Hey! Those pants (at least mine) are made of ballistic nylon that can resist up to 800 Newtons of force. I sense jealousy......
I wish I had a pair of those in high school
Congratulations on an awesome accomplishment! Very impressive.
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When One Hobby is not Enough...
- Thread starter Blueridge
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I wish I had a pair of those in high school
Congratulations on an awesome accomplishment! Very impressive.
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Blueridge
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As it happens, I fenced foil at NCSU on the varsity team back in the late 80's.
georgel
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Cool! I was there in the '70's. We were in the lower level of the gym and shared a space with the power lifting team if all things. I remember they tried to recruit me for a long time, because they had an opening for my weight class. It was next to the exercise room with the wooden rungs mounted on the wall. It was very basic then. The coach was a short stocky guy, can't remember his name. I remember training on those A structure steps that went to the upper levels. Up and down every step as fast as you could go, round and round. Never had an interest in epee. It seemed gamy to me with those touches to the arms or legs. And I didn't have the reach for sabre. The sabre guys were the wild bunch.
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good god man, at least know the difference between epee, foil and sabre fighting. what a rookie am I right?!
Not entirely sure I would call it "fighting"!
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OP
Blueridge
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I believe that we were in the same room that you describe when I was there, and from what I have seen the current club is there (the room has been remodeled extensively). I fenced Foil in college, but added Epee shortly after I returned to fencing in the late 90's. Saber went to electric scoring around '89 and currently (I think around the late 90's) does not allow the fleche maneuver. This has "removed" much of the wildness you and I both witnessed in college.
It took a bit for me to get used to the target area of Epee, but after I started looking at it as a "first blood" style competition it was easier. Directing/Refereeing is much less subjective in Epee than in Foil.
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Blueridge
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You might be surprised, as the protective equipment worn is not just for show. Masks have to pass 12kg punch tool tests in domestic competition, and 25kg punch tool tests in international competition. Jackets and knickers (pants) have to be rated to withstand 800 Newtons of force for protection, in addition to a plastron (under jacket weapon side protector) wich has to also be rated to withstand 800 Newtons of force for protection. Those jacket, knickers, and plastron numbers are for international competition, and I believe domestic competition 600 Newtons is the requirement. Fencing is the second fastest sport in the Olympics (after the firearm shooting competitions) with the blades moving at speeds that can exceed 100 mph regularly. Now picture two opponents engaging each other with "Strong competitive intent". Blades do break, bruises happen, and injuries occur. Most of the time with neither fencer intending harm to the other.
georgel
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I remember some the poke fest some of the Epee fencers would get into, try to get the point. All, I could think was, "Damn it man, where's your form?" I never felt very postive with the standard French grip. I went to a Belgian and everything changed.
OP
Blueridge
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Never liked the french grip myself. I used a visconti most of the time I fenced foil and epee, and use more modern Zivkovic (pistol style) grips model B, BII, & Z style since about 2005. Most Epee fencers that I face that use french grips are trying to get a reach advantage by pommeling the french grip for the extra inches you can get. I therefore tend to bind or use blade control against them, since "pistol style" fencing grips provide stronger leverage normally.
You would be amazed with the variety of blade strengths and flex abilities available now. I have 2-3 different Epee setups that I choose from, depending on who I am fencing and how I am fencing that day.
I must say that Epee fencing has had a somewhat negative effect on my fencing form, but I keep it under control most of the time.
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georgel
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Really? It looks like a dance and it's done with a certain etiquette and grace, but fencers have a lot of dynamic power. They go from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye. It teaches a lot of hand eye coordination, footwork and discipline. It teaches weapon technique, because improper technique not only cost you a point, it can cause equipment failure. (Snapped my share of blades.)
It also teaches one on one confrontation, measuring your opponent, getting them to act and aggression. Aggression usually wins.
It's fighting with grace and style.
We used to use practice blades with rubber tips on the ends. The blade ends were also flattened, like a nail head. During one practice, whenever one guy would make contact it hurt like hell, despite wearing a vest. Sometimes the tips would wear and break off and we would inspect each others. His looked fine, until about the third time he hit me, I more carefully examined the tip and discovered it looked intact, but had a split that the blade would poke through. If it had been a real blade, it would have easily pierced a lung or other vitals.
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OP
Blueridge
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At any rate, I'll do my best to keep updating my fencing at the US Fencing Nationals. The finals bouts are posted on YouTube under US Fencing, and if things go real well I'll be in one of the finals of the three Epee events I am competing in.
I took fencing (foil) for a bit as a youth. So, not a whole lot about it would surprise me.
Seen a few twisted ankles, lol. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool sport. But, it's really a sport, not really fighting any more then USPSA is fighting.
The "fighting/notfighting" discussion reminded me of a funny story...well...to me anyway...
Years ago my oldest brother and I got really seriously into Tae Kwan Do. Trained 3 times a week at least at a local Dojang. While we weren't every "great" we achieved Red Belt and were preparing for our black belt exams (we eventually dropped out due to some other issues, so never tested for black). Point being, we were pretty good at the basics and could hold our own in sparring and techniques.
At that time my brother was big into greyhound dog rescue. He had also adopted an Azawakh (basically a west African greyhound). The guy who ran the Azawakh breeder/rescue was a flaming gay man who was once a ballet dancer who had danced with Baryshnikov. My brother told me that during one of his trips down to work with the dogs he was telling this guy about Tar Kwan Do and what he was learning...and my brother showed him a few of the kicks and spins we were learning. Without missing a beat this Gay ballet dancer said "Oh! That's exactly like (insert froufrou sounding ballet move) and then performed the martial arts move >perfectly<. He could basically do it all.
Bottom line, the difference between a "gay man doing ballet" and a "hairy manly man doing Tae Kwan Do" was just in the naming conventions and the intent behind the moves.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Years ago my oldest brother and I got really seriously into Tae Kwan Do. Trained 3 times a week at least at a local Dojang. While we weren't every "great" we achieved Red Belt and were preparing for our black belt exams (we eventually dropped out due to some other issues, so never tested for black). Point being, we were pretty good at the basics and could hold our own in sparring and techniques.
At that time my brother was big into greyhound dog rescue. He had also adopted an Azawakh (basically a west African greyhound). The guy who ran the Azawakh breeder/rescue was a flaming gay man who was once a ballet dancer who had danced with Baryshnikov. My brother told me that during one of his trips down to work with the dogs he was telling this guy about Tar Kwan Do and what he was learning...and my brother showed him a few of the kicks and spins we were learning. Without missing a beat this Gay ballet dancer said "Oh! That's exactly like (insert froufrou sounding ballet move) and then performed the martial arts move >perfectly<. He could basically do it all.
Bottom line, the difference between a "gay man doing ballet" and a "hairy manly man doing Tae Kwan Do" was just in the naming conventions and the intent behind the moves.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OP
Blueridge
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Yes, fencing is a sport. Like most sports the skills that you learn are only as useful as what you do with them.
Most sports and competitive endeavors help to improve skills that can be useful in numerous situations. The sport of fencing and USPSA are examples of sports that help improve tactical thought, hand-eye coordination, endurance, and other skills. All of which can prove useful in other situations in life.
I never intended to suggest that fencing was equivalent to fighting. It does build useful skills, confidence, & character that are useful well beyond the sport.
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OP
Blueridge
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2017 US Fencing Nationals:
First event complete, Veteran 40-49 Men's Epee (age group).
Entered the event seeded 25th of 33.
Went 2-3 in pools, coming out seeded 20th of 33.
Had a bye in the bracket of 64, then won my first direct elimination 10-8 in the bracket of 32 against the 13th seed.
Faced the 4th seed in my second direct elimination, and lost 4-10. My opponent finished tied for 3rd overall, and I finished 14th out of 33.
One event down, two more to go...
First event complete, Veteran 40-49 Men's Epee (age group).
Entered the event seeded 25th of 33.
Went 2-3 in pools, coming out seeded 20th of 33.
Had a bye in the bracket of 64, then won my first direct elimination 10-8 in the bracket of 32 against the 13th seed.
Faced the 4th seed in my second direct elimination, and lost 4-10. My opponent finished tied for 3rd overall, and I finished 14th out of 33.
One event down, two more to go...
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georgel
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Good job. I'm usually fairly satisfied if I manage to finish in the top half of a good field in anything. The rest is icing.
Well, a lot of sports started as training or ritualized combat. For instance, before Shaka came around, a lot of "wars" where he lived were just one-to-one ritualized fights were less blood was shed than a ballroom brawl about the proper conjugation of "y'all." Just look at the Olympics. As you said, the outcome (as any good training) is improving your body and mind. You know, the mens sana corpore sano ideal. And IMHO, the rewards, the way you feel when you know you improved and kicked ass in such a competition worth more than those you get by in a "sport" where who has the most money wins. Did I rub the AR aftermarket industry the wrong way? Ooooh, sooo sad!
On a different note, the Cheshire Cat look in your face in the original picture tells me you let off a quiet but soft burbly one. That is enforced by the look in the kid in the middle...
So, it is a legal move to fart your opponent into submission?
Sorry, missed this.
I agree with all above and think it's a cool and fun sport for sure.
OP
Blueridge
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It is not unknown for some to use "chemical warfare" created by the emanations fueled by beans and various other foods to defend themselves. I have never done this myself, but know a few people that have. The hard part, I am told, is timing the release and being able to exit the area swiftly.
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I was glad to have finished well, and part of my initial goal was to finish ahead of another NC fencer. Alas that did not occur, as I did not fence well enough to manage that. I was close though, as he finished 10th and I finished 14th.Good job. I'm usually fairly satisfied if I manage to finish in the top half of a good field in anything. The rest is icing.
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Blueridge
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The end of my round of 32 direct elimination match at the US Fencing Nationals in the Veteran Men's Epee 40-49. I came from behind to win the bout 10-8. Not my most graceful fencing, but it got the job done that bout.
OP
Blueridge
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Results from the three events I competed in. Just to put things into perspective, The nearest person to my age in the Division 2 & 3 Men's Epee events was approximately 20-25 years younger than me.
In the Veteran 40-49 (age) Men's Epee event, which I entered ranked 25th out of 33 in initial seeding. I went 2-3 in the pool bouts with a -3 indicator (touches scored minus touches received), and came out of seeded 20th. I faced the 13th seed in the direct elimination bracket of 32, and won in a comeback effort 10-8. I moved on to the bracket of 16 and faced the 4th seed, which ended in a losing 4-10 effort. I finished 14th overall. That was Wednesday.
On Friday I competed in the Division 2 Men's Epee event, which I entered 130th out of 180 in initial seeding. I went 2-3 in the pool bouts with a -3 indicator, and came out of seeded 107th. I faced the 21st seed in the direct elimination bracket of 128, and lost 11-15. I finished 113th overall.
On Saturday I competed in the Division 3 Men's Epee event, which I entered 58th out of 149. I went 3-3 in the pool bouts with a -5 indicator, and came out seeded tied at 84th. I faced the 44th seed in the direct elimination bracket of 128, and lost 9-15. I finished 98th overall.
Overall I had fun, and I am preparing to focus on the upcoming fencing season in order to qualify for the 2018 US Fencing Nationals. I cannot get younger, so I will have to raise my game a few notches to remain competitive at the level of nationals.
In the Veteran 40-49 (age) Men's Epee event, which I entered ranked 25th out of 33 in initial seeding. I went 2-3 in the pool bouts with a -3 indicator (touches scored minus touches received), and came out of seeded 20th. I faced the 13th seed in the direct elimination bracket of 32, and won in a comeback effort 10-8. I moved on to the bracket of 16 and faced the 4th seed, which ended in a losing 4-10 effort. I finished 14th overall. That was Wednesday.
On Friday I competed in the Division 2 Men's Epee event, which I entered 130th out of 180 in initial seeding. I went 2-3 in the pool bouts with a -3 indicator, and came out of seeded 107th. I faced the 21st seed in the direct elimination bracket of 128, and lost 11-15. I finished 113th overall.
On Saturday I competed in the Division 3 Men's Epee event, which I entered 58th out of 149. I went 3-3 in the pool bouts with a -5 indicator, and came out seeded tied at 84th. I faced the 44th seed in the direct elimination bracket of 128, and lost 9-15. I finished 98th overall.
Overall I had fun, and I am preparing to focus on the upcoming fencing season in order to qualify for the 2018 US Fencing Nationals. I cannot get younger, so I will have to raise my game a few notches to remain competitive at the level of nationals.
Nice job!!
Maybe if you get a chance can you post some pics of your epee. And, maybe explain the differences from a foil and a sabre, and the different techniques and/or strategy involved?
People would find it interesting I think.
Maybe if you get a chance can you post some pics of your epee. And, maybe explain the differences from a foil and a sabre, and the different techniques and/or strategy involved?
People would find it interesting I think.
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A well earned congrats Sir!
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Blueridge
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This past weekend I went down to Charleston SC and competed in the Epee fencing event (Holy City Open).
There were 22 competitors in the event, and I was hoping for a top four finish. I was seeded ninth coming into the event, and went 4-1 in my seeding pool. I came out of pools seeded sixth, and had a bye in the round of 32 direct elimination bracket. I faced the 11th seed in the round of 16, and won 15-13. I then faced the 14th seed (who had defeated the 3rd seed in the round of 16), and won 15-11 in the round of 8. I then faced the 10th seed (who had defeated the 2nd seed in the round of 16), and lost 11-15 in the round of 4 semi-finals.
Five fencers from my club competed in the event, three of us made the top 8, and two of us the top 4. We both earned a D18 rating from placing in the top four. I and the female in all black are from the same fencing club (Cape Fear Fencing Association), and this was the first rating that she has earned in the eight years she has competed.
This is the last tournament that I can compete in prior to the NC Qualifier for the US Fencing Nationals. I hope to fence at least this well at the qualifier in March.
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I graduated from State in 1972, and got married right after. The guy who took our wedding photos was the fencing coach. I don't know if it was the same guy, though.
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I fenced in college in the late 80’s, saber, but was ultimately too short at 6’ and really just wasn’t fast enough. Didn’t really matter, did it to impress a girl and that worked out well.
Impressive that you’re keeping up with the kids, good luck at next month’s qualifier.
Impressive that you’re keeping up with the kids, good luck at next month’s qualifier.
if there are any cheap hobbies out there - i havent ran across them yet.
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Blueridge
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Six foot is pretty tall compared to the saber fencers that we're on my team. Most were between 5'5" & 5'10" and they were fast as a cheetah. I just could not get into saber in college, as initially is was a "dry" (non-electric) weapon. All the saber fencers I saw had 12"to 30" welts/bruises across their back after a match. It looked too painful for me.
It was dry, and occasionally painful, but I only stayed with it for a year because I changed schools, and girls, and never really got that bad a beating.