Amelia Earhart's plane found?

RetiredUSNChief

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After almost 87 years, they MAY have found the modified Lockheed Electra 10E that Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan crashed somewhere near Howland Island.

I've always thought that they likely crashed in the Pacific Ocean in the vicinity of Howland Island, just based on the radio contact with the ship they were supposed to meet there. The whole "crash landed on another island" theory many people pursued was more likely to be romantic fantasy.

Anyway, Tony Romeo lead the search aboard the Deep Sea Vision and scanned more than 5,200 square miles of ocean floor centered around Howland Island and within a month had found the shape of ani airplane on sonar within 100 miles of the island. As far as they can tell, the images captured seem to conform to that expected of the aircraft they were flying at the time. However, until the next part of the expedition is carried out, which will involve actually getting a visual on whatever they found by sonar, they won't know for sure.

When will the next expedition take place? All the article says is "in the near future".

The question afterwards, if confirmed, will be how to salvage the aircraft. They believe that it should be in the Smithsonian.

I, however, believe some may have grounds to object. Warships, for example, are generally considered gravesites at sea and protected as such. The Titanic, though not a warship, was proclaimed to be a protected wreck site by the Titanic Memorial Act of 1986.

Though she does not have any direct living descendants, she was survived by her husband and his children (her step-children), David Binney Putnam and George Palmer Putnam, Jr., who passed away in 1992 and 2013 respectively. She was close to them. Both of them had at children, and in the case of George Jr., at least 10 grandchildren and 11 great grandchildren. Her sister Grace Muriel Earhart Morrissey lived to 1998 and had two children, a son and a daughter. Both are deceased now, but the son, Pvt. David Allyn Morrisey left behind a wife and five children. Daughter Amy Otis Morrissey I can't find any information on.




If this DOES turn out to be an airplane, it's distinct shape would be easily identified at an Electra 10E, and the registry number "NR16020" would be plainly located in several places on the aircraft: on both wings (top starboard and bottom port) and on the outboard sides of both rudders.

There were also unique modifications made to the aircraft, as well. It was one of 15 Model 10E's built by Lockheed, and had serial number 1055. The rear window was replaced with sheet aluminum. It carried four auxiliary fuel tanks in the passenger compartment, had a navigator's station aft of that, no passenger windows, a Sperry autopilot, and various radio/navigation equipment with extra batteries. The external antennas would have been unique, too.

Here are two pictures to illustrate the locations of the registry numbers:

Amelia Earhart's Electra 10E 2A.jpg

Amelia Earhart's Electra 10E 3A.jpg
 
Genuine question: who has jurisdiction to make such a protective declaration? Is it a matter of territorial waters, if any? Nation of registration of the aircraft?

When, at one point I considered law school as a mid-career change, I would have done so intending to pursue maritime law as a specialization.
 
As cool as it would be to see all some schmuck is doing is trying to figure out a way to make money off of it.
Got to bring it up to do that. A floating memorial (Pearl Harbor style) wouldn't do that in the middle of BFE.
 
On a ship the country who's flag flew last is the owner.
On a plane who knows.

Wasn't the SS Edmund Fitzgerald a US flag ship, but she sank in Canadian waters (near to the border): the wreck was protected under Ontario law if I'm not mistaken.

Not trying to be difficult, just curious.
 
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16,500 Ft down.
Verify if you can, then leave it.


 
After almost 87 years, they MAY have found the modified Lockheed Electra 10E that Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan crashed somewhere near Howland Island.

I've always thought that they likely crashed in the Pacific Ocean in the vicinity of Howland Island, just based on the radio contact with the ship they were supposed to meet there. The whole "crash landed on another island" theory many people pursued was more likely to be romantic fantasy.

Anyway, Tony Romeo lead the search aboard the Deep Sea Vision and scanned more than 5,200 square miles of ocean floor centered around Howland Island and within a month had found the shape of ani airplane on sonar within 100 miles of the island. As far as they can tell, the images captured seem to conform to that expected of the aircraft they were flying at the time. However, until the next part of the expedition is carried out, which will involve actually getting a visual on whatever they found by sonar, they won't know for sure.

When will the next expedition take place? All the article says is "in the near future".

The question afterwards, if confirmed, will be how to salvage the aircraft. They believe that it should be in the Smithsonian.

I, however, believe some may have grounds to object. Warships, for example, are generally considered gravesites at sea and protected as such. The Titanic, though not a warship, was proclaimed to be a protected wreck site by the Titanic Memorial Act of 1986.

Though she does not have any direct living descendants, she was survived by her husband and his children (her step-children), David Binney Putnam and George Palmer Putnam, Jr., who passed away in 1992 and 2013 respectively. She was close to them. Both of them had at children, and in the case of George Jr., at least 10 grandchildren and 11 great grandchildren. Her sister Grace Muriel Earhart Morrissey lived to 1998 and had two children, a son and a daughter. Both are deceased now, but the son, Pvt. David Allyn Morrisey left behind a wife and five children. Daughter Amy Otis Morrissey I can't find any information on.




If this DOES turn out to be an airplane, it's distinct shape would be easily identified at an Electra 10E, and the registry number "NR16020" would be plainly located in several places on the aircraft: on both wings (top starboard and bottom port) and on the outboard sides of both rudders.

There were also unique modifications made to the aircraft, as well. It was one of 15 Model 10E's built by Lockheed, and had serial number 1055. The rear window was replaced with sheet aluminum. It carried four auxiliary fuel tanks in the passenger compartment, had a navigator's station aft of that, no passenger windows, a Sperry autopilot, and various radio/navigation equipment with extra batteries. The external antennas would have been unique, too.

Here are two pictures to illustrate the locations of the registry numbers:

View attachment 734716

View attachment 734717
First, this is an EXCELLENT post

I say bring it up, put it in a museum
Be interesting if it really is hers and unlocks the mystery

Question - the removal of the windows for the aluminum, for weight reduction?
 
I imagine the windows were removed for weight considerations, and possibly structural strengthening, since the author fuel tanks brought total fuel capacity up to 1,151 gallons, or nearly 7,000 pounds.

And 80 gallons of lubricating oil.

I'm down with confirming the craft and leaving it. Especially if the body's are still in it.

As for Malay flight 370? They'll likely never find more than odd pieces of it, beyond any already found. An airliner hitting the ocean surface at a respectable three digit speed is going to seriously break up, and the pieces that sink will spread widely across the ocean bottom during their long journey down the 2 1/2 miles of ocean currents to the bottom.
 
The sonar photo looks like it is the plane and still relatively intact. Could they have run out of fuel and water landed, exited the aircraft and been floating on the surface for quite a while? They might not have even been in it when it sank.

I say document the crash site, leave it where it is.
 
On a ship the country who's flag flew last is the owner.
On a plane who knows.

Shipwrecks, it not always so clear. Per a 2004 law, a US military ships is owned by the US. If it's within 3 miles of a shore, it's owned by the US. If it's US-owned, the US claims it owns it (maritime law and other countries can dispute this in court). Private owned ships in international waters, the US said is fair game and it's finders-keepers (other countries dispute this). The US has tried to 'speed' the timeline as to what is considered abandoned so the US could claim a sunken ship but the courts have said that's actually a 4th amendment violation.

Bottom line, US owned or US military (which is US owned), regardless of location, US. Within 3 miles, US or owner depending on when it is found after sinking. Outside 3 miles and these parameters, anything is game. All events are subject to court.

I would not know this arcane, trivial BS if not for getting into Clive Cussler novels lol.

As for an AC, I have zero clue. But at >5,000 meters, the juice is not worth the squeeze. Let it lay in peace.
 
Shipwrecks, it not always so clear. Per a 2004 law, a US military ships is owned by the US. If it's within 3 miles of a shore, it's owned by the US. If it's US-owned, the US claims it owns it (maritime law and other countries can dispute this in court). Private owned ships in international waters, the US said is fair game and it's finders-keepers (other countries dispute this). The US has tried to 'speed' the timeline as to what is considered abandoned so the US could claim a sunken ship but the courts have said that's actually a 4th amendment violation.

Bottom line, US owned or US military (which is US owned), regardless of location, US. Within 3 miles, US or owner depending on when it is found after sinking. Outside 3 miles and these parameters, anything is game. All events are subject to court.

I would not know this arcane, trivial BS if not for getting into Clive Cussler novels lol.

As for an AC, I have zero clue. But at >5,000 meters, the juice is not worth the squeeze. Let it lay in peace.

Yeah...it's all "finders, keepers" until someone like an Indiana chicken farmer turned treasure hunter finds half a billion in gold/silver/emeralds in a sunken Spanish galleon. Then it's all "the state of FLORIDA owns the title to the wreck".

Or when an American company like Odyssey Marine Exploration finds the wreck of the Spanish Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes with half a billion in gold and silver, sunk by the British off the coast of Portugal, about 35 miles off the coast of Portugal, due south of Ohlão, in international waters. British ships which were deliberately sent to intercept this ship, and others, BECAUSE they carried a butt-ton of gold and silver from Peru, South America. Then it's all "SPAIN owns all that gold and silver". Oh, and a big FU to Peru who tried to claim it back.


EDIT:

I'm all for identifying and documenting the location and leaving the plane, and the bodies if they're still with the plane, exactly where they are if only to avoid all the personal and political BS that's bound to come of recovery attempts. If this IS the Electra 10E that Amelia and Fred flew, then the mystery has been solved. Leave them in peace, unless the surviving family wishes otherwise.
 
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If it was one big flying gas tank, and the tank was empty, seems like it would have floated a long time. Of course, once it started to sink, the pressure would have crushed any tank or compartment that had air.
 
If it was one big flying gas tank, and the tank was empty, seems like it would have floated a long time. Of course, once it started to sink, the pressure would have crushed any tank or compartment that had air.
Even if the tanks were full it might have floated a while, It was a pretty light airplane, and gas does float on water.
 
If it was one big flying gas tank, and the tank was empty, seems like it would have floated a long time. Of course, once it started to sink, the pressure would have crushed any tank or compartment that had air.

You would think. Landing speed for the Electra 10E was 64 mph. Trying to land on the ocean would have been exceptionally dangerous, even if they had a 5 point safety belt system, which I'm not sure they did. If they didn't...it wouldn't have been healthy AT ALL.

All it takes is a few minutes incapacitation/unconsciousness to die while water is flooding the aircraft and sinking.
 
Yeah...it's all "finders, keepers" until someone like an Indiana chicken farmer turned treasure hunter finds half a billion in gold/silver/emeralds in a sunken Spanish galleon. Then it's all "the state of FLORIDA owns the title to the wreck".

Or when an American company like Odyssey Marine Exploration finds the wreck of the Spanish Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes with half a billion in gold and silver, sunk by the British off the coast of Portugal, about 35 miles off the coast of Portugal, due south of Ohlão, in international waters. British ships which were deliberately sent to intercept this ship, and others, BECAUSE they carried a butt-ton of gold and silver from Peru, South America. Then it's all "SPAIN owns all that gold and silver". Oh, and a big FU to Peru who tried to claim it back.


EDIT:

I'm all for identifying and documenting the location and leaving the plane, and the bodies if they're still with the plane, exactly where they are if only to avoid all the personal and political BS that's bound to come of recovery attempts. If this IS the Electra 10E that Amelia and Fred flew, then the mystery has been solved. Leave them in peace, unless the surviving family wishes otherwise.

Governments only act with speed like that when money of that scale is at stake.


Find a gold bar in the ocean? STFU go home and melt it down. Do you lose value because it's no longer a "lost treasure"? Sure, did you have a good chunk of gold before you found it? Probably not.
 
Just pointing out, that sonar could also be a B-24.
Or a Lockheed Hudson
Lockheed_A-29_Hudson_USAAF_in_flight_c1941.jpg
 
My problem is the wing sweep. If it was just one wing then you could say it broke when it hit the water or seafloor.

But it doesnt seem very plausible that both of them would break at the exact same angle. We could also be interpreting the tail wrong...

Idk, kinda looks like a 1950s fighter to me.
 
Could also be a MiG.

We'll know more when they get to the next part of the expedition, which is to go down and visually see what's actually there.

At greater than 5,000 meters I wonder if they can. I understand the Titanic pushed the envelope of capabilities; however, that's been many years now, so who knows what new tech is available?
 
At greater than 5,000 meters I wonder if they can. I understand the Titanic pushed the envelope of capabilities; however, that's been many years now, so who knows what new tech is available?

There are assets which can get down there, no problems, and Deep Sea Vision has those assets. They don't have to send actual people, either. They can send remotes to take a look.

Deep Sea Vision uses the Hugin 6000 Autonomous Underwater Vehicle, capable of operating down to 6,000 meters. It's capabilities include the CathX Colour Camera and laser, an ultra high resolution camera system.

The tech available these days is truly amazing.
 
Part of the reason I said B24 is the well known poor ditching characteristics of the type. Upon impact with water, the nose crumples or breaks off and that can also change the sweep if the wings. Till they send some deep sea remote sensing vehicles, we're just speculating.
 
Here's a cool YouTube video from Anton Petrov on this particular finding.

Most of his videos revolve around science and astronomy, but they're all invariably scientific in nature.

This is about 17 1/2 minutes long, shorter without the end credits.

He's of the opinion this isn't Amelia Earhart's aircraft and points out a few reasons why.

 
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