Wrong address, and another innocent American dies
- Thread starter SPM
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I've said it a few times now and things like this are an example of why: I want to make my property such that you aren't coming on to it without great effort and great risk unless you're invited - and they includes even if you think you're the "law".
I understand why when I was looking for property I encountered many "compounds" where this was the case, replete with very tall fences, warning signs, razor wire, and I'm sure a lot of other things behind those.
I understand why when I was looking for property I encountered many "compounds" where this was the case, replete with very tall fences, warning signs, razor wire, and I'm sure a lot of other things behind those.
Z
Zedhound
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"Someone didn't take the time to analyze the address," attorney Murray Wells
its an address, not rocket science. kids match pictures and words all the time, a grown fkin man with a gun and badge should be well beyond that.
its an address, not rocket science. kids match pictures and words all the time, a grown fkin man with a gun and badge should be well beyond that.
TripleO7
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You can get in with a G.E.D. At least in the town I live in. I guess you have to be at least functionally illiterate One of them couldn't count houses one day, and accused my dog of biting someone, then lied about how he thought the person that called meant mine. I asked specific questions to my house and he answered in the affirmative. Liar. In the end instead of realizing his error, he stood and called me a liar in my own driveway. He didn't understand that generally a house address is based on the front door. Fortunately for me I witnessed the incident and was able to point him in the right direction. He was getting frustrated that I wouldn't fess up. I'd hate to think how that could have ended because I wasn't about to make any of it easy for him if he decided to go full retard, and it appeared to me that was about to happen. I'm not talking about fighting him, never do that. He would have taken a thrashing in court, personally as well as professionally. Especially after the police report was made fully public, which I would have done. All kinds of tidbits in there that would have made him and his department look foolish. Then I would have had an arrest record to top it all off.
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Not only that, but according to the article they shot through the door claiming he "had a gun". Two things: one you can bet your ass that if I'm answering the door and not expecting you, that I am damned well going to have a gun too. Two, by the same logic we could argue that the cops came to his door with guns so that made them a threat that the homeowner should have shot (through the door) to prevent their entry.
I can never get my head around this. I have to deal with addresses all the time. Never once in my 30 years of doing what I do have I showed up to measure the wrong house.
Maybe I am an address finding savant?
I always wonder who's fault it is? Is someone telling them the wrong address, or are the officers themselves just going to the wrong house?
Maybe I am an address finding savant?
I always wonder who's fault it is? Is someone telling them the wrong address, or are the officers themselves just going to the wrong house?
Getting the wrong house number is inexcusable. That said, there are 2 other houses in my subdivision that have the same number as mine (different streets obviously), and that messes up my mail. I can easily see myself meeting this end as I would also be coming to the door armed.
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
That would be good but we both know that's not going to happen.
And instead watch the family take revenge,
Elements reported so far, like Noor, based solely on a legalese point to a charge of involuntary manslaughter ... reckless and negligent actions leading to the death of a person without out intent or forethought. Stupidity is not a capital crime although some cases make you wonder but then we'd have a backlog on death row in many major metropolitan areas like Chicago, New York, DC, etc.
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I don't see how this is involuntary. They deliberately and with intent committed the action of deploying lethal force. I wouldn't say it was murder, and think msnslaughter is appropriate but when you say involuntary that means you didn't intentionally commit the act.
The guy who come to the door and points a gun at police has no responsibility at all I suppose.
Knocking on the wrong door isn't a threat to a homeowner. They could have been there for a lot of reasons and not one justifies pointing a gun at them.
Knocking on the wrong door isn't a threat to a homeowner. They could have been there for a lot of reasons and not one justifies pointing a gun at them.
TripleO7
Well-Known Member
I would think it would depend on how they "knocked". If it sounded to me like someone was trying to take down my door, I would probably be ready for a fight. Unless of course they announced that they were police and I could confirm that by sight. Which I can thanks to modern technology. And a peep hole.
What gives you the impression that he pointed a gun at any officer? All I saw in the linked story was the suggestion that he was shot through the door and another statement saying that he didn't even have a gun in his hands.
ETA Nevermind I re-read the story and see a paragraph that the officers reported him pointing one at them and told him to drop it, but it doesn't seem like an official statement. I hope there is video to corroborate one way or the other, but it won't absolve their error or responsibility.
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spittinfire
Well-Known Member
I was thinking this as well.
If you knock on my door in the middle of the night and get me out of bed I'll be answering the door holding a gun. I'll also look outside before I open the door to see exactly who got me out of bed.
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RedneckFur
Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace.
A pimple faced 17 year old kid driving a clapped out honda with a Papa John's sign on top can find the right address in 30 mins or less.
No excuse for law enforcement who has computers in every car, experienced officers, and all of their municipalities' public records at their fingertips.
No excuse for law enforcement who has computers in every car, experienced officers, and all of their municipalities' public records at their fingertips.
Common sense.
The fact that they shot him. Do you think the've never encountered a guy with a gun before? Do you think they shoot people through doors just on GP?
Police said he wouldn't drop the gun, gun was found. How many times has a story like this been reported by family and when the truth finally cones out we find that the family lied when recounting the story.
georgel
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The police say a rifle was pointed at them. The wife says the .22 that is normally in the front room was still where it normally sits.
The real story is yet to be disclosed. However, the series of events leading to the shooting of an "innocent" man, was precipitated by an error in police action.
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When people call for a pizza they want you to find them, so they give good directions, people ducking warrants, not so much.
I taught at a community college many years ago and most of the Criminal Justice/BLET students I encountered would have been very happy riding to and from campus in the short bus. Not all mind you, there are always exceptions to the rule, but enough to make you wonder what would happen the day they got a gun and a badge. And that was 40 years ago! Can't read house numbers? Sure, I can see that. 
What's more likely, they shot an unarmed man for no reason?, Or the guy did come to the door pointing a gun?
Per the article, others are saying they gave no such orders. Can't say that in my home, I'd give their "orders" much credence either. Sorry, your "authority" isn't recognized here. Go find a donut shop.
georgel
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These days it seems to be a toss up. (Justine Damond)
The police, by error of action, initiated a series of events that resulted in an "innocent" man dying. To infer that an innocent man, awoken from sleep, may or may have not acted "correctly" is to blame the victim for his own unnecessary death. Unless you are calling for blind submission when someone comes knocking on your door at night.
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First, I do agree that most of the time police are dealing with liars and of course Mike Brown is the poster child case for witnesses lying about the circumstances.
I did edit my post prior to your reply noting I acknowledge the police version.
To your questions, I don't assume those officers have had a gun pointed at them previously, but I agree that shooting through doors is most probably not their general practice.
However, the fact that they went to the wrong address and then could not identify the subject correctly makes me highly doubtful of their credibility.
Would you agree that it is common sense for police to anticipate that an innocent homeowner might come to the door armed when they are summoned to the door in the night?
georgel
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BTW, just to add more to the story apparently there was a dog involved, a pit bull, that managed not to die, although being shot at.
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Did they lie about being at the wrong address? If not why would their credibility be in question?
Again, I say do you think the police never encountered a man holding a gun before without shooting him? It took a deal more than him just having a gun to get shot.
When did knocking on a door become a raid?
While it makes little difference ... I am not clear where the mistake in the address occurred. Was it typed wrong on the warrant or did the LEOs read the warrant wrong or house number wrong?
And serving a warrant at almost midnight on a Sunday? Unless the person named was really ducking it that aint exactly a normal time.
And serving a warrant at almost midnight on a Sunday? Unless the person named was really ducking it that aint exactly a normal time.
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If & that's a big IF the man killed was in his house & innocent of no crime then he has every right to point his gun at a bunch of dangerous morons on his porch with no reason to be there. I answer my front door with a gun in my hand every time if i don't recognize who's there. Plain & simple case of the man should have opened fire first if these village idiots can't read house numbers.
Usually I stand in defense of the LEO. I can understand crap happens where you are given the wrong address and such and there is ultismtley a source of why they were at the wort place be it their own fault or otherwise an error in paperwork. That being said the warrant guys were geared up for a fight and may or may not have been forger happy, I guess we will have to hold judgement until body cam footage is reviewed, or did they mysteriously lose it or not have them on?
Ummm...nooooo...
That may happen with SOME customers, but I can tell you for a certainty from my own experience as a pizza delivery guy years ago that this is NOT the norm.
You have a name. You have an address. You have a phone number. And on one wall of the pizza delivery joints I worked, you had a paper map.
The police are AT LEAST as high tech as that.
As someone else said earlier...this ain't rocket science. The police spend a HUGE amount of their time driving from one location to another. They have the experience. "Someone didn't take the time to analyze the address" is so pitiful it doesn't even reach the level of an excuse. "Incredibly tragic" doesn't even BEGIN to describe the this.
The level of incompetency here is truly epic.
Then we have how many times the cops have lied........LEO's are just has dangerous as the criminals.
The best thing you can do is limit the exposure you have to Johnny Law.
Hide the wife and kids and lock up the dog.
Nothing worse than a moron with a gun that has the ability to kill everything in sight and get away with it.
Hide the wife and kids and lock up the dog.
Nothing worse than a moron with a gun that has the ability to kill everything in sight and get away with it.