That's ok I'll pass.
What is causing this group pattern?
- Thread starter Alabamacoastie
- Start date
- Replies 68
- Views 2,512
That's ok I'll pass.
well yeah just seeing what is here now does make me look like a grumpy oldfart on that I'd agree but most of the post I was commenting on was deleted. Not sure who did the deleting doesn't matter its all resolved now so I won't need to be the old grumpy neighbor or at least appear to just be one...
Interesting,
Well here's one of mine and it was Feed Ramps.
I lived it.
So, Feed Ramps don't cause this?
For a barrel ext to strip that much material off a bullet, you would have resadue in the trigger mechanism.
I think other factors come into play. I could be wrong, but the shift of 1 moa like you posted looks like a shadow effect in the optic with poor parallax adjustment
Noted
However when this occurred I toiled over this dilemma to include removing the firing pin ( as noted in my other post ) to slowly cycle ammo through the feed cycle.
All in All , not that much material was removed at all, rather slightly misinformed nose, ( Soft Points ) and scratching on the projectiles.
Besides the rig I was running has a totally different FCG than an AR10.
In my case, there was a little more material on the right which the round in both being directed to the left & UP to chamber was doing the damage.
Ok, if you remove the firing pin in a AR platform the bolt can not feed, lock, unlock, extract or eject.
So no.
On the bullet deformity.
The deformity is a removal of weight correct?
So shoot 4 different weights of bullets of the same caliber and you should get 4 different groups right?
Easy to test.
Secondly easy to test, shoot iron sights on the questionable gun. I bet you a free class slot to my PDW class the two groups goes away
Last edited:
As I previously stated, SOFT POINTS, my friend.
The bullets on the affected side were NOT on a Diet losing massive amounts of material.
I will add, when I ran ammo through the rifle I never looked up , or unmounted the rifle, period.
So how would ,presumably, not getting getting a different mount, weld, contribute to such an even anomaly. I mean it's just : L-R, L-R, L-R?
I also suspect the choice of scope used is NOT being recognized by the , HUM, The Establishment (?) here as being capable of delivering accurate results when setup properly, which stands true for any scope.
On my rifle I was NOT using a Sightmark, SOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?
So, you want the rifle I had issue with, however it is no longer available.
However I do have yet another rig that does in fact have feed ramp issues and it has them severe enough to totally NOT Feed reliably.
Perhaps that one could be used as a TEST Platform?
As to your school?
I'm truly Glad your still around and breathing my friend as about a year ago I looked you up (school) and came up empty, as in you closed up shop and ??
You ( as others ) have good insight and experience to offer.
But with this case in trying to Disprove Feed Ramps can or are a problem to what end?
The OP posted his findings, so he is Totally Mistaken?
I do find the different diagnosis offered for this problem very interesting, in which there is definitively a Left - Right Pattern and my trying to make reason as to how a Loose Barrel, a flaky reticle, or other random misgivings will follow a cadence ,
Safe Shooting
Last edited:
I shoot a lot of prs matches. All with custom built bolt guns with nothing but the best the market can offer. I've learned the hard way on cleaning my barrels after every session. I monitor every lot of ammo I shoot. I document group size and speeds of every lot. Every lot consist of 100 to 200 rounds depending on the match that I am shooting. You can not get the consistency if you clean your barrel every time. I'm sorry but you can not. Bore scopes help with this as it helps me maintain the copper fouling. My barrels get cleaned every 400 to 500 rounds depending on speeds and groupings of my tests. Then minimum of 40 rounds to settle the barrel back down before testing another lot that I have reloaded. There are some top ranked shooters that will not clean the copper out of their barrels. They will only clean the carbon. Maybe I am stupid and lazy because im not a brain surgeon. I guess neither are the rest of the prs shooters.
georgel
Behind Every Blade of Grass
Charter Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
One of the practical factors to consider, in not cleaning your gun all the time, is being able to take an accurate cold bore shot if necessary. If we agree that the first few rounds from a freshly cleaned and lubed gun have a different impact than rounds that follow, then grabbing your clean and put away gun from the rack, going afield and putting the shot where it counts may be difficult. Some precision competitions I've been to require a cold bore first shot. No warm ups. And think of the sniper paradigm. That first cold bore shot has to count. He doesn't start in a a bullpen somewhere warming up his rifle first.
It's a common practice in precision shooters to not clean their guns too often for consistency.
Try again please sir
Last edited:
BurnedOutGeek
What's this button do?
Staff member
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Multi-Factor Enabled
Until the group starts opening up I don't clean the barrel, just keep the chamber clean.
Exactly. That's why I document everything. Didnt I meet you at woody's at a dmm match before?
BurnedOutGeek
What's this button do?
Staff member
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Multi-Factor Enabled
I believe you did. Pretty sure I recognized your grendel and asked about it. (Iirc)
Sounds like you need a short vacation to the mountains so we can remedy that illness! All you need is ammo!
Frank
I am perplexed that ALL the rounds were scratched in the same manner. Rules out the left right theory. I would change the optic , or use iron sights and repeat the whole experiment.
You definitely need to find the source of the scratches, I'm just not satisfied that is the cause of left / right impacts.
And yes , the comp is cool.
You definitely need to find the source of the scratches, I'm just not satisfied that is the cause of left / right impacts.
And yes , the comp is cool.
I might make it there in a little while, but right now I can barely hold up the 9mm 1911 for an hour and 5 boxes of ammo, much less hold onto a heavy rifle! Lol. I'm still too new to start on a different kind of firearm. But I'll get there.....
Yup,
This guy, ME?
1) It's impossible to determine the true meaning when communicating with written word.
2) There seems to be a Polite Brow Beating discounting my shared experience and I don't care.
3) What I care about is giving a follow shooter another solution to try, of which many times is unpopular. There are MANY shooters that read these post trying to get their rig running or running better. Many with limited experience ~ mechanical ability and
limited income.
My point being, when others read these post they get discouraged when MANY $hit on an optic that they may own, off the cuff endorse a Barrel or other Brand Name they Don't own, etc.
Many times others offer their advice based on their personal favorite brand, satisfaction, status symbol, etc. I do not and I may mention what works for me but I don't Push items that I prefer, it's my choice.
If a fellow shooter gets their rig running properly and They KNOW where the "LOVE" is going to be delivered, that's the end result ~ game,,, No matter what they have for gear, Period.
4) If solutions or explanations have been presented as to How an Optic, Loose Barrel, or other Anomaly knows how to "Follow a Cadence" of Left - Right - Left, especially never breaking the weld, then they have escaped me in this thread.
5) When I choose to contribute, I have no reason to Lie, Misrepresent, etc.
One of the aspects of the sport I enjoy is maintaining my own gear. I also have a Moto: "Test, Don't GUESS." Guessing can get unnecessarily expensive.
FWIW
SAFE Shooting
jmccracken1214
Well-Known Member
What causes this crappy group of 5 shots
Pushing the Blunt End ofa Sharpie thru the paper.
Written word is tuff, what I meant was " Listen to this guy, he sounds like he knows a thing or two! "
I would not publicly poke or ridicule anyone on this great site, regardless of what they said!
Thanks for making me think about what I leave here.
Frank
ROFLMAO
Yes, You are 100% correct!
Of which Boyette was questioning me and VOD's quote was backing up or Seconding Boyette, which is fine.
As I have stated a few times in this thread, I contribute to help others and usually when I >Take Time< to contribute it is because I feel I have something to offer that has not been stated or to help ( hopefully ) to bring some clarity to the issue being tossed around.
Many times I do NOT contribute, simply because the establishment here has their mind made up of what fixes things, etc.
I've said the following before, again, Many read forums to gain insight or an answer to their situation and Never chime in or contribute for many reasons, period. Read my other post in this thread.
MY Bang Sticks work fine and if they do not I repair / service them as needed.
I am fortunate enough that I naturally know / understand how a screwdriver works, not all are as fortunate.
So, I'm at a disadvantage as to your pointing out VOD's quote.
I will Flat Out state the following for anyone still looking for useful insight , >>" Feed Ramp"<< differences damaging a projectile can & will "IN FACT" effect a bullets POI, period.
I am NOT looking for or asking anyone to agree with me, I know, I lived it, Period.
It is also easier to check out than replacing barrels and other costly items, especially for those that do not have the resources.
This thread is getting , well,
My main concern was and is , those that need or what to understand where their "Love Is Going" make sure it gets to the POI ( Planned) regardless if their rig cost $200.00 or $2,000.00.
Also, If a situation or solution was posted to explain the following, I missed it. I am always looking for useful insight / knowledge.
I do find the different diagnosis offered for this problem very interesting, in which there is definitively a Left - Right Pattern and my trying to make reason as to how a Loose Barrel, a flaky reticle, or other random misgivings will follow a cadence ,
The above is all the while keeping a weld.
FWIW
Safe Shooting