.223 Precision Reloading

Reviving an old thread. Would you guys run with this or refine it more?

10 shots at 120 yards. Loaded on a progressive press, shot through a 14” rainier barrel no cool down.

73gr ELDM
23.5gr 8208

1.19 MOA with the flier
.68 MOA minus the flier


A048FBF7-0401-4E09-9AC0-46A67FF31ECF.jpeg
 
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What’s your goal? That would guide me if I was happy or not.


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Zbizzle911 said:
What’s your goal? That would guide me if I was happy or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Right now my goal is getting better in my precision reloading process for gas guns. This load will be a all purpose round to stock up on. Coyotes, whitetail, and range fun.
 
chrishf12 said:
Right now my goal is getting better in my precision reloading process for gas guns. This load will be a all purpose round to stock up on. Coyotes, whitetail, and range fun.
Click to expand...
I would try and repeat the group you shot above. If it can be replicated then start working on shrinking it. Being able to shoot consistent small groups is a sign of a good load, a load that shoots good in certain conditions means there's work to be done.
 
chrishf12 said:
Right now my goal is getting better in my precision reloading process for gas guns. This load will be a all purpose round to stock up on. Coyotes, whitetail, and range fun.
Click to expand...
Overall the group is quite good for your intended use. I've been running the 73gr ELDM's since mid 2018 in my 26" bolt gun. They perform awesome, both in accuracy and terminal performance on PDogs & Woodchucks. They are nowhere as explosive as a VMax or varmint style bullet, but they do tend to fragment/grenade with minimal exit wound channel at the velocities I'm using. For reference that is pushing it at 3025fps and an OAL of 2.550in.

In a 14.5" barrel I would guestimate muzzle near 2525-2550fps which should put you at a nice sweet spot for expansion and terminal performance. The minimum expansion threshold of 1600fps Hornady lists in their manual right would be around the 500yds range.

After the awesome experience in my bolt gun naturally I wanted to run them in my AR'stoo! That is when I found out that the 73gr ELDM can be a bit of a persnickety bullet to load for in an AR.
It typically likes to be loaded a touch longer than magazine length of 2.260in. Rainer barrels do tend to love the bullet, my 105" upper did). However, my two White Oak barrels not so much. ASC stainless steel magazine allow an OAL of 2.310in for reference and 2.300ish tends to be near the optimum OAL. Be careful going much above 23.5gr, XBR 8208 can go from ok to pressure signs very quickly.

A lot of folks use the Hornady 75gr BTHP as their general purpose bulk loading bullet as it is cheap and accurate. It is also not very sensitive to being loaded to 2.26in or less muck like the 77gr SMK. I see @Toprudder posted up a very fine group with load data back on pg 1.

I settled on running 77gr SMK's over 23.1gr of XBR 8208 in an LC case OAL 2.248in for all my AR uppers.
 
Bunsen said:
Overall the group is quite good for your intended use. I've been running the 73gr ELDM's since mid 2018 in my 26" bolt gun. They perform awesome, both in accuracy and terminal performance on PDogs & Woodchucks. They are nowhere as explosive as a VMax or varmint style bullet, but they do tend to fragment/grenade with minimal exit wound channel at the velocities I'm using. For reference that is pushing it at 3025fps and an OAL of 2.550in.

In a 14.5" barrel I would guestimate muzzle near 2525-2550fps which should put you at a nice sweet spot for expansion and terminal performance. The minimum expansion threshold of 1600fps Hornady lists in their manual right would be around the 500yds range.

After the awesome experience in my bolt gun naturally I wanted to run them in my AR'stoo! That is when I found out that the 73gr ELDM can be a bit of a persnickety bullet to load for in an AR.
It typically likes to be loaded a touch longer than magazine length of 2.260in. Rainer barrels do tend to love the bullet, my 105" upper did). However, my two White Oak barrels not so much. ASC stainless steel magazine allow an OAL of 2.310in for reference and 2.300ish tends to be near the optimum OAL. Be careful going much above 23.5gr, XBR 8208 can go from ok to pressure signs very quickly.

A lot of folks use the Hornady 75gr BTHP as their general purpose bulk loading bullet as it is cheap and accurate. It is also not very sensitive to being loaded to 2.26in or less muck like the 77gr SMK. I see @Toprudder posted up a very fine group with load data back on pg 1.

I settled on running 77gr SMK's over 23.1gr of XBR 8208 in an LC case OAL 2.248in for all my AR uppers.
Click to expand...

I agree with the seating differences of the eldm’s and smk’s. The tangent ogive is the way to go it seems when loading mag length.

69gr smk’s shoot great with 25gr varget, just over half moa groups from this barrel. I plan to play with the smk and tmk and 8208 a little more after I get this load settled down.
 
“Go to” loads for 5.56

75gr Speer Gold Dot or 75gr Speer TMJ (BC same for both)

LC 5.56 brass
CCI #41 primer
23.2 gr IMR 8208XBR*

*over max load
 
Hornady 55 FMJ or 52gr BTHP
25.0 H335
LC brass

Hornady 55 FMJ or 52gr BTHP
26.5 W748
LC brass

75 BTHP or 77 BTHP
24.0 TAC or 24.0 CFE223 or 23.2 XBR or 24.0 Varget or 24.0 Re15
LC brass

These are all loads I’ve used in reduced or full distance high power matches.
 
Zbizzle911 said:
I would try and repeat the group you shot above. If it can be replicated then start working on shrinking it. Being able to shoot consistent small groups is a sign of a good load, a load that shoots good in certain conditions means there's work to be done.
Click to expand...

Here is the followup 10 shot group from above. Not as great as the first. But it was also cold and I was not very comfortable at the bench. .99 MOA shot as fast as I could settle down between shots.

I think 20 19 rounds under 1moa seems to be a good load.

181EB036-3103-4E38-B4E0-D69643CD717E.jpeg
 
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chrishf12 said:
Here is the followup 10 shot group from above. Not as great as the first. But it was also cold and I was not very comfortable at the bench. .99 MOA shot as fast as I could settle down between shots.

I think 20 19 rounds under 1moa seems to be a good load.

View attachment 407039
Click to expand...
Looks like it will serve your intended purposes well. It is also a great starting point for working towards a smaller group. What is your current reloading step order? What dies are you using?
 
Zbizzle911 said:
Looks like it will serve your intended purposes well. It is also a great starting point for working towards a smaller group. What is your current reloading step order? What dies are you using?
Click to expand...

Currently I process all my brass on my 650 in one step.
Deprime
Swage
Size & trim dillon die
Expand case neck sinclair mandrel die.

Loading steps
Lyman M die. (Loading Hdy flat based bullets and didnt pull the die when i swapped to the ELDMs)
Case activated Charge die
Lee Seater
Lee FCD

Most of my dies are floated. But not the processing toolhead. I think my reloading improvements would be the following
- Uniform primer pockets & FH
- improve Runout using a better seater
- Test different primers with this load.

My biggest improvement would probably be more trigger time and working on myself.
 
chrishf12 said:
Currently I process all my brass on my 650 in one step.
Deprime
Swage
Size & trim dillon die
Expand case neck sinclair mandrel die.

Loading steps
Lyman M die. (Loading Hdy flat based bullets and didnt pull the die when i swapped to the ELDMs)
Case activated Charge die
Lee Seater
Lee FCD

Most of my dies are floated. But not the processing toolhead. I think my reloading improvements would be the following
- Uniform primer pockets & FH
- improve Runout using a better seater
- Test different primers with this load.

My biggest improvement would probably be more trigger time and working on myself.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good system. Have you tired it without the FCD? It seems to me that it would be counter productive to using the mandrel and then crimping. I know many recommend crimping in the AR to make sure there's no bullet setback, I also know there are many who don't crimp in the AR's and it works fine. How much are you expanding the neck with the mandrel? Whats your neck tension?
 
Zbizzle911 said:
Sounds like a good system. Have you tired it without the FCD? It seems to me that it would be counter productive to using the mandrel and then crimping. I know many recommend crimping in the AR to make sure there's no bullet setback, I also know there are many who don't crimp in the AR's and it works fine. How much are you expanding the neck with the mandrel? Whats your neck tension?
Click to expand...
I am using the smaller neck turning mandrel that gives .002 or .003 neck tension. However, the M die right now is further expanding and slightly belling the case for the flat base bullets I was loading. I have the lee FCD set light to remove the slight bell from the M die.

I should pull those 2 dies and try without them since I am loading BT bullets now. I havent had an issue not crimping AR rounds before.
 
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I appreciate the responses in here. I've been working up loads myself. 18" rainier heavy/fluted 223 wylde match barrel, 223 virgin win brass, cci 41 primers. From there things are varying. My best round so far is using pulled m855 rounds. I weighed the whole bag and used only the 62gr exact bullets and had them in the tumbler for a few days to polish out the paint. I was able to get sub MOA with them on 27.1gr of CFE 223. My best was hole on hole (always 100y, don't have anything else) with one flyer, but able to consistently get a half dollar sized group. Next I started using some RMR's new in house 69gr offering. I couldn't get anything worthy with CFE. With Varget I was getting some "ok" groups, but definitely not sub MOA. Done with those bullets. I just loaded up my first round of Hornady 68gr HPBT "match" bullets last night with Varget. Doing 23, 23.5, 24, 24.5, and 25gr. Going to the range tomorrow. I'll also try CFE with these bullets, as one load on load data did show a good group at 26.5gr with it.

Based on the info in here, I was going to purchase some SMK 77gr, but there are a few different offerings. Just 77gr BTHP? No cannelure? No TMK bullets are available anywhere. I did purchase 200 ELDM 73gr to give a try next, as well.
 
24.0-24.3gr of Varget or Reloder 15
77gr SMK (or Nosler CC)
CCI BR4 or Fed AR Match or Rem 7.5
2.260” (2.250” if running USGI mags, a little length is fine in PMag)

24.3gr is my preferred load; averages 2755fps from a 20” Proof barrel (stainless) in my AR15
 
So I tried the 68gr Hornday HPBT-Match bullets today with several loadings of CFE223. Out of my 18" 223 Wylde barrel, they were HORRIBLE! Worst groupings I have ever shot with this rifle. I got 1/4" groupings with Varget, then I try this powder and it was just gawd awful. Amazing how powder makes such a huge difference. I think I'm going to keep the CFE to just light bullet duty and not even try it with heavier bullets anymore.
 
clay_fv said:
So I tried the 68gr Hornday HPBT-Match bullets today with several loadings of CFE223. Out of my 18" 223 Wylde barrel, they were HORRIBLE! Worst groupings I have ever shot with this rifle. I got 1/4" groupings with Varget, then I try this powder and it was just gawd awful. Amazing how powder makes such a huge difference. I think I'm going to keep the CFE to just light bullet duty and not even try it with heavier bullets anymore.
Click to expand...

For the record, I’ve used Proof, Shilen, Rainier match and Ultramatch barrels and they all hated the 68gr Hornady. I’d try the 73gr ELD or even the 60gr VMax before using the 68gr BTHP

Or just go with the 69gr SMK. Always a winner in my rifles…25.8-26.0gr CFE223 IIRC. Can check my load work up notes later on
 
11B CIB said:
For the record, I’ve used Proof, Shilen, Rainier match and Ultramatch barrels and they all hated the 68gr Hornady. I’d try the 73gr ELD or even the 60gr VMax before using the 68gr BTHP

Or just go with the 69gr SMK. Always a winner in my rifles…25.8-26.0gr CFE223 IIRC. Can check my load work up notes later on
Click to expand...
I actually have 2 boxes of the 73 ELD-M that I'll be trying soon. I'm back to working on my 308 loads for a while, but up next will be ELD-M and I also have some 77gr SMKs on the way. I was actually very happy with the 68gr with Varget, but it turned to crap with the CFE! I am using an ultramatch barrel, so funny you mentioned that one. :)
 
I have a Ultramax from Ranier that is really accurate, It loves the Sierra bullets.
 
Update on my reloading for this cartridge. Since I got good results with Varget with the 68gr Hornady round, but such horrible results with CFE 223, I wanted to give another powder a shot. I managed to get some Accurate 2520 and put it behind this bullet. I got some great results. This should get another 100+ fps over Varget, since Varget ends up being compressed and is still well below max pressure.
68gr Hornady HPBT-M
Win 223 brass
Fed AR Match primer
25.6gr 2520
2.26 col
25.6gr_2520.jpg
 
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