what am I doing to cause a 1911 9mm to not go fully into battery on slidelock reloads...

Ive been shooting 1911s for a long long time all in 45 acp until recently when I bought the 9. What I noticed when loading the mecgar mags is that after you have loaded 7, the rounds start laying flat instead of pointing up. After the 7 round I start tapping the mag on a table and the rounds will eventually stack up correctly. I have also noticed is the 10th round is virtually coil binding the mag spring resulting in very little upward pressure holding that 10th round into correct position for proper feeding. What I am suggesting Member Field Grade is that maybe, at the match ( when your distracted) and loading your magazines is that that last couple rounds are not laying correctly and that first chambering from slide lock release the round is not angled correctly to align correctly? But at your house, you taking some more care loading the mags,, heck I don't know.. Im just throwing something out there because there appears to be a pattern. First round, fresh mag and force slide to chamber.
 
Ive been shooting 1911s for a long long time all in 45 acp until recently when I bought the 9. What I noticed when loading the mecgar mags is that after you have loaded 7, the rounds start laying flat instead of pointing up. After the 7 round I start tapping the mag on a table and the rounds will eventually stack up correctly. I have also noticed is the 10th round is virtually coil binding the mag spring resulting in very little upward pressure holding that 10th round into correct position for proper feeding. What I am suggesting Member Field Grade is that maybe, at the match ( when your distracted) and loading your magazines is that that last couple rounds are not laying correctly and that first chambering from slide lock release the round is not angled correctly to align correctly? But at your house, you taking some more care loading the mags,, heck I don't know.. Im just throwing something out there because there appears to be a pattern. First round, fresh mag and force slide to chamber.
Ok, to prove my idea. I just snuck into my gun room that's thru the master bed room to grab my gun. Woke up the wife which pissed her off, but hey ? Its for a members question, she will get over it.
So, anyways,, I grabbed a mag and a box of factory 115 gr heads and did my worst job on loading a mag that I could do. It fed the first round from slide lock perfectly. I even tried purposely to nose dive the 10 bullet, fed slick as can be.. I guess I'm out of ideas.
 
A random thought....
Is it possible that the extractor is clocked a tiny bit making the seating of the rounds a tad bit slower when sliding up the breech face?
Since it doesn't happen all the time it means that most of the time all works well.
If reloading brass, perhaps a slight burr on the rim causes the pause?
In the 1911 there are times when the slightest thing makes a difference.
In 1911s if it's not the mag then check the extractor.
 
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9mm 1911? Do tell. :p
Blasssssssssssphemy! When I hear somebody say they have a 9mm, it always comes out to me as if they say I got a Grock. Well I had one of those a few years back, I gave it away.:p:eek:
 
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Dog-piling into this topic: I have never found a 10rd 9mm single stack magazine from any manufacturer (WC, Tripp, CMC, Mec-Gar) to provide reliable feeding due to the stacking of tapered cartridge cases.

A 9mm 1911 requires a perfectly loaded mag (rounds seated against the spacer or back of the mag), rounds that are the right OAL to prevent excessive binding or wiggling in the mag tube, a perfectly fit extractor and ejector, and the right mag catch. Once you start running around and snatching mags from carriers at speed, the taper problem kicks in and the rounds move from an ideally-loaded position (usually tipping nose down).

If you're willing to give up the capacity, 9rd mags with basepads are less affected by cartridge taper, so you can get more reliable feeding even if you account for tolerance stacking in all the critical components. Alternatively, downloading to 9 rounds in a 10rd tube helps.

If you barney up and your club usually sticks to 8rd-or-fewer arrays, you're still running at a slight capacity advantage over the major SS shooters (it takes two make-up shots/steel mikes to start pushing you to slide lock during a stage plan).
 
Alternatively, downloading to 9 rounds in a 10rd tube helps.

I don't believe you can download to 9 rounds in IDPA ESP with a 9mm 1911 if the mags hold 10 rounds. You have to load to division capacity, which is 10 rounds, unless you use magazines with capacities of fewer than 10 rounds.
 
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I thought that standard, flat base, M1911 9mm mags were standard 9 rounds.
Is the 10 round mags similar to the 8 round .45ACP mags with an extended base?
 
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I don't believe you can download to 9 rounds in IDPA ESP with a 9mm 1911 if the mags hold 10 rounds. You have to load to division capacity, which is 10 rounds, unless you use magazines with capacities of fewer than 10 rounds.

I'm aware, and thanks for pointing that out (benefits everyone). That's why I recommended 9rd mags with basepads as the primary quick fix for dealing with cartridge taper-related feeding issues.

Practically, I've yet to meet an MD that would get on you if you explained that your gun feeds more reliably downloaded so long as you kept the same capacity loaded each match. It's not really an advantage in a game where the courses are typically designed to force reloads on the 10+1 crowd. Full disclosure and permission beforehand goes a long way.

Downloading is a great option for USPSA, especially if you're doing a lot of chambered reloads, and your gun is built with a mag catch and ejector fitted to hold the mag a few thou higher than standard spec (I have an EGW, I think, installed for this purpose) to help with feed angles.
 
I thought that standard, flat base, M1911 9mm mags were standard 9 rounds.
Is the 10 round mags similar to the 8 round .45ACP mags with an extended base?

Yup, 10rd 9mm mags have the longer tubes. WC ETMs look really goofy without a magwell.
 
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Ok, to prove my idea. I just snuck into my gun room that's thru the master bed room to grab my gun. Woke up the wife which pissed her off, but hey ? Its for a members question, she will get over it.
So, anyways,, I grabbed a mag and a box of factory 115 gr heads and did my worst job on loading a mag that I could do. It fed the first round from slide lock perfectly. I even tried purposely to nose dive the 10 bullet, fed slick as can be.. I guess I'm out of ideas.
The easiest answer is to just sell it to me cheap as a project gun right????
 
Ok, to prove my idea. I just snuck into my gun room that's thru the master bed room to grab my gun. Woke up the wife which pissed her off, but hey ? Its for a members question, she will get over it.
So, anyways,, I grabbed a mag and a box of factory 115 gr heads and did my worst job on loading a mag that I could do. It fed the first round from slide lock perfectly. I even tried purposely to nose dive the 10 bullet, fed slick as can be.. I guess I'm out of ideas.

Just to ask... did you slam the mag home like at a match? Also, was the mag clean?
 
People you need to stop diagnosing the issues with @fieldgrade 's 1911 in 9mm and just wait for the classified ad and then you can fix it in person. LOL
LOL,, Ive got a shooting competition partner/friend like you.. My front sight height was off but his was good so I called and asked him to measure his for me. He gave me a measurement in 32"s of an inch which should have been a clue, ,but I converted into thou of an inch and ordered that fiber optic sight.. Needless to say, it was way off.. When asked what he measured it with, he tells me a true value wooden yard stick.... he sucks as a friend but hes all I got..
 
put the recoil spring from the 45 in the 9 and see if that resolves your issue.
Might this be worth a try in my 9mm to see if it helps with my feed issues, since you said you don't have those with your set-up?
(I'm grabbing at straws here, duh!)
 
If all else fails, before you sell it, put the recoil spring from the 45 in the 9 and see if that resolves your issue. I shoot primarily blazer and lawman 115/124 gr and use a 16 lb recoil spring in mine because I don't like the sluggish slide. I also have a 17 or 19 lb main spring vs the stock 23...this offsets the heavier recoil spring some and would guess your competition pistol has a lighter than stock main spring as well.

This goes against what everyone on the web recommends for 9mm 1911s but I don't have feed issues and I prefer this setup over light recoil springs and light loads.

Off-Topic
Just FYI for anyone reading, don't put heavier-than-spec recoils springs in aluminum framed guns (I'm sure a 16# would be fine in a government frame, but I would not install a 18.5#+ in one).

Aluminum, unlike steel, takes a comprehensive load over time and will fatigue (crack). If the barrel's improperly fit, it usually cracks in the dustcover where the lower barrel lugs impact the frame. If it is properly fit, then the slide stop hole will eventually crack.

Rearward slide velocity can be controlled with a flat bottom firing pin stop (reducing the slide's leverage on the hammer) as well using a standard-pressure mainspring. Forward slide velocity is dependent on the recoil spring alone. A heavier recoil spring means more battering and faster fatigue with aluminum.

On-Topic
If the rounds are nosediving, a heavier spring might increase feed reliability from slide lock. It also might just slam the round nose-down harder. It's worth a try!

Other (frame material-neutral) options include:

-fitting a mag catch with a higher-than-standard engagement point (make sure you relieve your ejector to prevent damage);

- purchasing or loading rounds with a different overall length or nose profile;

- changing from spacer-type to internal-ramp-type magazines;

- trying increased power magazine springs; trying magazines with longer/shorter/tighter/looser feed lips and feed angles;

- using lower-capacity magazines; and, most importantly,

- having a gunsmith confirm the barrel lower lugs/barrel link/slide stop/frame relationships are all in spec.

9mm 1911s are worth the time, experimentation, money, and effort. They really are the a joy to shoot (when they work)!
 
probably needs a hands on evaluation to be fair.
I'm hoping to get that thing measured in all its areas to see if anything isn't how it's supposed to be. Offering it up for testing to a friend on the forum. Maybe that will tell me something.
I'll be happy to have your opinions as well! I will eventually have to get rid of the gun if I can't get it sorted out.....
 

Mine work just fine.....

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To bring some closure to this, I don’t know what happened at last Saturday’s match, but I cleaned the carbon fouling off the barrel feed ramp (it wasn’t that dirty), and ran the abbreviated IDPA classifier four times this week in two different range sessions. The gun ran like a champ, and I shot an “Expert” class time in the process, which I’ve not done before. I’m two seconds shy of Master class based on today’s session which I never would have imagined, so I’ll keep running this RIA.
 
To bring some closure to this, I don’t know what happened at last Saturday’s match, but I cleaned the carbon fouling off the barrel feed ramp (it wasn’t that dirty), and ran the abbreviated IDPA classifier four times this week in two different range sessions. The gun ran like a champ, and I shot an “Expert” class time in the process, which I’ve not done before. I’m two seconds shy of Master class based on today’s session which I never would have imagined, so I’ll keep running this RIA.[/QUO
Excellent news, Rock Islands rock and so do you !
 
I can mash my extended trigger finger against the slide while dropping the slide on a loaded mag and it goes fully into battery, sitting here at the bench.

It’s a head scratcher.

Not really.

Watching this for a few days, I've noticed that everybody seems to be seeing Zebras. When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses...not Zebras.

So, the gun usually goes to battery and sometimes it doesn't...so it seems that it's well set up or it would fail much more often and it would fail randomly and not at the one point that you're most likely to get a failure to go to battery...and it doesn't do it every time. That suggests a variable.

There is only one variable not eliminated.

The ammunition.

Take the barrel to a gunsmith and have him drop a finishing reamer into the chamber. Unless I miss my bet, he'll get chips from the forward third, where chambers tend to get tight when a reamer shrinks after two or three resharpenings. Chamber reamers are expensive. Manufacturers resharpen them several times before tossing them. This is very likely whence the bug nests.
 
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I don’t know if this has been asked but does this problem rear it’s ugly head with a different shooter? Let a buddy put it through its paces in a match-like setting.


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A 1911 in 9mm

iu

Come to the dark side. Colt knew what it was doing when it developed the Commander for the USAF's post-WWII RFI for a 9mm.

The only advantages of a .45 in the modern world is you get more practice reloading and you increase your chances of a hit by a whopping 0.1" in every direction.
 
Come to the dark side. Colt knew what it was doing when it developed the Commander for the USAF's post-WWII RFI for a 9mm.

The only advantages of a .45 in the modern world is you get more practice reloading and you increase your chances of a hit by a whopping 0.1" in every direction.

Even as an owner of a 1911 in the caliber of 9mm (I also have others in .45) I must say that you are committing pure blasphemy in the eyes of many in this world!

I like to think of it as another choice, a completely different animal!
 
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I must say that you are committing pure blasphemy in the eyes of many in this world!

Galileo and Martin Luther were heretics at one point. I'm in okay company!

.45 has its uses: it's necessary to compete in certain competitions, it makes a decent hardcast medium game bullet at archery ranges, and, if you live in New Jersey, it throws the biggest non-expanding ball you can fit in a concealable semi-auto. Due to the bullet weight, it can also be loaded quite soft for target shooting. It's a fun load to shoot and certainly worth owning.

However, it's not practically advantageous as a martial/defensive round/general purpose round.

Let's say the average guy is 180 pounds. That's 1,260,000 grains. A 230gr bullet is 0.018% of that person's body mass, a whopping 0.009% improvement over a 115gr 9mm.

.45 is only 0.1" wider in each dimension of frontal area than 9mm, and, expanded, it is still only about .1 inches wider in all dimensions. Say a guy is 18 inches across at the shoulders. A .45 is 2.5% of his frontal area, and a 9mm is 1.97% of his frontal area. That's a 0.53% "advantage."

.45 generates more "muzzle energy" (50-100 ft/lbs depending on the rounds compared), but that figure is practically worthless until you hit about 1000 ft-lbs and start actually creating hydrostatic shock. A pelvis or sternum is not going to laugh off 350 ft/lbs of 9mm, nor will it disintegrate if hit by 410 ft/lbs of .45.

Now, a .45 will chip away at a cinderblock faster, but people and animals are not cinderblocks. Pistol bullets work by (1) making holes that lead to rapid blood pressure loss, (2) compromising bone structures, (3) impacting and severing electrical systems, and/or (4) by inducing a psychological stop. 9mm on up (especially 124 and 147gr loads) will do all of those things with lower recoil and more rounds in the magazine.

Given the de minimis advantages of a modern bonded JHP .45 compared to a modern bonded JHP 9mm in relative size and weight, the negligible advantage in energy, the loss of capacity, the increased recoil, and the increased price of practice, the .45 is practically obsolete.

So are Camaros and rigid frame mountain bikes. Obsolete things can be fun, and if you have arbitrary limitations (class designations in competition, very tiny scoring rings in bullseye, or magazine capacity/bullet design restrictions), obsolete things might be the best options in those contexts.

1911s are still very viable handguns (especially for concealment, given their width), and there is endless technical support available for them. In 9mm, you get increased capacity, decreased weight, reduced recoil, and all of the other benefits of a 1911.
 
Galileo and Martin Luther were heretics at one point. I'm in okay company!

.45 has its uses: it's necessary to compete in certain competitions, it makes a decent hardcast medium game bullet at archery ranges, and, if you live in New Jersey, it throws the biggest non-expanding ball you can fit in a concealable semi-auto. Due to the bullet weight, it can also be loaded quite soft for target shooting. It's a fun load to shoot and certainly worth owning.

However, it's not practically advantageous as a martial/defensive round/general purpose round.

Let's say the average guy is 180 pounds. That's 1,260,000 grains. A 230gr bullet is 0.018% of that person's body mass, a whopping 0.009% improvement over a 115gr 9mm.

.45 is only 0.1" wider in each dimension of frontal area than 9mm, and, expanded, it is still only about .1 inches wider in all dimensions. Say a guy is 18 inches across at the shoulders. A .45 is 2.5% of his frontal area, and a 9mm is 1.97% of his frontal area. That's a 0.53% "advantage."

.45 generates more "muzzle energy" (50-100 ft/lbs depending on the rounds compared), but that figure is practically worthless until you hit about 1000 ft-lbs and start actually creating hydrostatic shock. A pelvis or sternum is not going to laugh off 350 ft/lbs of 9mm, nor will it disintegrate if hit by 410 ft/lbs of .45.

Now, a .45 will chip away at a cinderblock faster, but people and animals are not cinderblocks. Pistol bullets work by (1) making holes that lead to rapid blood pressure loss, (2) compromising bone structures, (3) impacting and severing electrical systems, and/or (4) by inducing a psychological stop. 9mm on up (especially 124 and 147gr loads) will do all of those things with lower recoil and more rounds in the magazine.

Given the de minimis advantages of a modern bonded JHP .45 compared to a modern bonded JHP 9mm in relative size and weight, the negligible advantage in energy, the loss of capacity, the increased recoil, and the increased price of practice, the .45 is practically obsolete.

So are Camaros and rigid frame mountain bikes. Obsolete things can be fun, and if you have arbitrary limitations (class designations in competition, very tiny scoring rings in bullseye, or magazine capacity/bullet design restrictions), obsolete things might be the best options in those contexts.

1911s are still very viable handguns (especially for concealment, given their width), and there is endless technical support available for them. In 9mm, you get increased capacity, decreased weight, reduced recoil, and all of the other benefits of a 1911.

I'm glad you finally gave this topic some serious thought!
 
Offering it up for testing to a friend on the forum
Hmmpphh! I think you're offering it to the wrong friend, but that's just me I guess. :p
 
Hmmpphh! I think you're offering it to the wrong friend, but that's just me I guess. :p
Nice chair pic!
Are you saying you want to test my 1911s?
 
I would be honored!
No problem, tell me when and where! You got all the measuring stuff, I guess? lol.

OR: If by "testing" you just mean shooting them, that's ok too....I'll be happy to hand them over!
 
You got all the measuring stuff, I guess? lol.
All? No. But I've got the equipment I need and a Mk1/Mod0 eyeball that's seen a few firearms broken down on the bench in the past 55+ years.
OTOH, if you've got someone closer by, you'll be a lot better off, time-wise. I want to get back down to Conway in the worst way, but I have no idea when that will be.
 
.45 has its uses: it's necessary to compete in certain competitions, it makes a decent hardcast medium game bullet at archery ranges, and, if you live in New Jersey, it throws the biggest non-expanding ball you can fit in a concealable semi-auto. Due to the bullet weight, it can also be loaded quite soft for target shooting. It's a fun load to shoot and certainly worth owning...and on and on...

And all this has what to do with the OP's malfunction...exactly?
 
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All? No. But I've got the equipment I need and a Mk1/Mod0 eyeball that's seen a few firearms broken down on the bench in the past 55+ years.
OTOH, if you've got someone closer by, you'll be a lot better off, time-wise. I want to get back down to Conway in the worst way, but I have no idea when that will be.
My guy is in SC. So at least 2 hours from me, which used to be a huge deal, but now is just what I have to do to get to matches and various ranges....no biggie. I live in the boonies, everything is 2 hours (at least) from me...lol.
I'll google your location.
 
My guy is in SC. So at least 2 hours from me, which used to be a huge deal, but now is just what I have to do to get to matches and various ranges....no biggie. I live in the boonies, everything is 2 hours (at least) from me...lol.
I'll google your location.
I'm about 2 hours from you. lol.
 
Ive been waiting for John Travis to chime in, but wasn't really expecting him to since we are dealing with a 9mm problem. But, when he talks I listen.
 
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And all this has what to do with the OP's malfunction...exactly?

Well, OP's 9mm 1911 may be having some issues. Along on the discussion, someone said it was heresy.

Just chiming in to say a 9mm 1911 is all the benefits of a 1911, but even better!

Besides, I think I chimed in enough with possible sources of slide-lock feed issues and solutions thereto to defend the chambering.
 
Well...back on topic...

fieldgrade...if you'll go have someone run a finishing reamer into the chamber, I predict that your problem will disappear once and for all. Otherwise, it'll continue to pop up from time to time.

As for the .45 being obsolete, the 9mm pedates it by three years. I like the cartridge fine...just not in a 1911. Too many opportunities for things to go sideways in a pistol that was designed for a fat, straight walled cartridge with 1.23-1.26 inch OAL and a generous extractor groove.
 
@John Travis Thanks for those suggestions and for weighing in.

All,
I ran the gun in three range sessions since the match where it gave me trouble a week ago, as well as the Buccaneer match yesterday and the gun has run like a sewing machine. In fact, I put up as good or better a score with this pistol yesterday as any match I’ve shot in three years. Three range sessions in the week previous probaly helped that.

I think I’m going to leave it alone and chalk this up as something that could probably be finely tuned, but probably not something I’ll do for a pistol at this price point. Like a friend of mine said, “1911 in 9mm? I think that’s called, personality.” I’ve had four others that cost more and gave me as much, or more trouble.

I probably have twice as many rounds through this gun now since it did this a week ago, so maybe some bugs got ironed out.

Anyway, if it starts this crap again at a match I’ll go back to my Range Officer in .45 to shoot CDP,
or *gasp*, finally wade into the carry-optic striker-fire quicksand.
 
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