Wrong address, and another innocent American dies

noway2 said:
More and more this one is reminding me of an idea that I floated in a previous thread: that unless specifically invited or requested by the occupant / owner that people's residence be deemed sovereign territory and the King's agents have no authority on or right to be there and must instead conduct their business in public.
Click to expand...

Um.....I thought the 4A covered this.




Let me put it this way. If a random stranger breaks in the door of my home....no.....
If a random stranger knocks on my door at 0200, and he looks through the door and sees me holding a gun....

I forget what I was going for here. I keep forgetting they were lawdogs. The Kings men.
 
All kidding aside, from the meme above, Occam's Razor works very well in general. In specific circumstances, however, it often breaks down.

Or, as stated, cuts the other way as well.
 
noway2 said:
Except, at least according to the article as I remember it, he did NOT have a gun on him.
Click to expand...
According to the family's attorney. And we all know attorneys never lie.
 
The Green Heron said:
Um.....I thought the 4A covered this.




Let me put it this way. If a random stranger breaks in the door of my home....no.....
If a random stranger knocks on my door at 0200, and he looks through the door and sees me holding a gun....

I forget what I was going for here. I keep forgetting they were lawdogs. The Kings men.
Click to expand...
954244dfeecb2eef0d624323bbc93c893cfd2debe18e92d2cf461ff25d0c2fcd.jpg
 
noway2 said:
More and more this one is reminding me of an idea that I floated in a previous thread: that unless specifically invited or requested by the occupant / owner that people's residence be deemed sovereign territory and the King's agents have no authority on or right to be there and must instead conduct their business in public.
Click to expand...

 
J R Green said:
Occam's razor. You have to ask yourself what is more reasonable, that the guy pointed a gun at police and they reacted or the police shot a guy through the door for no reason at all. If they go around shooting people all the time for no reason why are we even hearing about it?
Click to expand...
It sure isn't reasonable these Keystone cops went to the wrong address & killed a man!
 
J R Green said:
Attorneys say what you pay them to say. This being the Family's attorney you can choose how much merit to give him.
Click to expand...

Cops can lie too, I am just saying, especially if their pay depends on it. I guess it depends on how much merit you want to give to them.
 
Last edited:
Cpippen said:
Cops can lie too, I am just saying, especially if their pay depends on it. I guess it depends on how much merit you want to give to them.
Click to expand...
When a cop gets caught in a lie the repercussions are usually much worse than the infraction they are being accused of. I've seen a few LEO's lose their jobs over the years. The most prevalent reason was they lied to the investigators. Like I've said, once an officers word can't be trusted they become useless to a department.
 
Have you considered the stakes here are bigger than disgrace and unemployment?

What does the evidence say? They did collect evidence I hope.
 
Last edited:
Catfish said:
Have you considered the stakes here are bigger than disgrace and unemployment?

What does the evidence say? They did collect evidence I hope.
Click to expand...
Sure, if you buy that they just randomly decided, that after years with no incidents, this was the day to gun down an innocent citizen.

I'm sure they collected evidence and if they can survive the lynch mobs I'm sure we'll get to hear about it. For what it's worth anyway because I'm sure it will be disavowed.
 
J R Green said:
Sure, if you buy that they just randomly decided, that after years with no incidents, this was the day to gun down an innocent citizen.

I'm sure they collected evidence and if they can survive the lynch mobs I'm sure we'll get to hear about it. For what it's worth anyway because I'm sure it will be disavowed.
Click to expand...
I seriously believe it's past time for a few lynch mobs to put an end to some of this police state bullshit. My Daddy told me 40+ years ago the the only cure for this crap was bullets. I have no doubt if he were alive today he'd be ready to kick my ass for putting up with what this government & their paid militarized thugs are doing.
They had no business on this mans porch or property. That's established they were in the wrong place. In my mind & many others anything after that is "irrelevant" (your word). They murdered an innocent man & they should pay the highest price.
 
Last edited:
Occam's Razor my big ole butt.

Remember the LA version during the manhunt!

Hey, how'd that work out? No charges against the officers. That's right, now I remember. Good thing I could do that as a civilian and get away with it. Otherwise I'd wonder about special treatment. Good thing I didn't rush to judgement on that one. Just like this one.

2o7a208.jpg
 
J R Green said:
I for one maintain the same standards for everyone, not just police.
Click to expand...

Pardon me for being impolite, but I don't believe this. I don't think you mean it.

And I think it's a symptom of our sickness, that somehow earnestness has supplanted honesty. I am encouraged, however, by the sense that I'm not quite alone in that assessment.
 
Speaking of Occam's Razor...

Why would the victim point a gun at the police? And why wouldn't he put it down if so ordered? He had no criminal history and I don't believe there's been any mention of any kind of anti-government leanings. He even worked at one point for a municipality.
He supposedly had a Glock in the bedroom. Why didn't he bring that, instead of allegedly opting for a .22?
 
Last edited:
J R Green said:
1. The cops weren't trespassing.
2. Their mistake cost the man nothing. His actions cost him his life.
3. Police police other police all the time. How else would you ever know when one did wrong?
4. The mentality that some are above the law exists only in your, and a few other, fevered minds. Minds that can easily ignore logic and common sense.
Click to expand...

I don't think we know enough about this case yet to say the homeowners actions cost him his life. It sounds like it could be the PD's screw up that cost him his life.
 
An innocent man in his castle died. He didn't invite law enforcement to visit his home by calling and asking for them. I don't care if he walked up to the door armed or pointed the firearm out the window. Who knows what kind of neighborhood he resides in.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, changes the fact that the police, once again, shows up at the wrong address. It's negligent homicide in the best case scenario, and downright murder in the worst. The worst being that if they did shoot through the door with no visible target behind it.

The clock is ticking. It will eventually happen. One of these wrong address scenarios is going to really turn out to be a "wrong house" situation. In other words, the wrong house will become a "last house" for some or all of those present on the premises when it goes down.
 
thrillhill said:
Occam's Razor my big ole butt.

Remember the LA version during the manhunt!

Hey, how'd that work out? No charges against the officers. That's right, now I remember. Good thing I could do that as a civilian and get away with it. Otherwise I'd wonder about special treatment. Good thing I didn't rush to judgement on that one. Just like this one.

View attachment 17078
Click to expand...

Yeah...well, that's a tailgate of a pickup truck; not a door.

'Sides that, I'm sure the occupants weren't innocent...they were up to no good, had something to hide, were guilty of something...had to have been.

They had it coming...truck's blue; that's cultural appropriation.


Seriously, though, you are right. Me or you do that and we're getting an AWD w/ intent charge.
 
Last edited:
SPST said:
I don't think we know enough about this case yet to say the homeowners actions cost him his life. It sounds like it could be the PD's screw up that cost him his life.
Click to expand...

shocked.gif


If this one's lost @SPST , you know you've crossed the Rubicon.
 
SPST said:
I'm not like you. I don't think all LEO are bad, just some of them.
Click to expand...


Same here I honestly think a lot more of them are good rather than bad, but on this case they screwed up and it cost a man his life Plain and simple. I don't see otherwise with the facts given as of this time,that the actions were justified now if there is evidence to prove the Officers were right then I would hope it gets shared sooner rather than late to explain why a law abiding man in his own home gets shot in the middle of the night by the police.
 
Last edited:
SPST said:
I'm not like you. I don't think all LEO are bad, just some of them.
Click to expand...

Nope, I don't think all of LE is bad.

I just don't pretend the bad ones are as rare as unicorns and leprechaun farts or make excuses trying to prove such nonsense.
 
I have read a lot of this bantering back and forth. I became a cop in 1974 and severed my share of warrants and did raids on liquor houses ,drug houses ,whore houses( massage parlors)and THE MAIN THING WE WERE TOLD IN THE BRIEFING BEFORE THE RAIDS WAS "MAKE DAMN SURE THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT ADDRESS". The police in this matter F'up and should be held liable for their actions. I can say to you all that if anybody comes to my door and starts beating on the door in the middle of the night or in broad daylight My ass will have a gun with me when I answer the door. There are home invasions done daily all across this country and if it was dark outside and the man could not see the police( were they in plain clothes ,did they Knock and announce themselves as POLICE . We had to announce POLICE and then kick in the door. WTF do you expect the man to do. Some of you have said many different things about what happened and unless you read more than was written in the OP's post I can't see where you got your info from. I have not seen or heard anything about this on the news or anywhere. SO armchair quarter backs can say what they want to but unless you were there don't say what the man should have done or what you would have done because You probably have never been in this situation. I can say that I HAVE and its not something most of you ever want to be involved in.
 
Have gun-will travel said:
There are home invasions done daily all across this country and if it was dark outside and the man could not see the police( were they in plain clothes ,did they Knock and announce themselves as POLICE .
Click to expand...


Yep, and now the past several years we have the circumstances of hardened criminals performing home invasions while pretending to be law enforcement. Things are getting sketchy............... and some folks have prepared........ or are in the process of getting prepared. It doesn't bode well for the innocent homeowner or law enforcement when the wrong house is chosen and the homeowner is more than prepared.
 
SPM said:
Nope, I don't think all of LE is bad.

I just don't pretend the bad ones are as rare as unicorns and leprechaun farts or make excuses trying to prove such nonsense.
Click to expand...

(not directly at you) Think about how many people at your work are idiots, @ssholes, and maniacs. Now, figure the percentage. It's the same at everybody's work, even the police station.

As far as Occam's Razor, do you really think a previously law-abiding home owner chose that night as the time to get into a shootout with random LEO in his yard?
 
premise said:
(not directly at you) Think about how many people at your work are idiots, @ssholes, and maniacs. Now, figure the percentage. It's the same at everybody's work, even the police station.

As far as Occam's Razor, do you really think a previously law-abiding home owner chose that night as the time to get into a shootout with random LEO in his yard?
Click to expand...
Considering how many (presumably) law abiding people right here that thinks it's O K to point guns at people who knock on their door I'd say it's more likely than the alternative.
 
one thing I am sure of. Of the maybe half of this story we have actually heard, less than half of that is true.
This is no different than any other news story in that respect, or any other statement by the thin blue line
 
Last edited:
OverMountainMan said:
Pardon me for being impolite, but I don't believe this. I don't think you mean it.

And I think it's a symptom of our sickness, that somehow earnestness has supplanted honesty. I am encouraged, however, by the sense that I'm not quite alone in that assessment.
Click to expand...
I defy you to find one post by me that says or even implies there should be a different set of standards for police.
 
Wasn't there a case in Ohio (maybe 4 or so years ago) where the cops did a Boo Boo on the wrong address and the homeowner shot and killed one of them??
I tried my Google foo but my moves are somewhat limited....
 
Bailey Boat said:
Wasn't there a case in Ohio (maybe 4 or so years ago) where the cops did a Boo Boo on the wrong address and the homeowner shot and killed one of them??
I tried my Google foo but my moves are somewhat limited....
Click to expand...
Don't recall. I do recall Indiana making it a direct statute that declared people justified if they kill cops wrongfully entering their homes.

Bust in my door, I don't care if your shouting "police" (which doesn't make you so) or "Jesus Christ Superstar" it will become my absolute mission to make you DRT. In fact it's gotten to where as I've said thst even though I've done nothing to warrant such treatment that I feel the need to prepare against such intrusion, partly for that reason and partly because such a defense is preparedness for the WROL times that are coming, and are apparently a necessary part of the needed reset.

@Have gun-will travel all those things you mention conducting raids for are things the GD "government" has any business getting involved in.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom