357 Magnum with Hodgdon H110

Gnash.Hyena

Gnash.Hyena

Hyena with a Gun! Oh no!
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Hey y'all! I'm debating options on what to do. I handload 357 magnum/38 special to save money on ammo when shooting my Smith and Wesson Model 66-2 6"-barreled revolver. Back in the day I settled on Titegroup for 38 special and Hodgdon H110 for 357 magnum. The Titegroup is fantastic for 38 special so that's settled. The H110, however, I'm really finding is just too hot for 357 magnum. From what I can tell in my Hornady loading manual and researching online, 357 magnum is actually on the low end for what Hodgdon H110 can do. It seems really more geared towards 44 magnum.

My loads with 125gr Hornady XTP bullets are shooting 6" low and 2" to the left from the point of impact of my 158gr LSWC 38 special loads. They're actually reasonably comfortable to shoot, the recoil is manageable, but that's a pretty bad divergence in POI. They also make an absolutely extreme fireball and concussive blast that I'm actively concerned will cause damage to my Smith. On top of that, I'm really not impressed with the groupings I'm getting with the different loads I tried. The 158gr jacketed bullet loads though... They actively hurt to fire more than twelve or so rounds for me. I'm concerned I'm going to break the gun whenever I fire those loads, which is unfortunate as I'd actually like to stick to 158gr bullets for consistency's sake. The 110gr Hornady XTPs I got to try out, after purchasing I came to see that there *aren't* any H110 loads for 110gr bullets because it's unsafe to use the two together.

I feel like I'm doing something wrong by sticking with the H110. I don't feel like this gun should be recoiling this hard, and I'm concerned that I'm damaging my gun unduly, on top of feeling like I'm hitting my hands with a hammer every time I fire the handgun. So I'm coming to y'all for advice. Are there other powders you'd recommend trying instead of H110? I know that you can load Titegroup to 357 magnum pressures, though I haven't tried that yet.

I've got a little over 2lbs of H110 that I bought before coming to the realization that maybe I should try something else, that I'm debating selling/trading out for other powders that might do better.
 
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H110 or its same powder in different label, W296 is what I normally use in .357, .41, .44 Mag. Powder was designed for the .30 Carbine and .410 loads. I've also used 2400, Blue Dot, AA#7 and #9. 4227 can be used also. For mid range magnum loads keep lots of Unique on hand too (also .32ACP-.45 ACP, .38/.44 Special and 12 ga)

CD
 
H110/W296 needs to be run at Max & I'm not a fan of redlining my guns.

2400 is a classic go-to for .357. Meters well, doesn't require magnum primers & can be safely downloaded.
 
If you want a good powder that gives about 100-150 fps less velocity than H110, with 158gn bullets, I highly recommend BE86. It is also a good powder for 38spl as well. It is not position sensitive and gives consistent velocity.
 
HP38 is a good mid range load powder for .357. I use it in most of my handgun rounds now replacing Unique that was my previous favorite. I've used Blue Dot for hot loads in .357/.38 super, and 10mm. I only use H110 in .30 carbine.
 
Thanks y'all. :) It sounds like 2400 is the most widely-recommended powder by far, so ideally I'll try that next. BE86 and HP38 for intermediate loads may be worth trying as well for a lower recoiling 357 magnum round. Let me see what I can get ahold of. Eventually I'll update this with what I've tried.
 
Gnash.Hyena said:
Oh dear. That would be a problem, given sadly I have significantly more magnum SPP than normal SPP.
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You can still use magnum primers, but you won’t get the best performance. Alliant reccomends regular primers, as the pressure will spike sooner with magnums, and result In less velocity.
 
Toprudder said:
You can still use magnum primers, but you won’t get the best performance. Alliant reccomends regular primers, as the pressure will spike sooner with magnums, and result In less velocity.
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Ross Seyfried had an extended stay with Elmer Keith. He said he noticed two things...every closet had long guns stacked like cord wood and there wasn't a magnum primer on Elmer's property.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Ross Seyfried had an extended stay with Elmer Keith. He said he noticed two things...every closet had long guns stacked like cord wood and there wasn't a magnum primer on Elmer's property.
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Given who Elmer Keith is, that's impressive! I wish I'd known that years ago so I could stock up on more normal SPP, lol. Going forward, that's probably what I'll do.
 
You will never benefit the capability of the .357 out of a short barrel revolver. You might as well load a +P 38 special load. It will perform just as well for self defense and save you a lot of punishment at the range. There are some good bullets designed especially for short barrel revolvers both in loaded ammo and components. Right now @BatteryOaksBilly and I have decided to go with the Lehigh Defense bullets for 38/357 for self defense. Its a proven bullet and you don't have to break your wrist with a really hot load to benefit from its design. Either way you can't go wrong. You are not going to get a huge gain in velocity in a 2 1/2" barrel to justify using H110. I agree with the above group that 2400 is better but still not worth the blast in my opinion.
 
Etruett said:
You will never benefit the capability of the .357 out of a short barrel revolver. You might as well load a +P 38 special load. It will perform just as well for self defense and save you a lot of punishment at the range. There are some good bullets designed especially for short barrel revolvers both in loaded ammo and components. Right now @BatteryOaksBilly and I have decided to go with the Lehigh Defense bullets for 38/357 for self defense. Its a proven bullet and you don't have to break your wrist with a really hot load to benefit from its design. Either way you can't go wrong. You are not going to get a huge gain in velocity in a 2 1/2" barrel to justify using H110. I agree with the above group that 2400 is better but still not worth the blast in my opinion.
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I am using a 6" barreled revolver. The model is a Smith and Wesson model 66-2. The 2nd generation of that model of handgun.
 
Etruett said:
You will never benefit the capability of the .357 out of a short barrel revolver. You might as well load a +P 38 special load. It will perform just as well for self defense and save you a lot of punishment at the range. There are some good bullets designed especially for short barrel revolvers both in loaded ammo and components. Right now @BatteryOaksBilly and I have decided to go with the Lehigh Defense bullets for 38/357 for self defense. Its a proven bullet and you don't have to break your wrist with a really hot load to benefit from its design. Either way you can't go wrong. You are not going to get a huge gain in velocity in a 2 1/2" barrel to justify using H110. I agree with the above group that 2400 is better but still not worth the blast in my opinion.
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Which Lehigh Defense bullets do you use for 38/357?
 
Gnash.Hyena said:
I am using a 6" barreled revolver. The model is a Smith and Wesson model 66-2. The 2nd generation of that model of handgun.
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Actually, the second update to the original Model 66 (no dash). ;)
 
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Jeppo said:
Actually, the second update to the original Model 66 (no dash). ;)
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Ah, okay. That's fair. Still, it is a 6" barreled revolver, and I wanted to clarify that that is what the loads in question are being tailored to. I am hoping that's a long enough barrel to make a difference regarding and counteract the risen, valid-but-unrelated point about powder-to-barrel-length usefulness.
 
Sorry about that. Couldn’t help myself.

I’ve become a Model 66 snob since buying my first, two years ago this month. You own an excellent gun.
 
Jeppo said:
Sorry about that. Couldn’t help myself.

I’ve become a Model 66 snob since buying my first, two years ago this month. You own an excellent gun.
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Totally understandable, no worries. Thank you. It's a fantastic handgun. Everything about it, I like. In the display case in which it sat, it was the gun that stood out to me that day. It was everything I personally want in a working revolver, I got a good deal on it, and after doing my research on it I'm glad that if I only have one 357 revolver, it's the one I chose.

1-12-2017 SW_Model_66RS.jpg
 
That’d be my one choice too.
 
Gnash.Hyena said:
I am using a 6" barreled revolver. The model is a Smith and Wesson model 66-2. The 2nd generation of that model of handgun.
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Personally, I like the heavier bullets. Depending on what you are using the gun for would depend on how hard you need to push it. If you are just punching paper, there is no need for anything like H110 or 2400. You can use Unique and push a 158 gr bullet to 1000 FPS and have a very mild shooting load. The heavier bullet will also shoot a little higher than the lighter one. Up to 100 yards 1000 FPS is plenty fast. Pretty easy to get 1300-1400 FPS but for just target shooting, I don’t understand why you would
 
Etruett said:
Personally, I like the heavier bullets. Depending on what you are using the gun for would depend on how hard you need to push it. If you are just punching paper, there is no need for anything like H110 or 2400. You can use Unique and push a 158 gr bullet to 1000 FPS and have a very mild shooting load. The heavier bullet will also shoot a little higher than the lighter one. Up to 100 yards 1000 FPS is plenty fast. Pretty easy to get 1300-1400 FPS but for just target shooting, I don’t understand why you would
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Definitely solid advice, and stuff I want to follow you up on. I appreciate your giving it. The sole reason I'm sticking with the H110 right now is... that's what I have lol. The simple fact is I presently have a bit over 2lbs of it, and zero pounds of anything else. So until I can somehow manage to get another make/model of pistol powder, it's what I'm stuck with. That said, I am managing to get some Bullseye here soon that I might see what I can do with that for 357. I'm also finally getting a source for more 125gr plated/jacketed 357 bullets, so I may just keep running the 125s under the lightest H110 load I did, basically as some combat hammers, while using my Titegroup 38 special loads as my pleasant target loads.

Basically my questions are all stemming from "what should I try or look for when options open up again?" Lol.
 
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Gnash.Hyena said:
I finally got some more normal SPP, so that is no longer an issue! A fact for which I am absolutely overjoyed.

...Now I just gotta find me some 2400 powder lol.
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Let me check my stock. No promises, but might could be I'd trade you a pound of 2400 for a pound of that H110. I need to see how hard I can push a 265gr pill in my .41 Bisley SBH Hunter. 'N I do have a suppressed 8.5" .300BLK to feed as well.
 
Crazy Carl said:
Let me check my stock. No promises, but might could be I'd trade you a pound of 2400 for a pound of that H110. I need to see how hard I can push a 265gr pill in my .41 Bisley SBH Hunter. 'N I do have a suppressed 8.5" .300BLK to feed as well.
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Oh sweet. That'd actually be really cool of you. Let me know what you find.
 
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Two questions I have. 1.) The pressure numbers on H110 don't seem any higher, even though the FPS range is damn high. You can really push those bullets to some serious lengths out of any magnum! So, it just seems like a slower burning powder, to me. I still only use H110 for my serious magnum loads (44 and 460 always get H110), but has anyone noticed any issues from it? 2.) Has anyone used CFE Pistol for their 357 loads? I recently purchased 8lb of it and am loading a big stack of 125gr JHP behind 8gr of it. No chance to shoot it, just loading up an ammo box full. The new CFE stuff seems like a great powder, no matter what you're shooting. I'll barely shoot anything in our current climate though. :(
 
clay_fv said:
Two questions I have. 1.) The pressure numbers on H110 don't seem any higher, even though the FPS range is damn high. You can really push those bullets to some serious lengths out of any magnum! So, it just seems like a slower burning powder, to me. I still only use H110 for my serious magnum loads (44 and 460 always get H110), but has anyone noticed any issues from it? 2.) Has anyone used CFE Pistol for their 357 loads? I recently purchased 8lb of it and am loading a big stack of 125gr JHP behind 8gr of it. No chance to shoot it, just loading up an ammo box full. The new CFE stuff seems like a great powder, no matter what you're shooting. I'll barely shoot anything in our current climate though. :(
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1.) Maybe it's just that I'm not used to full power magnum handgun loads the way others are. I just wanted to double check with folks that I wasn't doing anything dumb (aside from asking stupid questions) myself. It seems like it's totally fine, just not super necessary for target shooting. But when it's all I have it's what I'll use, lol.
2.) I have not. I want a pound of CFE223 to try out so very much because supposedly it's amazing for all 5.56 loads. If CFE pistol is anything like CFE223 though, it's probably awesome.
 
Gnash.Hyena said:
1.) Maybe it's just that I'm not used to full power magnum handgun loads the way others are. I just wanted to double check with folks that I wasn't doing anything dumb (aside from asking stupid questions) myself. It seems like it's totally fine, just not super necessary for target shooting. But when it's all I have it's what I'll use, lol.
2.) I have not. I want a pound of CFE223 to try out so very much because supposedly it's amazing for all 5.56 loads. If CFE pistol is anything like CFE223 though, it's probably awesome.
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I've got CFE223 for my AR15 as well and went with everyone's suggestion, here, for that loading. I also got CFE Pistol for my "standard" 357, and 38 loadings as well. (Let's be real, whether it's damaging or not, it produces one hell'of'a fireball and you feel it!) Honestly though, 6gr of Autocomp for 125gr 38 special is the best load I've ever used. Insanely accurate for me. But it seems CFE Pistol will also serve 44 special as well. I haven't shot it, but I've got a nice bag of 44special brass so I might as well plan for it. It just seems CFE Pistol was kinda my best "do it all" powder, so I went ahead and bought an 8lb jug of it.
 
Crazy Carl said:
Let me check my stock. No promises, but might could be I'd trade you a pound of 2400 for a pound of that H110. I need to see how hard I can push a 265gr pill in my .41 Bisley SBH Hunter. 'N I do have a suppressed 8.5" .300BLK to feed as well.
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H110 is my go to for 300BLK supers but works for subs as well. I mainly shoot suppressed, 8.5-10.5 barrels.
 
Jerzsubbie said:
H110 is my go to for 300BLK supers but works for subs as well. I mainly shoot suppressed, 8.5-10.5 barrels.
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I've got several pounds of AA1680 earmarked for .357 Maximum cruise missiles & suppressed .300BLK & would probably use the H110 for for some silly 265gr .41 Mag loads.

2400 is my go-to for .41 Mag, along with a little Unique every now & again.
 
clay_fv said:
The pressure numbers on H110 don't seem any higher, even though the FPS range is damn high. You can really push those bullets to some serious lengths out of any magnum! So, it just seems like a slower burning powder, to me.
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If you are wondering why the pressures are close to the same as other powders, but the velocity is much higher, it is because the pressures listed are peak pressures (the limiting factor for how much charge) but the velocity is related to the “area under the curve”. Fast powders peak quicker, and the pressure then drops quicker, as the bullet is still traveling down the barrel. Slow powders don’t drop in pressure as much before the bullet leaves the barrel.
 
Only thing I don't like about H110/W296 is its having to be bouncing off the rev limiter to be safely used. I know they're the bomb for certain things, but not being able to throttle 'em back makes 'em a one trick pony & not necessarily my favorite trick at that, at least with my single action revolvers. I'd heard it recommended for .300BLK, so I laid some back for when I do get around to loading some.
 
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Crazy Carl said:
Only thing I don't like about H110/W296 is its having to be bouncing off the rev limiter to be safely used.
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Great analogy! My only question about this, is if it causes any more wear/tear vs shooting a high level of HP-38/Autocomp/CFE Pistol. I only load my "kill 'em all" 357 loads with H110. The fireball is huge and you feel "sparks" hit you all over when you use it. I like loading those "regular" rounds with all the other powders. I'd just like to know that when I do use that H110, that I'm not damaging my gun anymore than I am if I use any other powder. I guess the same could be said for my 44mag, but it seems there is no middle ground for my 460. LOL
 
44 grains of H110-296 is big fun in the .500 S&W with a 500 grain Cast Performance Gas Check......The birds stop singing....
Massive doses in the 3 1/2 inch Freedom Arms .45 Colt are Big Fun.
 
clay_fv said:
Great analogy! My only question about this, is if it causes any more wear/tear vs shooting a high level of HP-38/Autocomp/CFE Pistol. I only load my "kill 'em all" 357 loads with H110. The fireball is huge and you feel "sparks" hit you all over when you use it. I like loading those "regular" rounds with all the other powders. I'd just like to know that when I do use that H110, that I'm not damaging my gun anymore than I am if I use any other powder. I guess the same could be said for my 44mag, but it seems there is no middle ground for my 460. LOL
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No idea. .460? Yowch. I don't dig recoil that much, 'course I know they're big heavy guns, which is why I like to hot rod my .41 Mag SBH Hunter. It's so heavy it just soaks up the recoil. I will have a .414 Super Mag built & while it's a beast, it ain't nowhere near the modern big boomers.

You oughtta see the light show my .357 Max with a stiff pour of IMR4227 pushing a 200gr 1500+ fps produces at night. The b/c gap flash is stunning 😎 2400's supposed to produce even more flash than 4227 & I've thought about loading some up with it, for nightime shenanigans 'round the next camp fire.
 
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I reload for a 357, 44 and 460 mag. It seems H110 is the go to for all of these. The 357, though, seems to have such a large range of "basic" loadings. Of course, I also have some 44 special shells, just like 38 special. Just never loaded them/used them. Lots of variance there. I think the lower level with the 460 is shooting 45 colt, and even 454. From my hand, there's little difference between a fully loaded 44mag and 460. I think that comes down to the brake and grip built into the 460 though. Both are extremely accurate though. Did I mention "fun"? LOL The 357 feels like a pea shooter after shooting either, though.
 
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