USA Government Property Elephant Gun and Old Colt 380

cubrock

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.. those SA cage hunts are expensive and pointless in my opinion. But I love to kill and eat shit so if my wallet was super fat, I’d probably go eat an elephant.

Those hunts feed A LOT of people - from employing Africans to the meat from the hunts feeding entire villages.
 
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beamernc

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@Michael458, if you want to borrow a .30/06, let me know. I have a couple that were my dad's, bolt action and semi auto.
 

Michael458

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Thanks @beamernc........ (I think I figured out this @ thing HEH)....... I have 308 Winchesters, and 300 Winchesters, 300 BLK, 7.62X40, and of course good Ole 30/30 so I feel like I have .308 caliber covered good enough. Thank you however.

Back to this SA Caged hunt thing, not sure what the poster is talking about here on this thread. All those elephants are wild, in Zimbabwe and Namibia and no fences around them, so not sure what he is referring to? I have never shot a elephant in South Africa. Although some of the larger concessions that join the Kruger sometimes offer elephants as I understand. And I have seen elephants and been around them in the Kruger, never hunted of course. Just playing tourist.

@cubrock is correct about feeding entire villages with those elephant, in 24 hours a buzzard can't pick a meal from one. The local villages turn out school when an elephant is taken, they are very important source of protein and much needed. Not to mention a valuable resource for the villages, as they share in the management of their species and also share in the hunting fees.
 

rufrdr

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Thanks @beamernc........ (I think I figured out this @ thing HEH)....... I have 308 Winchesters, and 300 Winchesters, 300 BLK, 7.62X40, and of course good Ole 30/30 so I feel like I have .308 caliber covered good enough. Thank you however.

Back to this SA Caged hunt thing, not sure what the poster is talking about here on this thread. All those elephants are wild, in Zimbabwe and Namibia and no fences around them, so not sure what he is referring to? I have never shot a elephant in South Africa. Although some of the larger concessions that join the Kruger sometimes offer elephants as I understand. And I have seen elephants and been around them in the Kruger, never hunted of course. Just playing tourist.

@cubrock is correct about feeding entire villages with those elephant, in 24 hours a buzzard can't pick a meal from one. The local villages turn out school when an elephant is taken, they are very important source of protein and much needed. Not to mention a valuable resource for the villages, as they share in the management of their species and also share in the hunting fees.

I've not only seen the elephants in Kruger, I got chased about 100 yards in reverse by one pissed off male! I thought the vehicle was going to roll.
 

charliesgrave

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I'm sorry this thread has devolved into what it has OP.

FWIW, I'm also a big game hunter, and I'd have no problem with using .375, but I prefer .577 Tyrannosaur for it's knock down power. However, shot placement counts for a lot too.


Here's me with 2 kills on the outskirts of the suburbs or Nairobi. The "M72" is a backup gun in case we were charged by wild poodles.


Here's me and another hunter using AK-74's in Chernobyl with surplus Soviet night vision devices.


And here's a pic of my brother on a guided hunt using a model 70 deep in the Australian outback.
 

Crazy Carl

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I've not only seen the elephants in Kruger, I got chased about 100 yards in reverse by one pissed off male! I thought the vehicle was going to roll.

We were chased off by a young bull in Kenya. Those things are way bigger when yer on the same side of the fence & I'd want the biggest gun I could hang on to. Honestly, I'd just as soon not get close enough to one to shoot it.
 

Trevillian

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@Joshua Needham

Yeah your appraisal thread OP has kinda gone off the rails...

But man, you should take this opportunity to befriend and pick the brain of @Michael458!

If you so desire, look the dude up on the internet, outside of the forum. The modern world of what, where, how, when and why when it comes to big/dangerous game all comes back to the effort, knowledge and abilities of this one man, almost exclusively.

Being in the position you are in at your company. It would seem that you can only improve the standards for employees, guests and animals there that you are charged with keeping safe and healthy. By turning an ear to what a whole industry considers a wealth of knowledge.
 

cold1

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I'm sorry this thread has devolved into what it has OP.

FWIW, I'm also a big game hunter, and I'd have no problem with using .375, but I prefer .577 Tyrannosaur for it's knock down power. However, shot placement counts for a lot too.


Here's me with 2 kills on the outskirts of the suburbs or Nairobi. The "M72" is a backup gun in case we were charged by wild poodles.


Here's me and another hunter using AK-74's in Chernobyl with surplus Soviet night vision devices.


And here's a pic of my brother on a guided hunt using a model 70 deep in the Australian outback.


You win the internet with that post!
:D:D:D:D
 

Crazy Carl

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Testing an AR-15 chambered in B&M .458 Super Short on an assault course. It is an absolute Hammer!

View attachment 245876

Tell me more about this round? Proprietary/different bolt? Mags? Link?

I've got ARs in 5.56, 6.8SPC & .300BLK & have a spare lower laying around. Thinking I want a hammer & was kicking around either .350 Legend or .450BM.
 

Michael458

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Winchester model 70 that was property of the NC Zoo Lethal Response Team.
It is a 375H&H, and was on standby in case an elephant needed to be taken down in an emergency.

It came in a batch of less valuable guns the team traded toward updated arms.

Very strictly a curiosity on my part. They rid themselves of the Old Rifle............. What is the New Rifle they intend for this same mission? What is going to be the New Updated Dangerous Game Rifle?
Or, did they decide they no longer need this?

Honestly, just curious is all............
 

NKD

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I mean, why would he reply? Whatever he says is going to be wrong.

Posts about what we all (ignorantly) thought was an interesting gun, but apparently its a useless "girl gun" and shows clearly that anybody who doesn't have paragraphs and pictures is an idiot.

And probably uses the wrong oil on his guns!!
 

ronn47

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Very strictly a curiosity on my part. They rid themselves of the Old Rifle............. What is the New Rifle they intend for this same mission? What is going to be the New Updated Dangerous Game Rifle?
Or, did they decide they no longer need this?

Honestly, just curious is all............
Probably a dart gun being it's a .gov/environmental/teaching place.
You know, can't be killing the things, it's a bad show for the kiddos.
 

Cocked & Locked

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I mean, why would he reply? Whatever he says is going to be wrong.

Posts about what we all (ignorantly) thought was an interesting gun, but apparently its a useless "girl gun" and shows clearly that anybody who doesn't have paragraphs and pictures is an idiot.

And probably uses the wrong oil on his guns!!

I agree with you. Why would the OP even reply. He simply asked for thoughts on the $ value. Not for personal opinions on caliber, stock, muzzle brake, and certainly not for personally belittling comments.
 

Geezer

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I mean, why would he reply? Whatever he says is going to be wrong.

Posts about what we all (ignorantly) thought was an interesting gun, but apparently its a useless "girl gun" and shows clearly that anybody who doesn't have paragraphs and pictures is an idiot.

And probably uses the wrong oil on his guns!!
I agree with you. Why would the OP even reply. He simply asked for thoughts on the $ value. Not for personal opinions on caliber, stock, muzzle brake, and certainly not for personally belittling
comments.
I'll accept responsibility for starting this mess. I was merely poking @Michael458 because I know his feelings on this caliber. Michael is very passionate about his big bore rifles and cartridge/bullet development. I apologize to all involved for creating this bomb.
 

Michael458

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Sorry Josh, no offense towards you personally......... just a POS Caliber. Totally USELESS........... Elephant gun my ass.......What would you expect from the US Government, they never seen an elephant. Maybe on the Discovery Channel.......


BS....... There was NO PERSONAL belittling implied or stated from my side...... it was towards the primarily the cartridge and the intended purpose, above clearly stated Josh, of offense towards you personally!

Another party decided to make it personal.........Not me!

Sorry some of you see it that way, let me remove the offensive material............
 

NKD

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I was just joking around. Hope I didn't offend anyone.
 

OldNascar

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Lol, hang in there Michael 458, somebody will induce a post about what is the better on elephant meat, mustard or mayonnaise and then the thread will go it’s normal course on this site.
 

Tailhunter

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Some people have strong opinions on what it has taken them years to factually prove one way or another.

Its not easy to turn that off.
 

Joshua Needham

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Thanks Tailhunter, I enjoy when you join in the conversation as well. Thanks!

Now, back to this deer hunting with 300 Winchester. I have a load in 300 Winchester with that 100 Raptor, I have been wanting someone to shoot a deer with it for a couple of years, but have no takers...... With you being our deer slayer, if you wanted to take up that test mantel, I would send you a few loads to try out....??? I know you have never used a 300 Winchester on a deer, maybe you should reconsider?............. LOL... HEH... But I am not kidding... HEH.......

And when I was hunting I was not too fat, I was in pretty decent shape, but I got started early as well. I am too fat now however. I would hate to set out on much of a long track these days.........which brings us back to penis size again, my belly keeps me from even seeing mine! So I reckon I wish I could see it, but one of two things has to occur, either loose the belly, or grow a bigger one. I am not sure I will be able to accomplish either................... HEH HEH.........

Young Joshua........ My apologies for hi-jacking your thread. It was not my intention to go beyond the first few posts. It is my hope now, this morning, that you will bring some more to the table and we can have a good proper discussion concerning several of these matters. If you like, we could go over to the big bore section under rifles and have a cordial, reasonable, and logical discussion on this and other matters, I think we can all learn something and I would be very interested in talking more with you. With that said, I would like to invite you to a new thread over on big bores if you would like, just say so..........

I appreciate the extension of an olive branch. lol
Think we were talking past each other due to extreme differences in logistics.
Perhaps my labeling it as "sufficient" should have been (sufficient yet sub optimal in other settings) for better clarity.
The logistics of having a state run team is so limiting on things like pass-through in a zoo setting, and having 100lb female team members keeps larger cartridges off the table.
Optimal in a hunt, and optimal in a zoo are simply not the same thing, and that seemed to be our sticking point.
Things like having large dangerous animals tranked in a medical setting, you always need a guy with a gun in case it wakes up suddenly.
They worry much more about over penetration in the lab or into a crowd then they do about having to shoot an animal more than once if needed.
I would definitely rather carry your rifle/cartridge if I was on a elephant expedition.
 

Joshua Needham

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Very strictly a curiosity on my part. They rid themselves of the Old Rifle............. What is the New Rifle they intend for this same mission? What is going to be the New Updated Dangerous Game Rifle?
Or, did they decide they no longer need this?

Honestly, just curious is all............

They decided on the Ruger Guide gun in .375Ruger (and 30-06 for smaller targets) all with Leupold 1x4 illuminated optics.
Mostly chose it due to the reduced LOP and barrel length.
The smaller members really struggled using a full size stock, and they are potentially to be used in cramped areas if a lion wakes up during a procedure/breaches into indoor areas.
They also use 12ga Remington 870 Police Magnums with reduced LOP for more chimp size threats.
 
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pinkbunny

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They decided on the Ruger Guide gun in .375Ruger (and 30-06 for smaller targets) all with Leupold 1x4 illuminated optics.
Mostly chose it due to the reduced LOP and barrel length.
The smaller members really struggled using a full size stock, and they are potentially to be used in cramped areas if a lion wakes up during a procedure/breaches into indoor areas.
They also use 12ga Remington 870 Police Magnums with reduced LOP for more chimp size threats.
Where's Dennis Nedry when you need him to make those snazzy electronic doors?
 

Joshua Needham

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Probably a dart gun being it's a .gov/environmental/teaching place.
You know, can't be killing the things, it's a bad show for the kiddos.
The trank team is a different department.
No viable substitute currently exist for a rifle.
If they give an animal enough trank juice to stop it "quickly" it will kill it, but not fast enough to stop it in a timely manner.
Both need to be in the tool box, and are not able to substitute the other.

Trank is ideal because these animal are not cheap, and no zoo wants a Harambe incident.
That's why they have handlers that know these animals on the team.
An idiot like me might shoot a rino unnecessarily that they as handlers know will follow you back in the enclosure like a puppy if you have Romain lettuce.
 
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Michael458

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They decided on the Ruger Guide gun in .375Ruger (and 30-06 for smaller targets) all with Leupold 1x4 illuminated optics.
Mostly chose it due to the reduced LOP and barrel length.
The smaller members really struggled using a full size stock, and they are potentially to be used in cramped areas if a lion wakes up during a procedure/breaches into indoor areas.
They also use 12ga Remington 870 Police Magnums with reduced LOP for more chimp size threats.


Thanks for coming back on that.........
 
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Michael458

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You took a rifle to Africa and all you needed was lettuce! So embarrassing.


Really! Maybe that is baiting? Never shot a Rhino. Been close to them, chased by them, and have a good photo of me aiming “Empty” rifle at rhino. Made sure it was empty, did not want to shoot. I figure the photo is good enough for me to claim the Big Five...... close enough for me anyway........
 
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