Antivenom in Church?

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”

Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”
 
ES44AC said:
I'm not a fan of this, it's more of a Theatrical Church . Did you come for a Show or to Worship the Lord?
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I think one of the foundational scriptures they use is Phil 4:13, which is one of the most misused and misunderstood verses in the Bible. Yeah, not my cup of tea. That said, style differences are OK. I do not like the 25-piece rock band--er, excuse me, 'worship team'--found in mega churches, but it's OK. But I do think this is a bit showy.
 
Chuckman said:
I think one of the foundational scriptures they use is Phil 4:13, which is one of the most misused and misunderstood verses in the Bible. Yeah, not my cup of tea. That said, style differences are OK. I do not like the 25-piece rock band--er, excuse me, 'worship team'--found in mega churches, but it's OK. But I do think this is a bit showy.
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OK take this with a bucket of salt, since I'm not one to partake of the church anymore, but if you're a believer, I'm not sure it matters where you worship, how many folks are with you and how fancy the building is in either direction. You can meet your God in a palace or a paupers hovel, as long as he's your God and you're listening.

The problem to me is the money, attendance numbers, fancy digs, "making a show of it" and self aggrandizement seems to have thoroughly replaced the actual worship more often than not once you get any sizeable congregation.

Without true belief, religion turns into a racket where one monkey points to the sun and then says to his fellow "He told me to get His share from you on His behalf so he can put you in the queue for a reward later". There's a lot of that going round it seems.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
OK take this with a bucket of salt, since I'm not one to partake of the church anymore, but if you're a believer, I'm not sure it matters where you worship, how many folks are with you and how fancy the building is in either direction. You can meet your God in a palace or a paupers hovel, as long as he's your God and you're listening.

The problem to me is the money, attendance numbers, fancy digs, "making a show of it" and self aggrandizement seems to have thoroughly replaced the actual worship more often than not once you get any sizeable congregation.

Without true belief, religion turns into a racket where one monkey points to the sun and then says to his fellow "He told me to get His share from you on His behalf so he can put you in the queue for a reward later". There's a lot of that going round it seems.
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You're not wrong. (In my opinion). Jesus said "for where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there." Some people believe 'the people' is the church and you do not need to be in a building weekly; others believe it IS the building. Of course, there is an argument that both are true.

Some studies have shown we (the US specific, though I think this is generally true all over the world) are in a period of 'dechurching', but interestingly, the number of people calling themselves Christians or those who still proclaim to be Christian, has not significantly changed. One of the interpretations of this is that people have gotten fed up with 'the church' (small 'c') and have elected to engage in their faith elsewhere (home churches, pop-ups, etc.).
 
Chuckman said:
You're not wrong. (In my opinion). Jesus said "for where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there." Some people believe 'the people' is the church and you do not need to be in a building weekly; others believe it IS the building. Of course, there is an argument that both are true.

Some studies have shown we (the US specific, though I think this is generally true all over the world) are in a period of 'dechurching', but interestingly, the number of people calling themselves Christians or those who still proclaim to be Christian, has not significantly changed. One of the interpretations of this is that people have gotten fed up with 'the church' (small 'c') and have elected to engage in their faith elsewhere (home churches, pop-ups, etc.).
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IMO if Jesus came back tomorrow there'd be a good bit of scourging of "money changers" in a great many alleged temples.

You can't really blame people who actually follow his teachings for wanting not to be in that crowd if he shows up.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
OK take this with a bucket of salt, since I'm not one to partake of the church anymore, but if you're a believer, I'm not sure it matters where you worship, how many folks are with you and how fancy the building is in either direction. You can meet your God in a palace or a paupers hovel, as long as he's your God and you're listening.

The problem to me is the money, attendance numbers, fancy digs, "making a show of it" and self aggrandizement seems to have thoroughly replaced the actual worship more often than not once you get any sizeable congregation.

Without true belief, religion turns into a racket where one monkey points to the sun and then says to his fellow "He told me to get His share from you on His behalf so he can put you in the queue for a reward later". There's a lot of that going round it seems.
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Preacher man talking on TV, puttin' down the rock and roll
Wants me to send a donation, 'cause he's worried about my soul
He said, "Jesus walked on the water.", and I know that it's true
But sometimes I think that preacher man, would like to do a little walkin' too
 
ronn47 said:
Preacher man talking on TV, puttin' down the rock and roll
Wants me to send a donation, 'cause he's worried about my soul
He said, "Jesus walked on the water.", and I know that it's true
But sometimes I think that preacher man, would like to do a little walkin' too
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We've seen so much since then. Preacher man should carry this log chain too.
 
Man, like 50 of these snake dancing death worshippers have died. Actually, they all die. Then their sons do it and die as well. It's like a hemotoxic death cult.
I picture these canebreaks just chilling in the woods thinking "Man, I'd really like to test the faith of one of these idiots today".

I do respect their God given right to dance around and get bitten in the face by highly venomous snakes and then die a horrible painful death in front of their families, proving that their belief is dumb. Jim Jones level kooks!
 
NKD said:
Man, like 50 of these snake dancing death worshippers have died. Actually, they all die. Then their sons do it and die as well. It's like a hemotoxic death cult.
I picture these canebreaks just chilling in the woods thinking "Man, I'd really like to test the faith of one of these idiots today".

I do respect their God given right to dance around and get bitten in the face by highly venomous snakes and then die a horrible painful death in front of their families, proving that their belief is dumb. Jim Jones level kooks!
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Maybe they're just followers of Thusla Doom?
 
I have, what I believe, to be an extremely close relationship with Jesus and my faith. If He told me to grab a snake, or to not fear one, I would.

But, I’ve never even remotely had the idea to grab one, wave it around and say “Hey! Is it cool that I do this?” Because the answer is likely “no…dangernoodle not good. I specifically say that numerous times in the Bible. Just…no…”

God used an apostle being bitten with no I’ll effects as a sign to the heathens around him >at that specific time<. And he didn’t seek out the viper, it was just there. He didn’t flaunt it about thumbing his nose.

“Thou shalt not be stupid and do stupid things.” Book of Booger 1:3
 
What do the Uber faithful sheep say to themselves to justify continuing the kookyness when head kook gets bit?

Twas' the will of the great sky wizard?
He works in mysterious ways?
If he had only prayed harder?
He had it coming?
He thought it was a rat snake?
 
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Slacker said:
What do the Uber faithful sheep say to themselves to justify continuing the kookyness when head kook gets bit?

Twas' the will of the great sky wizard?
He works in mysterious ways?
If he had only prayed harder?
He had it coming?
He thought it was a rat snake?
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The big question is, why do you post in the chapel at all?

Serious question.
 
Chuckman said:
I think one of the foundational scriptures they use is Phil 4:13, which is one of the most misused and misunderstood verses in the Bible. Yeah, not my cup of tea. That said, style differences are OK. I do not like the 25-piece rock band--er, excuse me, 'worship team'--found in mega churches, but it's OK. But I do think this is a bit showy.
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My understanding is that the snake thing in church comes from the ending of Mark: “they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any early poison, it shall not hurt them…”. Commentaries say that the most reliable and oldest manuscripts don’t have the last eleven verses, and that it appears to have been added later. Without these verses, the book ends abruptly at 16:8. It’s thought by many that the original ending has been lost and someone perhaps not under inspiration created a new ending.

You certainly shouldn’t create a whole denomination or theology based on a handful of verses, especially those that have questionable origin and seem inconsistent with the other parts.

When I was a boy, there was a song on Country radio that was pretty funny; a couple visited a church where this was going on. When it came their turn to pick up the snake, the wife asks her husband, “Where is the back door?” and the husband replies, “Where do you think they want one?”.
 
Slacker said:
What do the Uber faithful sheep say to themselves to justify continuing the kookyness when head kook gets bit?

Twas' the will of the great sky wizard?
He works in mysterious ways?
If he had only prayed harder?
He had it coming?
He thought it was a rat snake?
Click to expand...
Well, I think they figure it out and get less kooky. But fear not, there are more being born every day. There are snake handlers that do this for fun and profit too, it’s a high-risk way to make a living.

In the big picture does it really matter for this guy? If our time here is all we have, well he was wrong about a bunch of stuff but fulfilled his role which was meaningless anyway. If our time here is just a momentary blip in our real existence, then that he died while professing his faith, even if he was doing it poorly, seems unlikely to cause him any incremental hardship in his transition to the next stage of his existence.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
We all do mate. King or commoner, sinner or saint.

Eternal life is about the worst possible curse I'd wish on someone.
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As a believer in eternal life I actually wonder what’s after what’s next.

Think about it, we’re inquisitive goal-oriented problem solvers. If that’s just a biological adaption then end of conversation, but if it’s planned and life is eternal, then do we transition to sit around and bask in the glory forever, or do we have something to achieve that we can’t comprehend today? I’m expecting a lot of surprises, my brother is expecting things to go to black, we still get along just fine.
 
That snake is just like the rest of us. Alter call went on too long; ain't no need to pass the offering plate around three times.

Church is over! I'm hungry and gotta get to "fish camp."
 
B00ger said:
I have, what I believe, to be an extremely close relationship with Jesus and my faith. If He told me to grab a snake, or to not fear one, I would.

But, I’ve never even remotely had the idea to grab one, wave it around and say “Hey! Is it cool that I do this?” Because the answer is likely “no…dangernoodle not good. I specifically say that numerous times in the Bible. Just…no…”

God used an apostle being bitten with no I’ll effects as a sign to the heathens around him >at that specific time<. And he didn’t seek out the viper, it was just there. He didn’t flaunt it about thumbing his nose.

“Thou shalt not be stupid and do stupid things.” Book of Booger 1:3
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Steven Irwin: Yeah, mate, I've worked with more dangerous snakes than anyone in the world and I've never been bitten. It's a gift. Now take this beauty roight over here...that's the rare flange headed razor back gater viper! One bite of this will take down the meanest crocodile, which would feed one of these beauties for months! I'm gonna just stick my finga up his arse...
 
GymB said:
As a believer in eternal life I actually wonder what’s after what’s next.

Think about it, we’re inquisitive goal-oriented problem solvers. If that’s just a biological adaption then end of conversation, but if it’s planned and life is eternal, then do we transition to sit around and bask in the glory forever, or do we have something to achieve that we can’t comprehend today? I’m expecting a lot of surprises, my brother is expecting things to go to black, we still get along just fine.
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Just a thought, not an answer by any means: but “eternity” is a measure of time, as in endless time. God is timeless and not bound by our concepts of time and the passage there of. So my thought is that the “God Eternal” we will experience is something we can’t even begin to fathom, no more than a fish can understand astrophysics.
 
The origin of snake handling in churches appears to be from isolated Appalachian mountains, where I suspect alcohol and lack of genetic diversity played a serious role. Kind of a religious "hold my beer" thing.

Scripturally, it apparently all hinges around a brain dead interpretation of Mark 16:18, "They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

This was ONE SIGN among several...it wasn't meant to be an advertisement. Basically these signs were the visible evidence of their good works in the name of the Lord. That when, for example, they heal people in His name, people will see this. Not that they did these things to SHOW people they were doing the work of the Lord, because that would be acting like the Pharisees.
 
GymB said:
As a believer in eternal life I actually wonder what’s after what’s next.

Think about it, we’re inquisitive goal-oriented problem solvers. If that’s just a biological adaption then end of conversation, but if it’s planned and life is eternal, then do we transition to sit around and bask in the glory forever, or do we have something to achieve that we can’t comprehend today? I’m expecting a lot of surprises, my brother is expecting things to go to black, we still get along just fine.
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I read a couple of books by Dr Michael Heiser mentioned recently by @Starkherz199.

Pretty illuminating about what’s next.

Just this alone kinda got my attention.

1 Corinthians 6:3

Do you not know we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
 
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GymB said:
As a believer in eternal life I actually wonder what’s after what’s next.

Think about it, we’re inquisitive goal-oriented problem solvers. If that’s just a biological adaption then end of conversation, but if it’s planned and life is eternal, then do we transition to sit around and bask in the glory forever, or do we have something to achieve that we can’t comprehend today? I’m expecting a lot of surprises, my brother is expecting things to go to black, we still get along just fine.
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Aside from my absolute inability to actually *believe* in the glory, can you think of anything more horrifying than to be adjacent to something so alien and huge and unknowable, forever? Your mind would break. After a certain level of different it doesn't matter if it's God or Cthulhu, we just can't parse the occurrence in any rational way.

I mean just the angels are so brain melting their first words are assurances. Now add ineffable, divine etc to that. Brain soup. Forever.

Edit: maybe this is Heaven. Your mind just pops like a weathered balloon and your lizard brain basks forever in the endless scalding torrent of divinity, but you don't have enough cognition left to fear it.

Just a note. While I may sound flippant I've thought about this. I'm not being dismissive I just lack formality. And the thought of the possibility of beings of such power and presence scares the living heck out of me.
 
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NCLivingBrit said:
Aside from my absolute inability to actually *believe* in the glory, can you think of anything more horrifying than to be adjacent to something so alien and huge and unknowable, forever? Your mind would break. After a certain level of different it doesn't matter if it's God or Cthulhu, we just can't parse the occurrence in any rational way.

I mean just the angels are so brain melting their first words are assurances. Now add ineffable, divine etc to that. Brain soup. Forever.

Edit: maybe this is Heaven. Your mind just pops like a weathered balloon and your lizard brain basks forever in the endless scalding torrent of divinity, but you don't have enough cognition left to fear it.

Just a note. While I may sound flippant I've thought about this. I'm not being dismissive I just lack formality. And the thought of the possibility of beings of such power and presence scares the living heck out of me.
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I can only imagine that we won’t have the constraints that we have today and that’ll it’ll not be so overwhelming as it seems from our current perspective. I take some comfort in the notion that there was a rebellion and exile, it means that it isn’t going to just be a long trippy weekend with nothing to do, there will be decisions and consequences, hence opportunities and challenges.
 
The biblical descriptions of heaven and glory has a lot to do with things being revealed and stuff like joy and happiness. Ain’t a whole lot in there about lizard brains exploding due to being overwhelmed. We will be outside of our current mental and physical constraints.

I’m pretty confident that the one who designed us had “the ability to hang out with me without exploding” programmed into the plan.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
The origin of snake handling in churches appears to be from isolated Appalachian mountains, where I suspect alcohol and lack of genetic diversity played a serious role. Kind of a religious "hold my beer" thing.

Scripturally, it apparently all hinges around a brain dead interpretation of Mark 16:18, "They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

This was ONE SIGN among several...it wasn't meant to be an advertisement. Basically these signs were the visible evidence of their good works in the name of the Lord. That when, for example, they heal people in His name, people will see this. Not that they did these things to SHOW people they were doing the work of the Lord, because that would be acting like the Pharisees.
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One could argue that that passage is prophetic and the snake handling part of it was fulfilled by Paul on Malta. Not that it couldn’t be fulfilled in other times and places, but Paul didn’t pick the snake up on purpose, which is the point some seem to miss.
 
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