Making the J frame fanbois mad….not me this time!

Some people are very sensitive about the fact that they can’t shoot a J frame revolver very well. Other people are irrationally adherent to the J frame as the best carry gun ever.

The fact is: both are not quite right.

Shooting a revolver is not easy. It shines a very bright light on one’s lack of skill with that handgun. That stings the ego of lots of folks. It is easy to shoot a revolver but it is very difficult to shoot a revolver well. A person who struggles with a J frame shouldn’t carry one until they get squared away. Or maybe just never carry one. People have lots of preferences and so forth. I wanted to love the Hellcat OSP. But it pinches my finger between the magazine and the frame when fired. Tried to mitigate it but couldn’t. Therefore it won’t work for me but it is a fine gun for lots of other folks.

Revolvers are the same way for many people. They are not easy to run. But if you are good at running one they are a viable option.

There are some dudes on this forum that have mastered the art of J frame revolvers. Acting as if they are not able to defend themselves adequately is asinine. But, people seem to want to do so because admitting that revolvers are viable hurts their ego because the revolver isn’t viable for them.

There is a time and place for J frames but I find a small semi auto to be better for me in most situations.

What this requires is for all sides to take a moment of reflection. Emotional attachment to equipment doesn’t make a whole lot of sense when shooters come in all shapes, sizes, backgrounds, ability, etc. A lot of ink and tears have been spilt to justify one’s personal preferences and that won’t change anytime soon.
 
I can only presume what it says, and the eye candy isn't holding my attention well enough, so I will just give the obvious answer to solve it all:


S&W 351C

or perhaps

S&W 43C


Now you can carry the J frame and with those models, lord help if you can't shoot it well(ish)....

Everyone (noone) happy?
 
I respect them. Like SOTG says, they are a real challenge. Take one to a range full of decent shooters and watch them flail.
I personally enjoy the challenge and have seen them used to great effect. By people like SOTG, lol.
I don't have one but would love a LW bobbed gun. Sleek and simple. A handy tool, in my view.

5 thumpers in the hands of someone competent is a whole lot more than nothing.
"Hey man, there's an easy victim behind these five giant hollow points".
 
I carried one for years as a backup piece. During day time qualifications we went back to the 25yd line and fired 10 rounds. Back then I was decent with the J frame. Stopped carrying it the year Glock 43 came out. Carried it out couple years ago for old time sake. At 10yd it was horrible 🤣.
 
NKD said:
I respect them. Like SOTG says, they are a real challenge. Take one to a range full of decent shooters and watch them flail.
I personally enjoy the challenge and have seen them used to great effect. By people like SOTG, lol.
I don't have one but would love a LW bobbed gun. Sleek and simple. A handy tool, in my view.

5 thumpers in the hands of someone competent is a whole lot more than nothing.
"Hey man, there's an easy victim behind these five giant hollow points".
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I carry a G42 more than just about anything. Which, if we're being honest, is the J frame of semi-auto carry guns. 😁

And that's okay because a LOT of us carry G42s cause they are so stinkin' convenient.
 
I learned to shoot j frames with mom’s 640 when I was a teen. We used to shoot matches on Tuesday nights at the local range and I’d compete in several divisions, including the concealed carry division with this. Back then it wore Uncle Mikes rubber sticks that gave a full grip. This is a smooooooth shooter. She gave me the gun for Christmas 8 or 9 years ago before she passed. Today it wears a set of Eagle stocks. It’s a pussycat with 38s and a flash bang with 125gr magnums.

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I think it made learning the 642 a little easier. Plate racks at 20 yards are do-able, but you have to pay attention. It certainly thumps my palm harder than the 640. I feel confident with it.

IMG_0042.jpeg
 
Studentofthegun said:
I carry a G42 more than just about anything. Which, if we're being honest, is the J frame of semi-auto carry guns. 😁

And that's okay because a LOT of us carry G42s cause they are so stinkin' convenient.
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Me too. 99% of the time.
 
I'm not a great shot with most guns. I will always love j frames and fully understand that it's the Indian and not the arrow. I grew up with the little j frame type cap guns and i knew back then that i would own one when i was older and i was right, it's pure nostalgia for me.
 
I don't know much about old S&W pieces. I've had this 36-1 in nickel hangin around for a coupla decades now.
No particular reason I've been keepin it outside of it just being a very utilitarian piece I picked it up at a Fun Show sommers.
The trigger is schweet and it's very accurate so a few have gotten their CCW with it. There's an old Airweight hangin around as well.
I pick'em up onceinnawhile and they shoot nice but any more they just feel weird in my hand.. 🥴 🤠

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Same here with the nostalgia. The old Dragnet TV shows and similar.

Plus when I was probably 10-12 years old I was with my dad and next door neighbor as they were splitting and stacking some firewood.

Neighbor says “stand back copperhead”. He pulled a snub nose .38 from his back pocket and fired one shot blowing the copperhead’s head into oblivion.

Speaking of the revolver I said “can I hold that?” My dad agreed but “only for a minute”. Neighbor opened the cylinder emptied it and handed it to me.

Been liking snub .38 revolvers since then.BA4D637C-8A2B-4469-944E-1309C5B1BA82.jpeg
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
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Who is this clown? Need great sights at 7 yards? Internals are like a Swiss watch? While there is merit to some of the things he says, people like him probably ruin more shooters than make them better. The cat ears on his hearing protection really said all about him that I need to know.
 
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Etruett said:
Who is this clown? Need great sights at 7 yards? Internals are like a Swiss watch? While there is merit to some of the things he says, people like him probably ruin more shooters than make them better. The cat ears on his hearing protection really said all about him that I need to know.
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He has a couple of good channels on Youtube about self protection. The main channel breaks down actual self defense and LE encounters caught on video. It is worthwhile watching.
 
RR said:
Are we not gonna comment on the cat ears on his earpro? 😂
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I've noticed that and there were some guys cross-dressing as 'french maids' at (I think Desert) Brutality. I'm assuming it's some sort of anime/furry thing us older folk just don't understand, and I'm OK with that. I don't want to understand that any more than I do j-frames.
 
Jayne said:
I've noticed that and there were some guys cross-dressing as 'french maids' at (I think Desert) Brutality. I'm assuming it's some sort of anime/furry thing us older folk just don't understand, and I'm OK with that. I don't want to understand that any more than I do j-frames.
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Some of those “Brutality” matches are ran by that Karl Kasarda fella that’s a Satanist and Antifa sympathizer. He’s the guy who does InRange TV. He’s part of that cadre of people that are training the hardcore lefties to use firearms and tactical gear.

There’s a massive thread about him on Arfcom. Some of the social media crowd wear little things to signal to others what they are about and where their politics lie.

We must not forget that there are antifa folks training and would like nothing better to use that training on people that simply disagree with them. People like most of us here that just want to be left alone. So, stay frosty and all that stuff.
 
I'm good enough with mine that I know what I can and can't do with it. The fact is they are indeed hard guns to shoot well.

Over the decades I've seen guys do amazing things with them. I saw an old guy (at least I thought he was old back then) who had spent his career in the Treasury Department use one with Jedi like speed and accuracy. The old goat was damned good and his gun was beat up with a cut hammer spur and tape on the grip. I've also seen guys who couldn't handle them safely and chock it off as "good enough for a belly gun." Indians and arrows and all that.

It's easy enough to demonstrate that a full size, full capacity handgun is easier to shoot and that a tiny pocket gun is easier to carry but everyone has to decide for themselves what they need or want. If power and accuracy was all that matters we'd all carry safari rifles and if portability was king we'd all carry .25 Baby Browning. Life is more complicated than that.

The J Frame is enjoying a surge in popularity right now and there's plenty of experts to tell why their opinions about them are better than yours. Lots of guys really do know better than me and the guys who know it all because they've "been there done that" don't all agree. It's enough to give me an opinion about the horse they rode in on but this is a family friendly venue.
 
Studentofthegun said:
Some of those “Brutality” matches are ran by that Karl Kasarda fella that’s a Satanist and Antifa sympathizer. He’s the guy who does InRange TV. He’s part of that cadre of people that are training the hardcore lefties to use firearms and tactical gear.

There’s a massive thread about him on Arfcom. Some of the social media crowd wear little things to signal to others what they are about and where their politics lie.

We must not forget that there are antifa folks training and would like nothing better to use that training on people that simply disagree with them. People like most of us here that just want to be left alone. So, stay frosty and all that stuff.
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I suddenly foresee a dark and dangerous future involving head to head death matches, one side in furry onesies, the other dressed like they're going to a Hawaiian lu 'au, everyone wearing plates and a nasty snarl on their face.

Truth stranger than fiction.
 
commiecuriocollector said:
I suddenly foresee a dark and dangerous future involving head to head death matches, one side in furry onesies, the other dressed like they're going to a Hawaiian lu 'au, everyone wearing plates and a nasty snarl on their face.

Truth stranger than fiction.
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What side am I supposed to be on if I am wearing khaki pants and a button up shirt?

These times are so confusing.
 
Studentofthegun said:
What side am I supposed to be on if I am wearing khaki pants and a button up shirt?

These times are so confusing.
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This is why I like walking around in jeans and a T-shirt that says "They Can't Arrest Us All"

People never really know which "They" I mean.
 
I used to work for an rv dealership where one of the things I had to do every morning was check and see if anyone had broken into the rvs overnight for a place to sleep (or destroy the bathroom) - id have to walk into all of the rvs because especially the 40+footers someone could be hiding in a bathroom or sleeping in a bunk room - I always preferred to have my 642 going through the rvs instead of a semi auto but that’s 1 very specific example where a small revolver would serve better than a semi auto - it’s just like a phone booth but longer lol
 
Studentofthegun said:
Shooting a revolver is not easy.
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It all depends on how you were brought up with handguns, no black/white statement on that subject will ever be correct. I was issued my first revolver in 1969, bought my first J frame in 1970, been shooting them ever since, and find it easy. I am sure some other people with different backgrounds do not.
 
stiab said:
It all depends on how you were brought up with handguns, no black/white statement on that subject will ever be correct. I was issued my first revolver in 1969, bought my first J frame in 1970, been shooting them ever since, and find it easy. I am sure some other people with different backgrounds do not.
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You're right. I should have said that compared to a semi-auto, most people find shooting a revolver to be more difficult.

Of all the new shooters I've taught over the years, only a couple seemed to find shooting a handgun well "easy". Most people really have to practice a lot before it becomes second nature.
 
Studentofthegun said:
You're right. I should have said that compared to a semi-auto, most people find shooting a revolver to be more difficult.

Of all the new shooters I've taught over the years, only a couple seemed to find shooting a handgun well "easy". Most people really have to practice a lot before it becomes second nature.
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Physics is a cruel mistress-a high bore axis combined with a 11-12 pound long DA trigger pull, poor ergonomics and virtually invisible sights make j frames a terrible choice in general for marksmanship.
Combined with an unpleasant recoil (especially with the aluminum frames) .
I have been carrying since 1990 and I have carried at one time a Model 36 and a Model 642 and practiced diligently. 25 rounds was my limit on those things before it “wasn’t fun”. By contrast I can put a100 rounds out of my Glock 42 and feel sad the fun is over. The key to shooting well is to practice. I am hopeful the enhanced S&W revolver in 32 with actual sights will save some new shooters from the “what you need is a revolver little lady” scenario where some old FUDD turns them off from shooting.
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
Physics is a cruel mistress-a high bore axis combined with a 11-12 pound long DA trigger pull, poor ergonomics and virtually invisible sights make j frames a terrible choice in general for marksmanship.
Combined with an unpleasant recoil (especially with the aluminum frames) .
I have been carrying since 1990 and I have carried at one time a Model 36 and a Model 642 and practiced diligently. 25 rounds was my limit on those things before it “wasn’t fun”. By contrast I can put a100 rounds out of my Glock 42 and feel sad the fun is over. The key to shooting well is to practice. I am hopeful the enhanced S&W revolver in 32 with actual sights will save some new shooters from the “what you need is a revolver little lady” scenario where some old FUDD turns them off from shooting.
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I would argue the high bore axis. I’ve found that I can get a very high grip on a concealed hammer revolver. Sometimes I’ll even wrap my left thumb around the back of the pistol.

I learned this watching Jerry Miculek videos.

It does turn the flip into a palm smack in the lightweight guns.
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
Physics is a cruel mistress-a high bore axis combined with a 11-12 pound long DA trigger pull, poor ergonomics and virtually invisible sights make j frames a terrible choice in general for marksmanship.
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Not every J frame has terrible sights. As far as marksmanship goes, it depends. Maybe you struggle to shoot nice groups. I don’t.

keepcalmandcarryon said:
Combined with an unpleasant recoil (especially with the aluminum frames) .
I have been carrying since 1990 and I have carried at one time a Model 36 and a Model 642 and practiced diligently. 25 rounds was my limit on those things before it “wasn’t fun”.
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That is partly because you are comparing .38 special to .380.

We get it. You’ve made it abundantly clear that you think revolvers suck, but that’s more about your personal limitations and preferences than the viability of a revolver as a carry gun.

Everybody has limitations. I know I do. Part of the journey of being a student of the gun is accepting them. So simply accept it rather than trying to put down another person’s perfectly acceptable choice in carry gun. Or don’t. Whatever.

Let’s take Jerry Miculek as an example. Jerry is a living legend. He’s a wonderful fellow and one would probably think that despite his age, he has no limitations. Which is reasonable because at one time I thought he might be a cyborg. Once I got to know him it’s clear that he’s human, just a very exceptional one.

Jerry once shot Metal Madness which requires targets be shot in a specific order. Vertically arranged steel targets…not horizontal. Bottom line: he wasn’t very good at it. I’m better at it than he is. There are small children better at it than him. But if he practiced a bit I am CERTAIN he’d be amazing. It’s just that vertical targets aren’t something that’s common in competitions. And Jerry ain’t a slouch at shooting steel…

Jerry is a really nice guy and is a generational talent. But everyone has limitations.

You know what Jerry didn’t do? He didn’t say “this sport is stupid and it sucks”. He said it was super fun and a great way to get new shooters into the shooting sports. Jerry is a good man and he gets it.

I realize that telling you this won’t make a dent. You’re the kind of guy that will argue against John Travis about 1911 stuff so there’s no convincing you of anything. And that’s okay because we all have some kind of common ground. Like Glock 42s.

This response is primarily for folks that get emotionally attached to their opinions to the extent that they become needlessly exclusionary. We should be trying to make the tent bigger, not smaller. But that’s my thing and not everyone else’s thing I guess.
 
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