Article: ATF Attempt Radical Change of Definitions for “Personal Collection”

During most of my life, one had to proactively decide and take specific action(s) in order to become a criminal. Now, while napping on my La-Z-Boy, I can become one. 😳
 
Who decides what the definition of "Profit" is? Of course the ATF will. The reference point will not be what the original purchase price was. It will be the lowest sell price for used that the ATF can find, thus making a sale of a firearm below original purchase price (a loss) being a sale for profit as it is higher than the lowest price they could find.
Selling a single firearm in like new condition with a pristine original case, at a price 25% below original purchase price could make of a felon under these new rules. The goal of gov't is to grow the power and scope of gov't while also turning as many people as possible into criminals.
 
I feel like a lot of people are ok with the government walking all over citizens as long as they are some kind of "criminal"

At this rate pretty soon everybody I know is going to be a criminal. Even the liberals I know use gas ranges and collect rainwater. I don't know any parents who want the government deciding what their kids get to learn. These goalposts areoving at an alarming rate and I don't think anybody will be safe for long.
 
Articles by ammoland.com are usually exaggerated somewhat for emphasis, but this rant about self defense is over the top.

Self defense has never been mentioned in the federal law and regulations regarding a Federal Firearms License. The fact self defense is not included in the proposed regulation is not due to some anti-gun conspiracy, but because there is no basis for doing so in the underlying law.
 
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Under the proposed changes, "for-profit" is pretty much whatever the ATF says it is.

If you keep a list of firearms and what you paid for them, you have established a baseline value that you can use to determine potential profit; thus being open to being considered "in the business" and therefore required to have an FFL to sell a firearm.

Trust us; we won't abuse the ambiguity of the rules.
 
Something to remember about the proposed rule is that the discussion on pages 24-25 indicates Presumptions that a Person is “Engaged in the Business” would apply to civil and administrative actions under 18 U.S.C. 924(d) to seize and forfeit firearms intended to be sold by persons engaged in the business without a license.

The presumptions do not apply to criminal actions for dealing in firearms without a license, except to potentially inform jurors about permissible inferences (see footnotes 60 and 61 on page 26).
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fishgutzy said:
Who decides what the definition of "Profit" is? Of course the ATF will.
Click to expand...
This. Mr AFT DOJ Lawyer is going to say, "When you went to make the deal you had zero dollars in your hand. When you walked away you had $1000. You must have made money. My highly trained (tm) Expert says you profited...". All the while you go further into the poorhouse defending against it.

Oh yeah, and they are just going to LOVE bills of sale. Nothing says money transaction better than a detailed description, signed in your own hand. Let IRS and its 86,000 agents in on the fun as well.
 
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What if I never sold them, but traded for items of equal value, therefore not making a profit?

ATF: Did you sell this for a profit?
Me: Nope, traded for something of equal value.... Could have been paper with pictures or presidents on it, cocaine, liquor, sexual favors, I don't really remember....
 
I noticed that the "Coinstar" machine at the local Food Lion will now pay out in Crypto.
 
I think the article is mostly hot air, but it wouldn’t hurt to add purchased for self defense as a carve out. Me, I only buy guns for fun at the range or study, some just happen to get used for self defense. Of course I don’t sell anyway, so doesn’t apply to me.
 
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Profit can be defined many ways. For example, if I have a M1A that I purchased in 1984 for $700 and sell it in 2023 for $1300, have I made a profit. In real terms, no, as the value of a dollar is less in 2023 than 1984. Plus there are costs associated with the selling that would turn that sale into a loss; cost of transportation and time to conduct the sale, depreciation on the safe used to store the weapon, etc. Now if you were keeping track of these items I would say you are in the business, but just selling an item for more than you paid for it, no.
 
If this goes through, I’ll have to start including a very overpriced box of ammo with each very underpriced firearm I decide to sell.
 
Well now ...we went from "law abiding" Americans to criminals. Interesting...criminals who don't follow the laws are off the hook.
Let's hope when we do become "criminals" we get the same treatment as they do..

-Snoopz
 
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