Why you do not use M193 on AR500 Steel at 50 Yards

Had a guy here once shooting my steel swingers. He was shooting M855, and one of the cores ricocheted and tore my uncles arm up.
 
I give up. I've found that whatever you put out at the range is gonna get shot. Stuff like '22 only' targets..forget it. Gonna get shot.
Get the 1/2" ar500 steel and hang it at distances and angles with some thought. It's all you can do. Someone gonna shoot it with a 30.06 at 50 yards. Gonna happen.
Got my USPSA cardboards stapled up and Grandpa out there blasting them with his new single-shot .410.
I've got coffee cans out there for brass collecting. That's right..gonna get shot.

I've become a big fan of the self healing plastic targets. Shoot em with anything and they don't care. I have a few of those and they're holding up well.
No glass. Absolutely not. Everyone knows that I've killed for less. Don't even let me see any glass..
And, if you shoot it, you gotta be able to pick it up and throw it away. No trash.
Other than that, gonna get shot.
 
Friday said:
I give up. I've found that whatever you put out at the range is gonna get shot. Stuff like '22 only' targets..forget it. Gonna get shot.
Get the 1/2" ar500 steel and hang it at distances and angles with some thought. It's all you can do. Someone gonna shoot it with a 30.06 at 50 yards. Gonna happen.
Got my USPSA cardboards stapled up and Grandpa out there blasting them with his new single-shot .410.
I've got coffee cans out there for brass collecting. That's right..gonna get shot.

I've become a big fan of the self healing plastic targets. Shoot em with anything and they don't care. I have a few of those and they're holding up well.
No glass. Absolutely not. Everyone knows that I've killed for less. Don't even let me see any glass..
And, if you shoot it, you gotta be able to pick it up and throw it away. No trash.
Other than that, gonna get shot.
Click to expand...

And this is why it’s such a pain in the butt to find anywhere to shoot. Morons ruining it.


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Dang. I was just going to set up some AR500 at about 50yds. Don't have a clear lane for 100yds yet. I guess they're going to be pistol only targets and maybe .22. Helps you appreciate the kind of energy in a M193 or any rifle round for that matter.
 
Shoot Steel makes an AR550 plate that hangs at an angle for that. They probably still recommend not shooting it with steel core. But I had a guy tell me that it's not the steel core but the velocity. (?) I have a 500 plate that is rated for up to 308 at 100yds. Shot it with some slow 223 handloads and it still surprised me how much energy and matter is being dissipated even at that range. Won't do it again. I had thought about buying one of those 550 plates and hanger for 50yds. No thanks. Too scary.
 
I have been answering this question for YEARS!
DO NOT engage steel with ANYTHING over 2,000 FPS at less than 100 yards, ESPECIALLY with steel core or AP ammo.
There’s two type of steel shooters: those that have had a slap back, and those that will.

I shoot steel a LOT! Almost exclusively, and I’ve had a piece of jacket off a 10mm 200gr FMJ round at 25 yards come back and cut my cheek. By the way...eye protection is PARAMOUNT!!


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1911gobang said:
I have been answering this question for YEARS!
DO NOT engage steel with ANYTHING over 2,000 FPS at less than 100 yards, ESPECIALLY with steel core or AP ammo.
There’s two type of steel shooters: those that have had a slap back, and those that will.

I shoot steel a LOT! Almost exclusively, and I’ve had a piece of jacket off a 10mm 200gr FMJ round at 25 yards come back and cut my cheek. By the way...eye protection is PARAMOUNT!!


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Click to expand...


Like a chronograph owner, those that have shot theirs and those that will :)

CD
 
Velocity is the killer as much or more than bullet type.

7.5"-11.5" barrel not going to do what a 20" barrel does, ime.
 
The laws of physics, tiny steel post with low mass inside the bullet traveling high velocity suddenly to a dead stop.
 
B00ger said:
And this is why it’s such a pain in the butt to find anywhere to shoot. Morons ruining it.
Click to expand...
Aw heck it's ok. They're having fun. They stick to the safety rules and keep the range clean. I'm happy with that.
 
I took the edge off my 1/2" AR500 plate at 100yrds just like that with 55g spire point hand-loads in a 16" barrel.
Here's a forklift fork (I was told they're tempered A2 steel) at 225 yards with M855 green tips. The for was cool, it mostly was shaded in the woods and a hit generated a 1' lit up orange ring, hits were easy to see.
Fork M855.JPG
 
jimmyjames8 said:
Shoot Steel makes an AR550 plate that hangs at an angle for that. They probably still recommend not shooting it with steel core. But I had a guy tell me that it's not the steel core but the velocity. (?) I have a 500 plate that is rated for up to 308 at 100yds. Shot it with some slow 223 handloads and it still surprised me how much energy and matter is being dissipated even at that range. Won't do it again. I had thought about buying one of those 550 plates and hanger for 50yds. No thanks. Too scary.
Click to expand...

There is no science in my post. I don't mean to imply anything is safe.

M193 is harder on Abrasion Resistant steel than M855 as long as it is above a certain velocity, lots of videos out there. .243 is real hard on AR500 around 70yds, I learned from an uninvited fudd. I believe the big issue with M855 at close range is safety, the steel core does not fragment. Generally due to velocity inside 100yds many rifle rounds turn into very small fragments of lead and copper that lose velocity pretty quickly, they are hell on target stands, concrete walls, and anything else out there beside and slightly in front of the target the majority of dispersion being an expanding circle traveling something like 10° or maybe it was 20° from the plate. M855 punches cute little almost needle holes in plain 3/8" at 100yds, good ol' 30/30 made huge craters and busted the hanger strap right off it, things boredom teaches us.

The divots that guy shows are hardly a worry for increased ricochet when used for low velocity rounds in my experience. Cheap non AR pistol targets from Caldwell will get the same from 22WM and no one bats an eye at shooting them with their centerfire pistol after. Big craters increase ricochet potential, like more than a 1/4" deep and wide. The edge stuff is what happens when you thermal cut AR, it loses it's temper/hardening/whatever in the heat affected zone, edge hits send fragments everywhere anyway, ZFG.

If you shoot steel enough you will get hit by stuff. Eye pro is mandatory, parking cars near the firing line is dumb, long sleeves and pants are a good idea. I have shot and been around a lot of rifle steel shooting, probably half at unsafe distances, never been hit by anything, still I'd never do it with uninvolved bystanders or people that didn't seem capable of understanding the inherent risks (given the choice I wouldn't shoot paper with those types). Been around even more pistol always at "safe" distances, have pulled lead and jackets out of my legs, been hit more, heard it whizzing by overhead, hitting shelters, rustling through the trees, and smacking the gravel. I knew before I ever shot a plate that these things could happen, there's always someone surprised by it. One of the worst combinations is fixed plates and slow bullets, I've seen 38Spl and 45Acp come back 20yds or more nearly intact only slightly deformed.
 
Beef15 said:
There is no science in my post. I don't mean to imply anything is safe.

M193 is harder on Abrasion Resistant steel than M855 as long as it is above a certain velocity, lots of videos out there. .243 is real hard on AR500 around 70yds, I learned from an uninvited fudd. I believe the big issue with M855 at close range is safety, the steel core does not fragment. Generally due to velocity inside 100yds many rifle rounds turn into very small fragments of lead and copper that lose velocity pretty quickly, they are hell on target stands, concrete walls, and anything else out there beside and slightly in front of the target the majority of dispersion being an expanding circle traveling something like 10° or maybe it was 20° from the plate. M855 punches cute little almost needle holes in plain 3/8" at 100yds, good ol' 30/30 made huge craters and busted the hanger strap right off it, things boredom teaches us.

The divots that guy shows are hardly a worry for increased ricochet when used for low velocity rounds in my experience. Cheap non AR pistol targets from Caldwell will get the same from 22WM and no one bats an eye at shooting them with their centerfire pistol after. Big craters increase ricochet potential, like more than a 1/4" deep and wide. The edge stuff is what happens when you thermal cut AR, it loses it's temper/hardening/whatever in the heat affected zone, edge hits send fragments everywhere anyway, ZFG.

If you shoot steel enough you will get hit by stuff. Eye pro is mandatory, parking cars near the firing line is dumb, long sleeves and pants are a good idea. I have shot and been around a lot of rifle steel shooting, probably half at unsafe distances, never been hit by anything, still I'd never do it with uninvolved bystanders or people that didn't seem capable of understanding the inherent risks (given the choice I wouldn't shoot paper with those types). Been around even more pistol always at "safe" distances, have pulled lead and jackets out of my legs, been hit more, heard it whizzing by overhead, hitting shelters, rustling through the trees, and smacking the gravel. I knew before I ever shot a plate that these things could happen, there's always someone surprised by it. One of the worst combinations is fixed plates and slow bullets, I've seen 38Spl and 45Acp come back 20yds or more nearly intact only slightly deformed.
Click to expand...

A suppressed gun on steel is an eye opener for people, because you can hear where it is all going!
 
Friday said:
And, if you shoot it, you gotta be able to pick it up and throw it away. No trash.
Click to expand...

Way back in the day we used to freeze milk cartons full of water. Take the carton off at home and put the ice blocks in a cooler. Set them up and watch them explode when hit.

Once we got 'caught' by a forest ranger (shooting in the forest was OK, leaving trash and crap around was not). He pointed to the wall of blocks and declared we were going to pick all of it up. When we asked how he told us not be smart asses and said he had our license plate numbers and would track us down if we didn't clean that up after he left.

Never received a ticket, so it must have melted before he returned.
 
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