Why is it so hard to find a plain 20 inch AR?

[Combat Diver]

Do you have a modern 1911 currently?

has nothing to do with powder, and everything to do with bullet length (weight also)

1:12 twist is for 50gr or lighter, which is fine for shooting poodles. a 1 in 8 will do it all.

1:12 is fine with 55 gr bullets as that was what was issued with the XM16E1/M16A1s. The very first thousand or so of AR15 select fire/M16s had a 1:14 twist. My Green Mountain 1:14 still shoots 55 grainers accurately. And speaking of Green Mountain Barrels they do make a M16A1 profile with either a 1:12 or 1:14. Also make a M16A2 profile with 1:7 twist. Just doesn't come with the front sight base.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/ar-15-m16-m4-rifle-barrels/

I built my M16A4 clone. Won't mind building both a M16A1 and M16A2 clone also. I did manage to assemble 5 M16A2 uppers, including the sights for some issue M16A2s in Kuwait last year. Just got back to Kuwait yesterday for another year as a SOF gunsmith.

M16A2 and M4 uppers.

M16A2, M16A4 (both 20" FN bbls), M4A1 (Colt 14.5") and M4A1 CQR (10.3" Colt) 1:7 uppers.

CD

 

[Geezer]

Maybe if you were wanting to buy instead of trade your search would become easier.

 

[Mightyox04]

When did I say I was looking for an M16A1? I want something like a Colt SP1, pre-A1. Also, what’s this about civilian AR-15s in Vietnam?

So even rarer. Ok forgive me for not calling them by what ever name you'd like. Good luck in you hunt.

 

[pipboy344]

Maybe if you were wanting to buy instead of trade your search would become easier.

I don’t have the money to spare, I do have many things I don’t want.

 

[pipboy344]

So even rarer. Ok forgive me for not calling them by what ever name you'd like. Good luck in you hunt.

How is it any rarer? They were the first and only civilian AR made for almost thirty years. They were incredibly popular and are still seen frequently in film & television production

 

[Mightyox04]

How is it any rarer? They were the first and only civilian AR made for almost thirty years. They were incredibly popular and are still seen frequently in film & television production

Pre A1 like slab sided? No forward assist?

 

[Ikarus1]

1:12 is fine with 55 gr bullets as that was what was issued with the XM16E1/M16A1s. The very first thousand or so of AR15 select fire/M16s had a 1:14 twist. My Green Mountain 1:14 still shoots 55 grainers accurately. And speaking of Green Mountain Barrels they do make a M16A1 profile with either a 1:12 or 1:14. Also make a M16A2 profile with 1:7 twist. Just doesn't come with the front sight base.
CD

1:12 stabilizes up to 55gr FMJ yes. Throw a longer ogive bullet in there, say a Barnes TSX, and kiss accuracy goodbye. Although in a 20" barrel you do get more twists than a 16".

1:14 and a 55gr will tumble, or so I have been told. I'm sure it would work great for a 22LR conversion however

 

[pipboy344]

Pre A1 like slab sided? No forward assist?

 

[Mightyox04]

So even rarer.

 

[pipboy344]

So even rarer.

Again, no. All SP1s had it, Carbine version too. If I were building a great number of companies like Troy Industries, NoDak Spud, and Fulton Armory make them.

 

[Ikarus1]

How is it any rarer? They were the first and only civilian AR made for almost thirty years. They were incredibly popular and are still seen frequently in film & television production

The first 30 years was before the AWB of 1994. I never even handled an AR15 before 1997, and even then it was only Colt, Bushmaster, or Olympic. Low production numbers in all 3.

I would guess more AR15s have been produced in the last 5 years than in the past 40 combined.

 

[Mightyox04]

Again, no. All SP1s had it, Carbine version too.

So even rarer.

 

[pipboy344]

So even rarer.

No.

 

[GeorgeBush]

Is this gonna have triangular handguards and stuff? I got an alert from Brownells the other day that they were reproducing early furniture like that. Black, green, and brown.

 

[Mightyox04]

Is this gonna have triangular handguards and stuff? I got an alert from Brownells the other day that they were reproducing early furniture like that. Black, green, and brown.

No builds.

 

[pipboy344]

Is this gonna have triangular handguards and stuff? I got an alert from Brownells the other day that they were reproducing early furniture like that. Black, green, and brown.

They are. People on arfcom’s retro forum say the black is too dull in color and doesn’t feel right, though.

 

[Combat Diver]

A slick side SP1/M16 or FA M16A1 uppers and no fence lower can be had from Nodakspud. You'll still need to find the parts you want. Brownells also sells them as they finish the millings. Good luck in your search. There's a bunch of other guys that are building the same guns for their retro needs. Thats problably why you can't find a decide one.

http://www.nodakspud.com/AR Lowers.htm


CD

 

[pipboy344]

A slick side SP1/M16 or FA M16A1 uppers and no fence lower can be had from Nodakspud. You'll still need to find the parts you want. Brownells also sells them as they finish the millings. Good luck in your search. There's a bunch of other guys that are building the same guns for their retro needs. Thats problably why you can't find a decide one.

http://www.nodakspud.com/AR Lowers.htm


CD

I already stated that, I also said I don’t want to build

 

[Horerczy]

You could find a local willing to do the leg work if you buy the parts.

Otherwise you may just have to bite on one with an original shot out barrel and replace the barrel. Most of these guys selling know their gun is worth more to a collector if they say "all original parts" instead of listing a bunch of parts replaced to get it into proper working condition.

 

[pipboy344]

You could find a local willing to do the leg work if you buy the parts.

Otherwise you may just have to bite on one with an original shot out barrel and replace the barrel. Most of these guys selling know their gun is worth more to a collector if they say "all original parts" instead of listing a bunch of parts replaced to get it into proper working condition.

I’m just trying to find an SP1 I can trade for with what I have listed in the classifieds section

 

[Burt Gummer]

So, you don’t want to buy.
You don’t want to build.
You want a gun that if someone here had, apparently they don’t want to trade for what you have to offer.
You’ve got loads of stuff to trade because you don’t have the money.
Haven’t listed this stuff for sale to try and raise the money?
Have I got all that right?

 

[NKD]

After reading this I feel like the least picky dude the Lord hath ever created.

Just hand me an AR (any AR, rails or no rails) and point me towards stuff to shoot at and somebody make a "beeping" sound, and I am happy.
Hell, I'll even bring cash money!

 

[pipboy344]

So, you don’t want to buy.
You don’t want to build.
You want a gun that if someone here had, apparently they don’t want to trade for what you have to offer.
You’ve got loads of stuff to trade because you don’t have the money.
Haven’t listed this stuff for sale to try and raise the money?
Have I got all that right?

No one wants to buy anything except the Mosin

 

[Ikarus1]

No one wants to buy anything except the Mosin

I will give you at least tree-fiddy for it....as long as it's a war-time Izhevsk round reciever model in perfect condition, still in cosmoline.

 

[rotorhead]

EVERY gun shop & pawn shop in SC plus a few in NC. Called everyone and not a single AR that is both rifle length AND lacks a rail. Been looking for a Colt SP1 or at least an M16A2 clone for years and can never find anything except at shows where everyone thinks their shot out garbage is gold, or tries to pass off single parts as “rare”. Everyone online says just to build clones over the course of yearsView attachment 26623

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, the reason you're having trouble finding what you want, at least initially, is that they are, in fact, fairly rare these days.

Think of it as a '72 Nova. Back in the mid 70s they were still fairly common and not that expensive. Fast forward 45 years or so and mow they are hard to find, rare and you'll pay out of your nostrils to get one. And that's with cash because no one is willing to part with their rare item for random other things in trade. If they do part with it, they wants the cash.

Your situation is very similar. Not only are you looking for something which, despite your heartfelt objections, just isn't plentiful these days, but you've also narrowed your options of payment to things that apparently, no one is interested in. At least not interested in enough to trade for their rare (these days) item.

It's frustrating, I know. Personally I'd love it if someone traded me a wine red 1974 Les Paul Custom for my 2015 Epiphone Sheraton II, but no one seems to be biting on the offer as of yet, so I know the feeling...

Your options, most of which are self-inflicted, are few right now. In order to successfully snag what you're looking for you are going to have to understand that yes, they are indeed fairly rare these days and sweeten your bids accordingly.

And remember: the fact that other people may not be interested in what you have to trade is not a fault of theirs. It's just they way it is.

May the blessings of that one magical deal fall upon you.

 

[Ikarus1]

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, the reason you're having trouble finding what you want, at least initially, is that they are, in fact, fairly rare these days.

Think of it as a '72 Nova. Back in the mid 70s they were still fairly common and not that expensive. Fast forward 45 years or so and mow they are hard to find, rare and you'll pay out of your nostrils to get one. And that's with cash because no one is willing to part with their rare item for random other things in trade. If they do part with it, they wants the cash.

And, just like a 72 Nova, what you want is an outdated, underwhelming, desirable only for it's appearance, low compression POS. That's why they discontinued making them. They're only cool if they're modified. Or a special model.

 

[pipboy344]

And, just like a 72 Nova, what you want is an outdated, underwhelming, desirable only for it's appearance, low compression POS. That's why they discontinued making them. They're only cool if they're modified. Or a special model.

Ok, knock that off. I like what I like and i’m good with what I like.

 

[Ikarus1]

Ok, knock that shit off. I like what I like and i’m good with what I like.

understood. Just understand that you are in the very small minority of people who want throwback ARs complete and out the door for cheap. Colt is selling what you want. $2500 and take it to a smith who will mod it to an A2.

 

[pipboy344]

understood. Just understand that you are in the very small minority of people who want throwback ARs complete and out the door for cheap.

I never said cheap, I just don’t have the cash and I do have stuff I don’t want or am willing to sacrifice

 

[Mightyox04]

And, just like a 72 Nova, what you want is an outdated, underwhelming, desirable only for it's appearance, low compression POS. That's why they discontinued making them. They're only cool if they're modified. Or a special model.

Damn! Ill give you part of that. I want an A1 but shorter barrel and faster twist rate. I like the forward assist. All Chevys even new ones are also underwhelming, outdated carp.

 

[Geezer]

Be mindful of the language, this is in the open forum.

 

[NCLivingBrit]

So you want the thing that's not common, but you want it to fall in your lap for a trade? You're also not willing to get the thing that is almost the thing and swap some bits.....

Yeah, good luck with that mate.

I want a unicorn chariot and people to sell me guns at 1% market value, but that's not going to happen either.

 

[pipboy344]

So you want the thing that's not common, but you want it to fall in your lap for a trade? You're also not willing to get the thing that is almost the thing and swap some bits.....

Yeah, good luck with that mate.

I want people to sell me guns at 1% market value, but that's not going to happen either.

No one makes “the thing that is almost the thing”. Every single pre-built retro rifle on the market is a frankengun I’d have to replace almost all the furniture, the barrel, probably the lower on, and refinish everything.

 

[Chuckman]

FWIW, I will never own anything Colt. Ever. They are the anathema to the American Dream. Just another government handout entitlement scavenger.

I get (and appreciate) that feeling, but they do hole the standard for the AR/M4 platform.

Plus their snake series revolvers are just awesome.

 

[SLM]

Why don't you sell some of the weapons you've posted for trade to give you some operational funding to buy what you want?

Is there a reason you can't sell them rather than trade?

Did I miss something in regards to your rational for trading rather than selling?

 

[Ikarus1]

I get (and appreciate) that feeling, but they do hole the standard for the AR/M4 platform.

Plus their snake series revolvers are just awesome.

FN has been making M4s for the military for the last 5 years. Colt patented the revolver, but Smith perfected it. Snake guns are awesome because they aren't made anymore (rare) and ended on a high note. $5000 for a nickel plated Python is stupid and is mostly due to Rick Grimes.

 

[pipboy344]

FN has been making M4s for the military for the last 5 years. Colt patented the revolver, but Smith perfected it. Snake guns are awesome because they aren't made anymore (rare) and ended on a high note.

and they’ve been making the best M16s for the past 25, that’s not what’s being discussed.

 

[Chuckman]

FN has been making M4s for the military for the last 5 years. Colt patented the revolver, but Smith perfected it. Snake guns are awesome because they aren't made anymore (rare) and ended on a high note. $5000 for a nickel plated Python is stupid and is mostly due to Rick Grimes.

They still make M4s and are still in the grab-bag of parts for MK12s and Mk18s as well as the SAMR.

I have a 6920; love it. As good an AR as I have ever shot/owned. But I am ambivalent about it being a Colt, but I get why you feel the way you do.

 

[SLM]

http://fidelisfirearms.com/2011/01/03/colt-m16-a2-20-fixed-carryhandle-upper/

http://fidelisfirearms.com/2014/03/31/colt-ar-15a4-5-56mm-rifle-lower-a2-stock-new-take-off/

 

[pipboy344]

Why don't you sell some of the weapons you've posted for trade to give you some operational funding to buy what you want?

Is there a reason you can't sell them rather than trade?

Did I miss something in regards to your rational for trading rather than selling?

I have in the past, no one is interested in anything except the Mosin