possible.

Is there a class in SC or NC that I should look into taking? I do have a CWP.

I hope this doesn't come off as strange but I take it very serious that I have been asked to protect my church family. Any recommendations that will help me do that better are greatly appreciated. Thanks

Any good articles I should read?
 
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Practice shooting with your off or weak hand.
Practice shooting with one hand, strong and weak.
Practice shooting while moving.
Run 25 yards, then stop and shoot.
Practice drawing and shooting while seated.
We practice some of the above every week. Standing still and shooting is good practice but if bad stuff does happen, I doubt if it will be stand and shoot.
 
Practice shooting with your off or weak hand.
Practice shooting with one hand, strong and weak.
Practice shooting while moving.
Run 25 yards, then stop and shoot.
Practice drawing and shooting while seated.
We practice some of the above every week. Standing still and shooting is good practice but if bad stuff does happen, I doubt if it will be stand and shoot.
Sounds like very sound advice actually advice I'll take to heart thanks for the input, stuff I should be doing/doing more often...
 
You're in Rock Hill. There is an IDPA event staged at Pappy's Range over in Edgemore. (Second Saturday every month as I remember) I think it's about 8-10 miles from Rock Hill. You can shoot the first event without membership, and the fee is $15 iirc.

Great experience for practicing a safe draw, shooting on the move, shooting behind cover. The RO will be very helpful in pointing out your strengths and weaknesses. There are always IDPA practices at Sportsmen's in Rock Hill most every week.
 
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Shoot more matches! I'm not the best shooter but definitely consider myself better than the average goober. I wouldn't be half the shooter I am without having shot competitively for several years. It's not the game that necessarily makes you better, it's the required repetitions within the game that almost forces you to get better.
 
I think you should take an advanced concealed carry class that actually does scenario work. @JBoyette 's class is good. I think Frankie McRae has a class at 37psr. I'm sure there are trainers closer to you if you look for them. Matches are great and I learn something when I do them. But I also think instruction is good because it is hard to learn what you don't know. It is also eye opening when you do a force on force scenario how fast things can happen.
 
Go to Gunsite, take the 250 class for starters.
 
How deep are your pockets? There's the Vickers/Hackathorn class this spring, Vogel Dynamics comes through the Carolinas fairly regular, many of the guys BCM lists here travel through offering training http://bravocompanymfg.com/gunfighters/index.php . Northern Red is out of Aberdeen, not sure they do civ stuff anymore. Trace Armory is local, Frontline defense runs classes, Defensive Concepts, NC is full of trainers, and opinions, so pick one and search reviews or ask about them.

I don't think competition is a substitute for tactics training, but rounds downrange and firearms confidence can't hurt. Come shoot PHA's defensive pistol match, @BAMaverick the MD, really enjoys helping people do better. 120ish rounds, $10 bucks, doesn't burn your whole day, shooting carry gun from concealment encouraged not required, easy time + scoring, what's not to love? Bring yourself, or bring your whole security team 4th Saturdays.

Drills, I dunno, cruise youTube, and/or take competition drills and modify them to shoot more leaning, kneeling, moving, one handed, set up intermediate barriers and/or no shoots very close to/in the line of sight so you have to think in three dimensions not just me--->target. Run a timer, run to shooting positions, anything you can do safely to add stress. The trend I see in defensive stuff is to focus almost exclusively on close stuff, I'd never suggest you ignore it, but think about where your team works, most churches have pretty large open spaces, inside and out, don't neglect distance, don't neglect malfunctions either.
 
I’ve been to quite a few schools from Ohio to Georgia to Texas and even Oregon. My favorite is TDI in southern Ohio where I have been visiting since the mid 90’s when I first got my CHP and will say Benner and his crew are excellent for handgun and carbine. I have taken my wife for Pistol 1-3 and last year took my kid for 1-3. Last time they made me run the whole weekend weak hand ... gave me a left handed holster to use and all.

I also will also put Chris and Defensive Concepts out of Carthage up there for both handgun and carbine instruction. His technique is very complementary to what I have learned and am able to do. Like TDI his stuff is geared to defense and such so they tend to see what the person is capable of and work with that ... the line “I ain't as good as I once was
but I'm as good once as I ever was” is really ringing true since I broke 50 and they understand it.

http://defensiveconceptsnc.com/
https://tdiohio.com/

The main thing for me is I don’t like standing still shooting a static piece of paper ... if there is a local class I’ll try it just to knock the rust off and no matter what I always see at least another instructor’s view. A few times the instructor would shed new light on things and I’d add another little piece to my thoughts. Sometime there would be another older student who would do something that the instructor would show how another way would help and I’d file that away. To me taking a mid level course over each year is worth it so as I age and my body slows I can adapt ... I don’t have to go all out operator level to learn and in fact come out better since I am able to work the whole time without hurting myself and sharpen up skills that have gotten rusty.
 
Dry fire is one of the best practice techniques you can utilize.

Make a one inch black dot on a piece of paper and tape it to the wall at chest height about 7 ft away (if possible, closer is fine).

Unload and clear your pistol. If you have a snap cap use it, if not its not a big deal. Place you firearm in the holster you will be using unloaded but cocked and ready. If you will be carrying concealed make sure that you have it the way that you will be carrying it, covered by an article of clothing.

Stand in front of the dot, draw, present, aim and pull the trigger. Rack the action and reholster. Repeat.

Start off slow. Remember slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Think of the steps in numbers.

1) Uncover the firearm and place your draw hand on the weapon

2) draw and Clear the holster

3) Rotate the firearm toward the target

4) Push the firearm forward, indexing with your support hand

5) pick up the front site as the weapon comes into view and aim at the dot

6) fire


This is the one technique that is IMO the most important to self defense. Practice it over and over until your muscle memory will have the gun in your hand and pointed at the threat before you even have to think about it.
 
I do a lot of these types of drill that you’re asking about. Some of my favorites are a 5x5 drill and el presidente. This is a really good deal from Kyle Defoor to try out, if you’re able to move around on your range.
 
Fortunately I can shoot at home. I try to put in 25 rounds of week with one gun of my choosing. Like @Geezer does, I try to mix it up. Movement, weak hand, one hand, laying on your back, laying on your side, shooting around a barrier, shooting after a sprint, reloading, drawing from concealment, exit the vehicle, draw and fire (don't forget the parking break,) etc...
 
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And while you're doing all this high speed, low drag training from all of the over qualified Seal, Spec OP, So Secret I can't tell you trainers don't forget to stroke a check to the insurance company to cover your ass when the SHTF during church and a bystander gets hit/killed/scared because you didn't protect them sufficiently. Or not.........

In all seriousness, the position may give you the warm and fuzzies 'cause you're doing what you see as a noble deed for your fellow church goers, but it comes with a TON of liability attached, proceed with caution...
 
And while you're doing all this high speed, low drag training from all of the over qualified Seal, Spec OP, So Secret I can't tell you trainers don't forget to stroke a check to the insurance company to cover your ass when the SHTF during church and a bystander gets hit/killed/scared because you didn't protect them sufficiently. Or not.........

Maybe he should just go running with you.
 
I have learned a ton from the comps at PHA with BAMaverick for sure. Another thing that has really changed my perception of defensive shootings is watching the YouTube channel Active Self Protection. There are certain things that happen in the vast majority of shootings and the narrator/trainer very concisely describes what went right and wrong in each situation.
 
You're in Rock Hill. There is an IDPA event staged at Pappy's Range over in Edgemore. (Second Saturday every month as I remember) I think it's about 8-10 miles from Rock Hill. You can shoot the first event without membership, and the fee is $15 iirc.

Great experience for practicing a safe draw, shooting on the move, shooting behind cover. The RO will be very helpful in pointing out your strengths and weaknesses. There are always IDPA practices at Sportsmen's in Rock Hill most every week.

Just please don't forget that IDPA is a game, it is not training. Gun games are skills test. Spend the money and seek some professional training.
 
If I'm reviving what is considered an old dead thread I apologize.
I just wanted to thank all those that replied with info, suggestions and links.

I would consider my wife and myself maybe a tick more than beginner shooters.
We both can stand stationary and put rounds on target and that's about it.
We can't shoot at home and our schedules don't jive which makes it difficult to even get to a range. And we don't have deep pockets.
We've put the cart in front of the horse and taken the class and are getting our CC permits,
but neither of us are prepared to carry. And I haven't put much effort into finding classes or training.
But I realize the time is now, and will get started soon.
Prolly with suggestions from this thread.
Thanks everyone and thanks for letting a novice hang out and benefit.
 
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If I'm reviving what is considered an old dead thread I apologize.
I just wanted to thank all those that replied with info, suggestions and links.

I would consider my wife and myself maybe a tick more than beginner shooters.
We both can stand stationary and put rounds on target and that's about it.
We can't shoot at home and our schedules don't jive which makes it difficult to even get to a range. And we don't have deep pockets.
We've put the cart in front of the horse and taken the class and are getting our CC permits,
but neither of us are prepared to carry. And I haven't put much effort into finding classes or training.
But I realize the time is now, and will get started soon.
Prolly with suggestions from this thread.
Thanks everyone and thanks for letting a novice hang out and benefit.

Just to respond to your post, I personally feel good training from a professional is always a great idea, BUT, don't let that deter you from not carrying your gun either. The opposite can also happen where someone is so convinced they need a spec op 25yr swat veteran to take 2k of their money before they are ready to protect their family. Get VERY comfortable with your gun, go buy 1k rounds and shoot it. Take whatever class you can afford to take, but you don't HAVE to take all this training to be confident protecting your family. If you're getting robbed in a parking lot then knowing how to clear a room or run a Mozambique drill isnt going to do anything for you. Just my .02
 
There's been mention that shooting matches is not training. I see the point. It's not training for a gunfight necessarily.
But it is serious gun training on a clock with some pressure. It will teach you how to draw, how to shoot accurately, often with no shoots (hostages). It will teach you how to move and fire a gun safely with a bunch people standing around. It will teach you reloads.
Not going to teach you how to deal with violence and incoming fire, but it will teach you many things.


And: slow is just slow, lol.

Just my non expert opinion!
 
I'm less of an expert than @NKD is but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

@svtf150 ,

Training is a great idea but I don't think you need to have some kind of certificate level training to start carrying. A basic level of competence to not be a danger to others and common sense at avoiding bad situations will get you far.

IMO these are good skills for carrying for personal protection aka if you can do these you are doing ok for a beginner.

General skills
1. Be able to recognize threats and be aware of your surroundings.
2. Practice avoidance of bad situations.
3. Know when it is legal to use your weapon and when it is not.
4. Practice deescalation if possible.

actual gun skills
5. Be able to draw your weapon proficiently.
6. Be able to reload your weapon.
7. Be able to hit your target.
8. Be able to holster your weapon.

Practice and training can help with all of these but for most of us, if you are good at 1 and 2, you won't have to use 5.
 
Lots of good stuff here. Thanks to the OP to start the conversation and others who have contributed.

I see the OPs quest much the same as my own. Protect the flock (my family). Luckily I have a close and talented friend with much more knowledge and training than myself. His personal range is epic and only about 15 minutes from me. I don't get to play enough but anything uncomfortable with an accelerated heart rate seems to be some of the best "training" I've had.

As with anything getting out of the comfort zone allows for the most growth.
 
Okay, after reading yall's responses I realize maybe I underated myself saying "I was a tick more than a beginner"
Maybe I'm three or four ticks more! But don't get me wrong, not over-confident by any means.

@Love2shoot
Thanks for putting that out there cause I kinda feel like I don't "have" to get formal training. I just thought that it would be a good idea.
When I bought and started shooting my pistol there wasn't anyone around to guide me, show me what I might be doing wrong,
how I could improve or do better, etc. Right way vs wrong way...I just bought a pistol and some ammo and ready, set, go. I'm shooting.
Havn't shot myself or anyone else, so far so good!
That was a few years ago, I shot regularly cause I was in a location where I could do what I wanted when I wanted. But that changed and guns got put away and weren't so much a priority anymore.
And now they have become a priority once again. I really had no doubt that I would pass the proficiency part of the CC class.

@NKD
I could see myself down the road maybe trying something like that. I've been known to be a little competitive and it sounds to me like the added stress could only be a plus, as I can't imagine how I could induce similar stress on myself. Except maybe by using a timer when practicing certain drills.

@Climberman
Thanks for your vote of confidence.
And to give you my assessment of myself based on your skills list:
#1. No problem
#2. No problem (When on my time. When at work different story) The reason I decided to go ahead and get my CHP.
#3. Pretty good on this one as well.
#4. Not so much
#5. Have not committed to any one gun as my EDC nor how I'm gonna carry.
#6. No problem
#7. No problem if it's stationary!
#8. Refer to #5

With regards to #2, I'm a commercial driver. Used to run a delivery route during the day but couple months ago transitioned into a night position.
My travels take me to an area where drug sales are goin on just down the street, pretty good amount of vehicle traffic. Lots of foot traffic. It is and it isn't very well-lit. I've already been approached twice, once by a lone individual and the other by multiples, without incident. And I know at least one of them had a gun in his waistband. I'm there by myself Thursday and Friday nights. I keep a baseball bat between my legs while on the forklift like thats really gonna do me any good but it's better than nuthin' I guess. Definitely not comfortable.
I've seen PD pass by on only one occasion. I know if TSHTF I'm on my own.

Sorry to be so long-winded. Just hopin' y'all will see where I'm coming from.
 
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I could see myself down the road maybe trying something like that. I've been known to be a little competitive and it sounds to me like the added stress could only be a plus, as I can't imagine how I could induce similar stress on myself. Except maybe by using a timer when practicing certain drills.

You should try it. You will enjoy it and become a better shooter. I bet your wife would enjoy it, too.

As for the timer: a necessity if your intent is to improve. It will not lie to you! A good shot timer is worth every penny. They can be around 100$. But cheap aps are available that work.
 
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