What do I need to wire a shed for power.

Starkherz199

Starkherz199

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I had a mishap in January and my storage building burned down. I'm going to get a bigger one next time so I can cast bullets in the building; therefore I need to wire it for power. Can anybody tell me what equipment I need to get this done? Keep in mind that ALL of my tools went up in smoke, and I have to replace them to do this work.
I'm more or less looking for a shopping list of stuff needed to put power on a new building that I can purchase when I go to replace all the lost stuff.
 
I'm going to assume that you are going to have some heavy drag power equipment running in which case you'll need a 220 feed from at least a 30 amp circuit and a separate breaker box for the shop. If you do all of this your self you shouldn't need permits. If you hire an electrician you will.

If you are just going to run lights and low amperage tools you could forgo the breakers and just run a 110 line.

And of course bury the cable.
 
J R Green said:
I'm going to assume that you are going to have some heavy drag power equipment running in which case you'll need a 220 feed from at least a 30 amp circuit and a separate breaker box for the shop. If you do all of this your self you shouldn't need permits. If you hire an electrician you will.

If you are just going to run lights and low amperage tools you could forgo the breakers and just run a 110 line.

And of course bury the cable.
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Not true. Even as a homeowner it is not even legal to add a receptacle to a house you own without a permit. You can do your own work but they can require you to take a test in jurisdictions to determine your knowledge. Why would they allow a non experienced person to create a fire hazard when a licensed person must pull a permit? For the OP- best to pull a permit. If you sell it and anything happens to the new owner they can look up if it had a permit and then you are liable for the lifetime of the work. Yes lifetime.
 
Many jurisdictions you’ll need to pull a permit and have an electrician make the connections. To save money you can dig the trench and pull a lot of wire.

I’d put a sub panel in the shop, gotta buy the panel but outlets are a lot easier.
 
BlackGun said:
You can do your own work but they can require you to take a test in jurisdictions to determine your knowledge. Why would they allow a non experienced person to create a fire hazard when a licensed person must pull a permit?
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In Polk county you don't even need to do that. But they still inspect your work as a homeowner, and they'll let you get away with some cosmetic issues like maybe the romex isn't stapled as pretty as an electrician would do it, but it still has to meet code minimum. The NEC never mentions licensed electrician anywhere, only qualified persons.
NC generally is a tough state with electrical codes. They hold your feet to the fire. Some places I've been my God...what they allow for electrical installations and their definition of qualified persons become amazing in their stupidity.

@Starkherz199 this is really a job that is beyond the scope of the homeowner. I'm not saying that you couldn't ever do it, but the myriad things you need to know just don't make it worth your time.
Here's what you need to do for most effective and penny-smart.
-Plan on a 100 amp sub panel in the new outbuilding. Unless that outbuilding is 15 feet from the house, just running small branch circuits aren't worth the effort. It's not the cost of material here that is the killer overall, it's the labor. So if you have to dig might as well add a couple hundred dollars and make it right forever.
-Ideally, this outbuilding can be fed from the existing house panel that's not a super pita to get to. Even if you have to cut a bit of sheetrock to get wires into the panel, sheetrock patching is cheap compared to the other options. (house should have minimum 150 amp service now, preferably 200)
-Dig the ditch between the house and outbuilding. Code says 2 feet for direct burial, 18" in pipe. (pvc ok)
-Let the electrician do the rest. Along with sub panel in outbuilding, have him install one 20amp GFI outlet and a keyless light fixture on a switch. You can take it from there.

I tell ya, you dig that ditch for them and they'll love you long time. That's the grunt part they don't wanna do. A job like this without surprises would run around $800 and you'll be power-fat and good to go.
 
J R Green said:
I'm going to assume that you are going to have some heavy drag power equipment running in which case you'll need a 220 feed from at least a 30 amp circuit and a separate breaker box for the shop. If you do all of this your self you shouldn't need permits. If you hire an electrician you will.

If you are just going to run lights and low amperage tools you could forgo the breakers and just run a 110 line.

And of course bury the cable.
Click to expand...


Guess I am just a outlaw.

Not asking the king for permission to add a new circuit, or even an outlet, to my house.

Not having some low iq government lacky inspect my work either.
 
Brian K said:
Guess I am just a outlaw.

Not asking the king for permission to add a new circuit, or even an outlet, to my house.

Not having some low iq government lacky inspect my work either.
Click to expand...

All good, bu the OP has already had one fire, noncompliance will in the event of a disaster cause him to forfeit his insurance, and just doing the work without permission from the king is likely a violation of his mortgage agreement. I presume that he’s a man of his word, and will live up to those obligations.
 
Id have an electrician wire the panel (they can deal with the utility company and permits on that side where i feel its important). then id wire the rest myself, breakers and outlets are easy and i aint telling nobody.
 
I pulled a permit for the barn when we built the house. I wired the whole thing myself including the panel and the meter box. They inspected it and the power company ran the juice to it.

I now understand that because of the amount of acreage there is no need to pull permits for future buildings.
 
Friday said:
In Polk county you don't even need to do that. But they still inspect your work as a homeowner, and they'll let you get away with some cosmetic issues like maybe the romex isn't stapled as pretty as an electrician would do it, but it still has to meet code minimum. The NEC never mentions licensed electrician anywhere, only qualified persons.
NC generally is a tough state with electrical codes. They hold your feet to the fire. Some places I've been my God...what they allow for electrical installations and their definition of qualified persons become amazing in their stupidity.

@Starkherz199 this is really a job that is beyond the scope of the homeowner. I'm not saying that you couldn't ever do it, but the myriad things you need to know just don't make it worth your time.
Here's what you need to do for most effective and penny-smart.
-Plan on a 100 amp sub panel in the new outbuilding. Unless that outbuilding is 15 feet from the house, just running small branch circuits aren't worth the effort. It's not the cost of material here that is the killer overall, it's the labor. So if you have to dig might as well add a couple hundred dollars and make it right forever.
-Ideally, this outbuilding can be fed from the existing house panel that's not a super pita to get to. Even if you have to cut a bit of sheetrock to get wires into the panel, sheetrock patching is cheap compared to the other options. (house should have minimum 150 amp service now, preferably 200)
-Dig the ditch between the house and outbuilding. Code says 2 feet for direct burial, 18" in pipe. (pvc ok)
-Let the electrician do the rest. Along with sub panel in outbuilding, have him install one 20amp GFI outlet and a keyless light fixture on a switch. You can take it from there.

I tell ya, you dig that ditch for them and they'll love you long time. That's the grunt part they don't wanna do. A job like this without surprises would run around $800 and you'll be power-fat and good to go.
Click to expand...
Yeah some rural counties are letting people do anything close to mininums. You want even get a homeowner electrical permit here. I have heard them tell them no. Pretty tough on inspections here and in the middle counties of the state. Depends on the quality of the inspection departments. Some don’t know shit about the codes. I mean almost nothing and lazy as dirt.
One of my customers for HVAC was flipping a house and added some circuits to the existing panel. He is a licensed electrical contractor formerly a resident of New York. They made him almost entirely rewire the whole house except the wire in the closed walls. He had to bring it up to the newest code book. He quoted codes from the book but they made him do what they wanted. What you gonna do protest?

Back to the OP. I would let a licensed guy do most of the work. Dig your own ditch for the underground wire. We had a house here that burned with no permits. Insurance would not pay. They knew what caused the fire and looked for permits. They had someone do the work who had no license and never got a dime from the contractor. Had a house they couldn’t live in.

Had another house here that never pulled an electrical permit on new construction. The code officials never let the owner move in after they found out. The house house was done. It stood vacant for 35 or more years until a year ago. House was taken down and the land is for sale for commercial property. It was on Fairgrove Church Road in Hickory near the county hospital.
 
BlackGun said:
He quoted codes from the book but they made him do what they wanted. What you gonna do protest?
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Yeah.."Authority Having Jurisdiction"..one of my favorites, :rolleyes: and it's mentioned often in the NEC. Basically stated, it means the inspector can require things beyond NEC in the interest of safety. They're pretty good about it around here and usually what they ask for is not even the hill worth dying on. Adding an outlet, arc fault breakers on these circuits from now on, that kind of stuff. We do have an option we call 'calling Raleigh'...where we call and dispute the decision with the inspectors boss. If you're right they'll side with you. But you ain't making friends with the local inspectors playing that card.
Residential is not technically difficult but it is very code intensive, and this is almost always where guys make mistakes. The 3 things inspectors immediately look for is smoke detectors, gfi protection where required, and proper grounding. All safety stuff. If it actually works or not most don't care. That's your problem.
 
J R Green said:
I'm going to assume that you are going to have some heavy drag power equipment running in which case you'll need a 220 feed from at least a 30 amp circuit and a separate breaker box for the shop. If you do all of this your self you shouldn't need permits. If you hire an electrician you will.

If you are just going to run lights and low amperage tools you could forgo the breakers and just run a 110 line.

And of course bury the cable.
Click to expand...
I work with several electricians. I'll get one of them to do it...I just need to buy the stuff, and I'm trying to budget for that now.
 
Pack72 said:
Forgive me for playing devil's advocate here but... if your storage building burned down, what you need to wire the new one for power is a licensed electrician.
Click to expand...
This post makes no sense.
 
Friday said:
In Polk county you don't even need to do that. But they still inspect your work as a homeowner, and they'll let you get away with some cosmetic issues like maybe the romex isn't stapled as pretty as an electrician would do it, but it still has to meet code minimum. The NEC never mentions licensed electrician anywhere, only qualified persons.
NC generally is a tough state with electrical codes. They hold your feet to the fire. Some places I've been my God...what they allow for electrical installations and their definition of qualified persons become amazing in their stupidity.

@Starkherz199 this is really a job that is beyond the scope of the homeowner. I'm not saying that you couldn't ever do it, but the myriad things you need to know just don't make it worth your time.
Here's what you need to do for most effective and penny-smart.
-Plan on a 100 amp sub panel in the new outbuilding. Unless that outbuilding is 15 feet from the house, just running small branch circuits aren't worth the effort. It's not the cost of material here that is the killer overall, it's the labor. So if you have to dig might as well add a couple hundred dollars and make it right forever.
-Ideally, this outbuilding can be fed from the existing house panel that's not a super pita to get to. Even if you have to cut a bit of sheetrock to get wires into the panel, sheetrock patching is cheap compared to the other options. (house should have minimum 150 amp service now, preferably 200)
-Dig the ditch between the house and outbuilding. Code says 2 feet for direct burial, 18" in pipe. (pvc ok)
-Let the electrician do the rest. Along with sub panel in outbuilding, have him install one 20amp GFI outlet and a keyless light fixture on a switch. You can take it from there.

I tell ya, you dig that ditch for them and they'll love you long time. That's the grunt part they don't wanna do. A job like this without surprises would run around $800 and you'll be power-fat and good to go.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. I won't be doing any electrical work. I've got some coworkers that'll do it if I can get our schedules to work out. Stuff like digging the trench...I'll definitely do.

Edited to add that my 17 year old will be digging the trench.
 
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And by the way...I'm in no hurry to get this done. I'd like to do it in the summer when I'm off and have other projects planned. If there's any permits required or anything like that, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Right now I'm just getting a list of needed stuff and a budget prepared. I guess you could say I'm in the planning phase.
 
If you are pulling power from the residence then make sure you have panel space for a double pole breaker. Also your amperage capacity in the panel is important. You don’t want to exceed the primary residence panel rating. I would bury it in conduit but that is up to you. You didn’t mention what equipment or outlets needed. Please list those and maybe we can be more knowledgeable in the conversation.
 
BlackGun said:
If you are pulling power from the residence then make sure you have panel space for a double pole breaker. Also your amperage capacity in the panel is important. You don’t want to exceed the primary residence panel rating. I would bury it in conduit but that is up to you. You didn’t mention what equipment or outlets needed. Please list those and maybe we can be more knowledgeable in the conversation.
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I'll need the power for casting bullets...so I use 2 electric lead pots, a couple of shop fans for proper ventilation, and overhead lighting. Those lead pots are kinda like hot plates...I would imagine they use a bit of power.
 
Starkherz199 said:
I'll need the power for casting bullets...so I use 2 electric lead pots, a couple of shop fans for proper ventilation, and overhead lighting. Those lead pots are kinda like hot plates...I would imagine they use a bit of power.
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Look on nameplate for the fans and hot plates for the amps. Total number of each.
 
BlackGun said:
Back to the OP. I would let a licensed guy do most of the work. Dig your own ditch for the underground wire. We had a house here that burned with no permits. Insurance would not pay. They knew what caused the fire and looked for permits. They had someone do the work who had no license and never got a dime from the contractor. Had a house they couldn’t live in.
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Good to know, thanks
 
Starkherz199 said:
Edited to add that my 17 year old will be digging the trench.
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Lol. I do believe this is the entire reason for having children.
After the ditch is dug and the wire is in there the inspector will want to see it. Most are cool with a bunch of good pictures if you need to cover it up because of rain.

BlackGun said:
If you are pulling power from the residence then make sure you have panel space for a double pole breaker.
Click to expand...
Usually I can shuffle around a couple of small branch circuits to thin breakers and open up a couple of spots. But yeah, some panels look like a plate of spaghetti.
BlackGun said:
Also your amperage capacity in the panel is important.
Click to expand...
And it is. If he has a modernish 200 amp service then he's gold. There's so many safety margins built in, especially with service. The wire is oversized to begin with, and fused at less amperage than what it can really carry.
Rarely do you have to worry about overloading a service in a newer-ish house. Old houses are another story. Most loads in a house are non-coincidental, meaning they're not on at the same time. If I turn everything electric on in a regular house, still the usual amp reading is 80-90 amps. No where close to 200. Usually they run around 50-60 on a summer day.
Starkherz199 said:
Ok...will check it when I get home.
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They just plug into regular wall outlets right?
The most power an appliance that uses a regular 120v 3 prong plug will draw is 16 amps. And that's big stuff like a window a/c. But anything that heats or cools draws the most power. I'd still recommend a dedicated 20 amp circuit for each plate.
The most amperage you want on a 20 amp circuit is 16, and on a 15 amp circuit, 12. You can run em harder than that, but stuff starts to get hot.
 
I’m having a barn service done on my barn turned shop. I wired the original barn when I had horses in there and it was fine. I’ve since poured concrete and torn out the stalls. I’m converting it into a nice shop/man cave. I was a construction engineer in the army but I’m hiring an electrician to do this. I had to pull a permit anyway because it’s been on a temporary pole for the last 30 years and i want it done with a 200 amp service attached to the building. Duke power wouldn’t move it without the permit. I’ll end up with about $1500-2000 in what I want done, but it’ll be worth it.
 
When I built my “no more moving shop” I wired it way overboard but I’ll never have to go back and do anything ... I think of it as “wire once cry once”. I split the lighting into front and rear sections, I put each wall’s outlets on separate 20A breakers just so I’d not overload one breaker. I set it up so I don’t need a drop cord or such inside the shop. The materials and such are not that expensive and it’s way easier to add a couple extra while you’re building.
 
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I feel like I'm in the process of being scammed by my wife. She's inquired about getting a separate 2nd building, that will also need power, and making it something called a "she-shed".
This semi-DIY is becoming more involved than I thought.
 
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BlackGun said:
If you are pulling power from the residence then make sure you have panel space for a double pole breaker. Also your amperage capacity in the panel is important. You don’t want to exceed the primary residence panel rating.
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I would recommend doing a load study to make sure you have sufficient capacity. Chances are you do, but if your house has a lot of electrical appliances, e.g. heat pump, water heater, electric dryer, electric oven, electric stove, freezers, and a well pump, you could be pushing it. The NEC book has a formula for calculating the load. It's based upon X amps per square foot for lighting and outlet loads, plus the big ones like your HVAC and oven, plus any continuous (on for more than three hours) loads.

Several years ago, my wife wanted to put a pottery kiln in the garage. 60A at 240v. I couldn't even get people to quote the job and they would just say there is no way you have the capacity. Thru were wrong (mostly gas appliances). I I pulled a permit as an HO, a friend and I did the work. The inspector said it was a first that he couldn't find anything to complain about.

In your case, you want a sub panel, wired as a feeder (breakers on both ends), with a bonded ground from the main panel.
 
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Wanted to update and end this DYI discussion. After reading all the posts made here, I decided to get an electrician. In the end, the time savings was a key part of the decision, along with everyones advice. Thanks for the input.
 
Starkherz199 said:
Wanted to update and end this DYI discussion. After reading all the posts made here, I decided to get an electrician. In the end, the time savings was a key part of the decision, along with everyones advice. Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...
Wise decision.
 
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