Woman in coma for 10 years gives birth....

Shocking and completely not believable.

It could happen, I guess. It could also be that people noticed and perhaps hoped she would quietly miscarry so that the feces would not strike the air circulation machine.
 
While I agree this is an abhorrent crime, ou are all ignoring mandatory DNA samples from innocent people that the police have absolutely no evidence against.

No, you are making an inference from a negative: just because no one, previously, commented on the DNA sampling does not mean folks ignored that issue or concurred with it.

I'm only saying that you could have made your point just as well without this, to my mind, needlessly pejorative precursor.
 
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If I was in the suspect pool, I think I'd be OK with an independent, non .gov, lab doing the DNA analysis. Perhaps with a .gov analyst in on the review/evaluation without being allowed to retain samples.

or, get a DNA sample from the baby to rule in/out various biological markers to narrow the pool. i.e., no need to test the black dudes if daddy is Nordic.
 
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The DNA business is all about process of elimination. So were one (objectively innocent) to have had means & opportunity to carry out the crime; no reasonable alibi or other defense; and few other "persons of interest" under consideration/investigation, one might consider - with advice and oversight of counsel - volunteering.
 
The DNA business is all about process of elimination. So were one (objectively innocent) to have had means & opportunity to carry out the crime; no reasonable alibi or other defense; and few other "persons of interest" under consideration/investigation, one might consider - with advice and oversight of counsel - volunteering.

The one thing I have learned with the authorities in the US and elsewhere is never volunteer. Anything.

They have to prove you are guilty, not the other way around.
 
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Fair enough. I did qualify by saying "might," and with some protections in place.

I see where you're coming from here, but remember the police are not your friends. Something like this they are going to want to hang on someone fast and as recent cases have shown anyone handy will do, guilty or innocent.
 
I see where you're coming from here, but remember the police are not your friends. Something like this they are going to want to hang on someone fast and as recent cases have shown anyone handy will do, guilty or innocent.

I agree: that's why I stipulated in my scenario that it might be looking like the "anyone handy gambit" was already in play; thus, a DNA sample, however repugnant, might be a trump (no pun intended there) card.
 
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What a sick F___.
This is scum of the Earth and Im sure he'll be treated REALLY well in prison for being a rapist...
 
On a related note, if I'm ever in a coma for 10 years...hell 10 months...one of y'all needs to come unplug me.

I have a living will and advanced directive that spell that out, but I'm not sure the 'ol lady will go through with it,
 
On a related note, if I'm ever in a coma for 10 years...hell 10 months...one of y'all needs to come unplug me.

I have a living will and advanced directive that spell that out, but I'm not sure the 'ol lady will go through with it,

I'm your guy. I'll do the dirty work. But I'm going to need pre-payment. Maybe a nice S&W revolver? :D

I'll sign a contract even. :p
 
I'm your guy. I'll do the dirty work. But I'm going to need pre-payment. Maybe a nice S&W revolver? :D

I'll sign a contract even. :p

I'm darn near divested of S&W revolvers....I have a 642 and a 625...just realized I have more Ruger revolvers than S&W!
 
On a related note, if I'm ever in a coma for 10 years...hell 10 months...one of y'all needs to come unplug me.

I have a living will and advanced directive that spell that out, but I'm not sure the 'ol lady will go through with it,

Hell no!
Leave me alone!
I’m a disabled veteran. I am worth $1740.26 tax free, per month, every month I am alive.
Leave my plug right where it is and give that money to my nieces and nephews.

And if one of you all could make sure I’m nice and dosed up with morphine I’d appreciate it...
 
Hell no!
Leave me alone!
I’m a disabled veteran. I am worth $1740.26 tax free, per month, every month I am alive.
Leave my plug right where it is and give that money to my nieces and nephews.

And if one of you all could make sure I’m nice and dosed up with morphine I’d appreciate it...

I am an equal opportunity guy. Will sign a contract. Need me to check that plug? I'm your guy. :D
 
The crime may be heinous and horrific, but that still doesn't justify the wholesale dragnet surveillance demanding that people turn over their most private information to a govt (or any other) database, in an effort to clear themselves of a crime.

That is NOT how things work in this country and a stupid "warrant" by an idiot "judge" doesn't change that. The demand is nothing short of a true constitutional violation. It is search without evidence of a crime as well as being accused and made to prove ones innocence.

The people should absolutely refuse to comply and that "judge" needs to be removed, along with any cop that would try to take their DNA by force. This sort of thing really is line in sand territory. Taking it to court after the fact is insufficient as the irreparable damage would already have been done.
 
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I agree that the DNA testing should be more exculpatory in nature than incriminating. Work the other evidence, determine a suspect to a high degree of certainty, as in ready to charge him. Only test that one suspect for confirmation of guilt.
 
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If there was ever a case for abortion, this is it.
Huh? The woman is UNCONSCIOUS and the child will certainly be adopted by someone who wants a child and cannot have one. This is the most bizarre logic I have ever seen. You want to kill the kid because it is "guilty" of being conceived by some asshole and a vegetative woman?

Believe it or not, I am actually in favor of permitting some abortions in extreme cases of rape and incest. It is never "the right thing" but it should be permitted because we are so horribly screwed up as a race. So I am not an absolutist here.

I just find this kind of moral reasoning as strange as anything I have ever seen.
 
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The crime may be heinous and horrific, but that still doesn't justify the wholesale dragnet surveillance demanding that people turn over their most private information to a govt (or any other) database, in an effort to clear themselves of a crime.

That is NOT how things work in this country and a stupid "warrant" by an idiot "judge" doesn't change that. The demand is nothing short of a true constitutional violation. It is search without evidence of a crime as well as being accused and made to prove ones innocence.

The people should absolutely refuse to comply and that "judge" needs to be removed, along with any cop that would try to take their DNA by force. This sort of thing really is line in sand territory. Taking it to court after the fact is insufficient as the irreparable damage would already have been done.
I would be in favor of a kind of serial (one after another) DNA test of the males in there, with the stipulation that the results of all but the perp be destroyed......, I think. This is a difficult case, for sure.
 
I would be in favor of a kind of serial (one after another) DNA test of the males in there, with the stipulation that the results of all but the perp be destroyed......, I think. This is a difficult case, for sure.
Nope. That's still accusing someone and demanding they submit to invasion in order to prove their innocence. Assurances that the data won't be saved doesn't change this. It runs afoul of the whole premise of the legal system of burden of proof being on the state, probable cause, and search and seizure, as well as the doctrine that it be better that the guilty get away than the innocent be violated.

The only thing that has changed is the technology that makes this sort of investigative process feasible. Saying that the protections don't apply is akin to saying the 2nd-A applies to muskets and not modern arms.
 
I agree that the DNA testing should be more exculpatory in nature than incriminating. Work the other evidence, determine a suspect to a high degree of certainty, as in ready to charge him. Only test that one suspect for confirmation of guilt.
This would be most easy to narrow down to a time frame of employment of men at the facility at the time range of when she was raped. However, all who submit to such testing to exonerate themselves should do so with the guidance of an attorney to ensure those samples and results are destroyed immediately after determining they're not genetically tied to the case.
 
With enough DNA info available already, isn't there a way to run the baby's and see what pops up?

Heck, send it to ancestry.com already.
 
With respect to the idea of testing to exonerate oneself, I can't envision the guilty party being willing to submit. Nor should someone be required to. If this technology didn't exist, this would be a non issue. From the standpoint of jurisprudence, it should be treated the same, as if it didn't.
 
Whoever did this should have his nuts cut off. He should not be allowed to raise that child but should be forced to pay for it. A sex offender has no business being around children.
In MA or CA he'd get court ordered visitation.
He should be dropped over the deepest edge of the grand canyon. Let the vultures feed on him.
 
Can this dna seizure be expanded to other rape cases? If a woman is raped at a college dorm, can dna be collected from all male students? All males within 5 miles? 10?
Why are they only looking at males??

Stay with me here....

Is it Not possible....for a female to have obtained a live sperm sample and artificially inseminate the woman in a coma??
Sounds crazy...but it's possible. And crazy things have happened!

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
 
What if the perp isn't working there any longer and no one knows where he went?? Guy could go unpunished and possibly repeat, this probably isn't his first strike....
Could have been a 'visitor' for another patient.
 
Why are they only looking at males??

Stay with me here....

Is it Not possible....for a female to have obtained a live sperm sample and artificially inseminate the woman in a coma??
Sounds crazy...but it's possible. And crazy things have happened!

DS

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Then let's not leave out immaculate conception or...
images
 
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PHOENIX (AP) -- A doctor examined an Arizona woman in a vegetative state nearly nine months before she gave birth but did not find that she was pregnant, and medical experts said Thursday that it's possible she displayed no outward signs that workers who cared for her every day would have noticed either.

Police are looking for her rapist and say it appears none of the staff members at a Phoenix long-term care facility knew about the pregnancy until the baby was born Dec. 29, a notion that has drawn skepticism. But the 29-year-old woman, who is described in a medical report as having tubes to feed her and help her breathe, may not have had a swollen belly, according to a doctor of fetal medicine.

While factors remain unknown, such as how far along she was, someone who is fed the same amount from a tube every day might not show any dramatic changes that would be noticed, especially by staffers who don't work with pregnant patients, said Dr. C. Kevin Huls, a clinical assistant professor and maternal-fetal medicine fellowship director at the University of Arizona College of Medicine-Phoenix.

The mother could actually lose weight in other places like her face or arms if a fetus is consuming nutrients, Huls added.

"A good way to understand it is that really, the baby's going to continue to grow even at the expense of the mom's nutrition," Huls said. "So, her weight may not change because she's not taking in additional calories. There may be changes to her body that are going to go undetected in a chronic care condition or at a facility like this."

The revelation that an incapacitated woman was sexually assaulted inside a care facility has horrified advocates for people with disabilities and the community at large. The provider's CEO resigned this week, and the state said the center has made safety changes.

A doctor examined the woman on April 16 and found "no change" in her health, writing that the exam was external only, according to Maricopa County Superior Court documents. Her mother submitted the results of the physical as part of an annual report that state law requires of legal guardians.

Court documents indicate the woman had been living at the facility since she was 3 years old, local media outlets reported.

Phoenix police learned of the pregnancy situation when they received a call on Dec. 29 about a newborn in distress at the Hacienda HealthCare facility. Officers launched a sex crime investigation when it was determined the mother was in a vegetative state, police spokesman Tommy Thompson said.

"She was not in a position to give consent to any of this," Thompson said.

The baby and the woman are recovering at an area hospital, and their conditions were not released.

It's possible the woman won't have any additional long-term complications from giving birth. Women in a vegetative state after accidents or strokes have successfully delivered babies, Huls said.

Her family, who are members of the San Carlos Apache tribe in southeastern Arizona, said in a statement through their attorney that they will care for the baby boy.

Phoenix police, meanwhile, have not ruled out any suspects in the sexual assault. They are gathering DNA samples from the facility's male staffers and have appealed to the public for any information.

It remains unclear to investigators if the woman was raped more than once.

"I know at least once she was sexually assaulted, which is way too many times," Thompson said.

The Hacienda intermediate care facility specializes in providing around-the-clock care for infants, children and young adults with developmental disabilities or who are "medically fragile."

Since the birth came to light, Hacienda HealthCare has implemented increased safety measures, including more than one staff member being present during patient interactions and more scrutiny of visitors.

The company has said it welcomes DNA testing of its male staffers and is cooperating in the investigation.
 
She’s been there for 10 years, and she’s been there since she was 3 years old. That math sucks too.

Parents will raise the child, so that’s good.

Will never understand the decision to have kept her on a ventilator for this long, and presumably now until she passes of some other complication in 5, part, or 50 years.
 
Makes me wonder why she was in the coma
She’s been there for 10 years, and she’s been there since she was 3 years old. That math sucks too.

Parents will raise the child, so that’s good.

Will never understand the decision to have kept her on a ventilator for this long, and presumably now until she passes of some other complication in 5, part, or 50 years.

The Hacienda intermediate care facility specializes in providing around-the-clock care for infants, children and young adults with developmental disabilities or who are "medically fragile

So my guess is she has been there since 3 and something happened for her to be in a coma at 19.
 
Makes me wonder why she was in the coma


The Hacienda intermediate care facility specializes in providing around-the-clock care for infants, children and young adults with developmental disabilities or who are "medically fragile

So my guess is she has been there since 3 and something happened for her to be in a coma at 19.

This is an interesting twist to the story. Based on the info in that article you posted above I'm going to assume (I know) that she had some sort of developmental disability and was in Hacienda's ICF program. ICF is "Intermediate Care Facility" and is a step down in care from state institution level, though it is considered institutional care by law. Then as you say she had the accident (earlier reports indicated a near-drowning) at 19 and has been comatose. Likely then she was moved to a Skilled Nursing Facility (SNF) with the same organization. I see from their website they offer both. They are separate levels of care with separate federal and state regs and funding structures, but people often move from one to the other and possibly back again depending on their condition.

Either way, I expect there are state regulators crawling all over that company right now. As they should be given the circumstances.
 
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