Well.....this happened today... Kaboom

Namerifrats

Namerifrats

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The gun is a Cimarron MP415 Model P SAA Revolver .45 LC. Bought it new back in Dec, maybe 60 rounds through it. A friend from work and his girlfriend's son went shooting with me today, I took the 45 since neither had ever shot one. My friend's GF son shot it first, 6 rounds. No issues. Friend only wanted to put a few rounds through it since we had a lot of other stuff to shoot. So he loaded 3 rounds, first shot, gun blew up. Top strap blown upwards, cylinder split. Ruptured a round in a neighboring chamber as well. Gun is a total loss. Fortunately nobody hurt. Shooting factory ammo, never had any issues with it before. I've fired mid range reloads through it in the past, but mostly factory. All Precision One 45LC 250 Gr FMJ. Always felt normal, not loaded hot. Anyway, posting pictures below. Aggravated about the whole thing. Glad it wasn't one of my favorite gun or more expensive ones. Still $460 though. First thought was Squib when it happened. I've seen and heard a squib before. I was standing nearby while they were shooting, nothing out of the ordinary. Bullet from the cartridge that killed the gun was also lodging in the forcing cone and some lead and jacket material was pressed out of the gap area. So I needed to remove the cylinder to get the live round out. Figured I would confirm if I didn't hear a squib on the GF Son's last shot, even though I saw dust from the berm.... Tapped the distorted bullet out, sure enough just that one bullet. Destroyed case had the primer blown out and I kept all the pieces. So what do you think? Double charged factory round or what?
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I'm certain this doesn't apply to your gun because of the history you gave. I did this same kinda damage to a S&W model 29-2 once. I am as sure as I am of anything that mine was caused by cumulative effect. MANY hundreds of maximum and slightly over maximum hand loads. The best steel in the world can only stand so much. Mine was absolutely my fault.
 
Glad no one was hurt! Hate it the gun is destroyed.

It looks like the bullet was deformed by hitting the side/edge of the forcing cone. Lockup/timing issue?
 
If the bullet was left lodged in the forcing cone then all the pressure had vented elsewhere with not enough left to send it out the barrel. My instincts tell me either an overcharged cartridge or mettalurgical flaw. I think the firing pin indent in the exact center of the primer rules out the cylinder not indexing properly.
 
Windini said:
Glad no one was hurt! Hate it the gun is destroyed.

It looks like the bullet was deformed by hitting the side/edge of the forcing cone. Lockup/timing issue?
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I wondered the same. Hasn't been dropped or anything. Worked fine last time I fired it and when his GF son fired it minutes before it happened. I've done some online research on both the ammo manufacturer Precision One and Uberti/Cimaron for similar events. Haven't really found much. Reviews on the gun and manufacturer were all positive before getting it. Good reviews on Precision One ammo as well. I've always been happy with their quality in the various calibers I've used. Still have a lot of it. I like them also because they use a lot of Starline brass. I understand that things can happen though. Bad lot or product on occasion.
 
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How much of that lot of ammo do you have left? Check any remaining rounds and see if another is overcharged. Might want to contact the ammo manufacturer and see what they say. Show them the pics and give them the lot number from the ammo. They might not do anything but you will never know if you don't try.
 
Schattenreiter said:
How much of that lot of ammo do you have left? Check any remaining rounds and see if another is overcharged. Might want to contact the ammo manufacturer and see what they say. Show them the pics and give them the lot number from the ammo. They might not do anything but you will never know if you don't try.
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I thought about doing that. I have (I think) about 16 rounds left in that box and a couple other full boxes of the same. Figured P One might ask for the remaining ammo and might effect their decision to assist in the matter if I tamper with the rounds by pulling and weighing charges. Considered weighing the whole cartridges though. Case and potential bullet weight variation would effect it some, but a double charge I think would really stand out if another were in there. May not have even been a double, maybe just a hotter load. Who knows. I'll let other here add some input for a day or so. Also have this shared on another gun forum for thoughts. I have better photos I took with my DSLR and macro lens. These are all cell phone shots for the forums. I'll def document everything I can incase I have to send in the gun and or remaining ammo. I'll shoot some polite emails out to both the ammo and gun manufacturers Monday. Hoping they will be willing to help. Not wanting to cause problems or point fingers as I know things can happen with production. Would like to have my firearm replaced though. Enjoyed shooting it the times I got to. Nice to have something a little different at the range sometimes.
 
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I’d start by weighing the remaining cartridges to see if any appear to be noticeably heavy, I doubt you’ll find a second one out if spec but I’d definitely contact the ammo manufacturer because I’m betting a double charge.
 
I don't know if it was a double charge, or a misaligned front end of the cylinder.

It is possible for the firing pin to strike the middle of the primer, and for the front end of the cylinder to be misaligned. Enough to cause the bullet to stop? Who knows? It probably takes less misalignment to stop a jacketed bullet, than a lead bullet. Also, as Billy said, whatever caused the kaboom, it could have happened over time. I think it is likely that it happened over time.

Unless it was a double charge. But if it were a double charge, and not a front end misalignment, I'm thinking the bullet would have gone down the barrel.
 
I'm going with a cylinder defect. The cylinder failed before sufficient pressure had built up to push the bullet into the barrel. I very thought throat might have caused it but I doubt it, not enough rounds through it. Probably a metallurgical defect.

My 0.02 pesos.
 
Namerifrats said:
I thought about doing that. I have (I think) about 16 rounds left in that box and a couple other full boxes of the same. Figured P One might ask for the remaining ammo and might effect their decision to assist in the matter if I tamper with the rounds by pulling and weighing charges. Considered weighing the whole cartridges though. Case and potential bullet weight variation would effect it some, but a double charge I think would really stand out if another were in there. May not have even been a double, maybe just a hotter load. Who knows. I'll let other here add some input for a day or so. Also have this shared on another gun forum for thoughts. I have better photos I took with my DSLR and macro lens. These are all cell phone shots for the forums. I'll def document everything I can incase I have to send in the gun and or remaining ammo. I'll shoot some polite emails out to both the ammo and gun manufacturers Monday. Hoping they will be willing to help. Not wanting to cause problems or point fingers as I know things can happen with production. Would like to have my firearm replaced though. Enjoyed shooting it the times I got to. Nice to have something a little different at the range sometimes.
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Sorry I wasn't clear about checking the other rounds. Yes I would not recommend pulling the bullets but meant to simply weigh the remaining ones to look for a large difference in weight. Customer service can be a finicky thing but give them a chance and maybe one or the other or both will come thru for you. Good luck.
 
Italian QC process quite a bit different than ours. Glad nobody hurt!
 
cold1 said:
I'm going with a cylinder defect. The cylinder failed before sufficient pressure had built up to push the bullet into the barrel. I very thought throat might have caused it but I doubt it, not enough rounds through it. Probably a metallurgical defect.

My 0.02 pesos.
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For my .02 pesos...I like this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^makes the most "cents".
 
Have you looked at the google reviews on the ammo company. Here's a couple. Twenty Two reviews with a 3 rating.

ANDREAS
Local Guide · 33 reviews · 6 photos
3 hours ago-
Nice people, seemingly good prices. The 9mm Luger ammo I purchased does not feed well into my pistol and that pistol reads "9mm Luger" on it. Secondly, I was hurt by a casing exploding rearwards sending the explosion out of the gun, just under the slide, and across my hand. Not a good feeling.

bill
12 reviews · 1 photo
7 months ago-
Ordered 2 typed of 468 socom ammo from precision one.. both types will completely lock the bolt in a closed position when attempting to chamber a round. It locks so bad that I would
have to “mortar” the rifle to get the bolt moving and round ejected.. every other brand has worked with no prob.. so it’s DEF this brand. VERY DANGEROUS.. order at ur own risk..

Jana reviews
3 months ago-
Bought 458 SOCOM ammo and it was way out of Spec. 3 different boxes made in different months were all out of spec, the bullets would not fit into a case gauge at all. There seems to be no quality control with their ammo.
 
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Anybody wanna buy a few boxes of Precision One .38 Sp. Just yesterday, I noticed I’ve got some. :eek:
 
Jim1392 said:
Have you looked at the google reviews on the ammo company. Here's a couple. Twenty Two reviews with a 3 rating.

ANDREAS
Local Guide · 33 reviews · 6 photos
3 hours ago-
Nice people, seemingly good prices. The 9mm Luger ammo I purchased does not feed well into my pistol and that pistol reads "9mm Luger" on it. Secondly, I was hurt by a casing exploding rearwards sending the explosion out of the gun, just under the slide, and across my hand. Not a good feeling.

bill
12 reviews · 1 photo
7 months ago-
Ordered 2 typed of 468 socom ammo from precision one.. both types will completely lock the bolt in a closed position when attempting to chamber a round. It locks so bad that I would
have to “mortar” the rifle to get the bolt moving and round ejected.. every other brand has worked with no prob.. so it’s DEF this brand. VERY DANGEROUS.. order at ur own risk..

Jana reviews
3 months ago-
Bought 458 SOCOM ammo and it was way out of Spec. 3 different boxes made in different months were all out of spec, the bullets would not fit into a case gauge at all. There seems to be no quality control with their ammo.
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Didn't look at google reviews....doesn't sound good though. I've used quite a bit of P One ammo in various guns, 38Spl, 357 Magnum, 10mm, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP, 45LC, 45/70 Gov, and S&W 500 Mag. Have a good bit still on hand. It has me quite skeptical on using the rest of it. In fact I'll likely pull the magnum rounds and reload using my own powder.... I'll search around more today for reviews on the company and see how they respond to an email tomorrow.
 
Did you use your credit card to pay for the pistol? Reason I ask is most cards offer buyer protection in form of extended warranty or
if the item is damaged by you or accident, like dropping a vase or other delicate item.
Call your card issuer and ask if you have this coverage as built in benefit.

My Amex card has this. I had a customer at my Home Depot, he needed a new sink because he dropped it in the garage as new,
problem was it was sold only as a matched vanity set. $600 plus, told him the above and he called and they covered it,
he just had to email photo and copy of the new sales receipt.
 
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Can this happen if the wrong powder was used? Perhaps they loading system was not cleaned thoroughly?
 
The primer was center struck so the timing of the cylinder was correct. This revolver/cartridge combination was not designed for smokeless powder, jacketed bullets and any number of things within that scope can cause a pressure spike and do damage of this type.
 
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Any chance it could have been a cylinder stop malfunction? If it did not engage, could the cylinder rotate just a hair width from recoil allowing bullet to impact the forcing cone ? Just wondering aloud....
 
Hate that happened. But this is the reason I only trust my handloads when shooting 'hot' 45LC and other BP-era revolver cartridges. Too much room in the gas for an oopsie.
 
I have purchased Precision One ammo in .357 magnum from the Dixie Gun Show. My box of 500 rounds had 4 squibs. That's <1%, but more squibs than I have had from thousands of rounds of every caliber from every other products.
Will not buy again.
YMMV (or already did).
 
Sorry you lost a gun! Glad no one was hurt! It is hard to tell from the pics, I blew them up, do I see some discoloration of the steel from the edges of the blown cylinder indicating a possible crack that was developing?
 
Glad all are right. Contact the gun and ammo manufactures. Best of luck on the recourse.


CD
 
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Update on this. Still have not heard back from the firearm manufacturer. Ammo manufacturer email me back yesterday and requested photos. I sent them. They emailed me back again today leaving me a number and asking for me to call a representative from their company. We spoke on the phone for a bit and they are willing to replace the firearm, but did ask if I could I follow up with the firearm manufacturer first to get their thoughts and if they had reports of similar occurrences with that model firearm on their end. I agreed that was a fair request and feel the situation is being handled in a satisfactory way and in a timely manner, especially from the ammo manufacturer. I'll call the firearm manufacturer tomorrow if I haven't gotten an email reply by late morning tomorrow.
 
lonehunter said:
Sorry you lost a gun! Glad no one was hurt! It is hard to tell from the pics, I blew them up, do I see some discoloration of the steel from the edges of the blown cylinder indicating a possible crack that was developing?
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Must be the lighting or poor photo quality (cell phone images for size purposes to post here). I went over the breaks with a magnifying glass under good light looking for rust, discoloration, voids, etc. I didn't see anything like that.
 
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