Article: New Mexico Gun Shop Seizes Polymer80 Pistol For Not Having A Serial Number

He should have contacted police while in the shop and filed a report. Demanded his property back or the arrest of the person who took the gun. Also would have demanded the phone number and name of the ATF agent the shop supposedly spoke with and I would have called them while police was on scene.

If they serialized the firearm and recorded with the ATF I would also file suit against the shop owner and who ever put the serial number on it.
 
Average Joe said:
He should have contacted police while in the shop and filed a report. Demanded his property back or the arrest of the person who took the gun. Also would have demanded the phone number and name of the ATF agent the shop supposedly spoke with and I would have called them while police was on scene.

If they serialized the firearm and recorded with the ATF I would also file suit against the shop owner and who ever put the serial number on it.
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Didn’t the recent change with 80% include the requirement for FFLs to add a serial number if they received one to work on? I don’t remember how it was worded to know if bringing one in to shop with/for would qualify.

But, they never should’ve had possession of it in the first place.
 
BigWaylon said:
Didn’t the recent change with 80% include the requirement for FFLs to add a serial number if they received one to work on? I don’t remember how it was worded to know if bringing one in to shop with/for would qualify.

But, they never should’ve had possession of it in the first place.
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You maybe correct. I’ll search real quick and see what I can find.
 
BigWaylon said:
Didn’t the recent change with 80% include the requirement for FFLs to add a serial number if they received one to work on? I don’t remember how it was worded to know if bringing one in to shop with/for would qualify.

But, they never should’ve had possession of it in the first place.
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The way I understand the rule change, FFL or gunsmiths who take a unserialized gun into inventory must serialize the gun before it is sold or returned. In this case, they gun was not being taken into inventory by the FFL. The guy was just looking for a holster and magazine.
 
Average Joe said:
The way I understand the rule change, FFL or gunsmiths who take a unserialized gun into inventory must serialize the gun before it is sold or returned. In this case, they gun was not being taken into inventory by the FFL. The guy was just looking for a holster and magazine.
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He's learned to buy online next time I bet.
 
Average Joe said:
The way I understand the rule change, FFL or gunsmiths who take a unserialized gun into inventory must serialize the gun before it is sold or returned. In this case, they gun was not being taken into inventory by the FFL. The guy was just looking for a holster and magazine.
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And the whole thing started when the store requested he bring the firearm in. Common, yes, but just stating that as how it really started.

I wonder what business they're going to get into now, since the just cancel their gun store.
 
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Average Joe said:
The way I understand the rule change, FFL or gunsmiths who take a unserialized gun into inventory must serialize the gun before it is sold or returned. In this case, they gun was not being taken into inventory by the FFL. The guy was just looking for a holster and magazine.
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That was my understanding. So while the ATF is still dumb, I see their standpoint. However FFL got it, they’ve been in possession of it, so they need to record its transfer correctly. ATF can’t say just give that gun you held back, it’s basically like they took it in for work (but did so illegally). But since that means he is now ineligible, their original, illegal taking is the reason this whole fiasco exists. There might not be a good way to legally retrieve his P80, but he should get a lot more cash than the gun is worth for the trouble.
 
Moral of the story.

* Don't take a P80 to a gunsmith

* If you DO take it to a gunsmith, before you go, scratch a "1" in the little plate with scribe or a buzz-graver


(Since I'm on a Reddit suspension, I can't post there that the gun store is Shooters Den that stole the guys gun)
 
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Mathieu18 said:
That was my understanding. So while the ATF is still dumb, I see their standpoint. However FFL got it, they’ve been in possession of it, so they need to record its transfer correctly. ATF can’t say just give that gun you held back, it’s basically like they took it in for work (but did so illegally). But since that means he is now ineligible, their original, illegal taking is the reason this whole fiasco exists. There might not be a good way to legally retrieve his P80, but he should get a lot more cash than the gun is worth for the trouble.
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I'm thinking it's better for him to build a new, more/better one. I'm sure there are plenty who will help fund that.
Meanwhile, funding for the lawsuit would be good too. Make an example.
 
Giggle may have removed negative reviews on their site, but they're getting slaughtered on other reviews sites. Family-owned, feel sorry for them in a way.
New Mexico, isn't that where the governor just banned carry of any sort? Even lefties are saying that's unconstitutional.
 
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georgel said:
Giggle may have removed negative on their site, but they're getting slaughtered on other reviews sites. Family-owned, feel sorry for them in a way.
New Mexico, isn't that where the governor just banned carry of any sort? Even lefties are saying that's unconstitutional.
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Yup, just for Albuquerque county. Can’t help but wonder relationships but it’s hard for me to see who could pull those strings.

Also, I’d like to better know their response to the guy. They kinda pigeon holed themselves (see above thoughts on ATF rationale) but they could have said sorry, here’s $300 for another and a $1000 credit when you turn 21. But if they’re just being jerks over their own mistake, screw em.
 
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BigWaylon said:
Didn’t the recent change with 80% include the requirement for FFLs to add a serial number if they received one to work on? I don’t remember how it was worded to know if bringing one in to shop with/for would qualify.

But, they never should’ve had possession of it in the first place.
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I wonder how that'd work if you just gave a frame a nonsensical serial number, like some engraved poop emojis.
 
I’d argue the theft is more a civil matter. But they still liable.
 
Mathieu18 said:
That was my understanding. So while the ATF is still dumb, I see their standpoint. However FFL got it, they’ve been in possession of it, so they need to record its transfer correctly. ATF can’t say just give that gun you held back, it’s basically like they took it in for work (but did so illegally). But since that means he is now ineligible, their original, illegal taking is the reason this whole fiasco exists. There might not be a good way to legally retrieve his P80, but he should get a lot more cash than the gun is worth for the trouble.
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I see what you are trying to say. But the rule does not apply to a privately made firearm (PMF) that is brought in for adjustment or repair and returned to the person who brought it in the same day. So even if he brought the gun in for something other than test fitting a holster, it still does not meet the requirements for serializing. See page 23 in the link below. The language in the rule for FFLs and PMFs says “acquires”. Physically holding a personal firearm does not meet the definition of acquired for their purposes of inventory.

Example, I take a personally owned firearm into a FFL to discuss a possible sell/trade value. The FFL holds the gun, looks it over, does a quick function test to help them with their decision. They then tells me the amount they are willing to pay or give in credit towards a trade. I’m not happy with their offer and decide not to conduct business the FFL. They hand me my gun and I leave their business. They do not have to record that interaction in their inventory and make me fill out a 4473 form and call in a background check.

 
Average Joe said:
I see what you are trying to say. But the rule does not apply to a privately made firearm (PMF) that is brought in for adjustment or repair and returned to the person who brought it in the same day. So even if he brought the gun in for something other than test fitting a holster, it still does not meet the requirements for serializing. See page 23 in the link below. The language in the rule for FFLs and PMFs says “acquires”. Physically holding a personal firearm does not meet the definition of acquired for their purposes of inventory.

Example, I take a personally owned firearm into a FFL to discuss a possible sell/trade value. The FFL holds the gun, looks it over, does a quick function test to help them with their decision. They then tells me the amount they are willing to pay or give in credit towards a trade. I’m not happy with their offer and decide not to conduct business the FFL. They hand me my gun and I leave their business. They do not have to record that interaction in their inventory and make me fill out a 4473 form and call in a background check.

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I get that, but by the time it was straightened out I don’t think the ATF can say much else. I agree the shop acquired it wrong but they’d also been holding it (for whatever reason) so the ATF can’t really say just hand it back. As I read it the shop had it for days before it was resolved. And I’m even if the right person could say that, once some rando entry level guy says serialize it, the FFL can’t do much else.

But again, the shop coulda owned their mistake. If they did I say they get a pass. If they say tough luck, screw em.
 
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Gaston said:
I wonder how that'd work if you just gave a frame a nonsensical serial number, like some engraved poop emojis.
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Not well. Serial numbers must be composed of Arabic numbers and Roman letters. Beyond that, it must contain and least one number…so it can be all numbers, but can’t be all letters.
 
BigWaylon said:
Not well. Serial numbers must be composed of Arabic numbers and Roman letters. Beyond that, it must contain and least one number…so it can be all numbers, but can’t be all letters.
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Any limitation on profanity? Maybe FudgeTHEATF4EVER?
 
BigWaylon said:
Not well. Serial numbers must be composed of Arabic numbers and Roman letters. Beyond that, it must contain and least one number…so it can be all numbers, but can’t be all letters.
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if there is no requirement to engrave serial numbers on your privately made firearms, there is no requirement for what you engrave on them to be unique. Not my fault if somebody thinks it is...
 
DrScaryGuy said:
if there is no requirement to engrave serial numbers on your privately made firearms, there is no requirement for what you engrave on them to be unique. Not my fault if somebody thinks it is...
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You can engrave anything you want on your firearm.

It just may not qualify as a serial number.

I think you should engrave BigWaylon on every one of yours. 😎
 
I think shop turned it over to police, probably didn’t ever put it in their book, and it’ll work it’s way back to the owner.

While I’d have been belligerent in the store, it’s hard to put myself in the mindset of a young soldier who may not be 100% sure of the law and concerned about blowback from his command.

I hate to see LGSs close, but this one has a rocky road ahead.
 
I decided to google the store and see what folks were saying. Here is one fun and witty post on Reddit.

You can't say Shooters Den in Albuquerque New Mexico stole a guys gun
Hey y'all, I don't post much but had to put this out there since Reddit banned someone for using freedom of speech. If you say/type the gun store called Shooters Den in Albuquerque New Mexico stole a guys gun you might get banned for some arbitrary reason. Shooters Den in Albuquerque New Mexico stole a guys gun is something you're not allowed to say, and if you say Shooters Den in Albuquerque New Mexico stole a guys gun ya might get censored. So quick recap, Reddit you not supposed to say Shooters Den in Albuquerque New Mexico stole a guys gun they don't like hearing it, I personally don't see any issue with saying Shooters Den in Albuquerque New Mexico stole a guys gun
 
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I tried to read the article but I got nonstop ads for ruger guns covering the print. Hitting the little x box didn’t work at all. It seemed to make more ads pop up from ruger.
 
And another. These guys are A+ trolls.

Let me explain, you can’t say Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico stole someone’s gun unless you’re warning someone that they can’t say Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico stole someone’s gun because that would be harassment to claim that Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico stole someone's gun regardless of whether or not Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico stole someone’s gun, and harassment is bad even if the harassment is merely repeating a factual statement – and to clarify I am specifically not saying that Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico stole someone’s gun, because that would be harassment regardless of the factualness of the statement – so, instead, you should warn people about how bad it would be to say that Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico stole someone’s gun and do your part to prevent harassment of businesses like Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico, who have recently and, totally unrelated, been in contact with the police and ATF about someone’s gun that was in their possession without permission of the owner, who was, thankfully, temporarily banned by Reddit so that we all could be protected from their harassment of Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

If you’re still confused, let me know because I worry for you, knowing you might accidentally say that Shooters Den in Albuquerque, New Mexico stole someone’s gun.
 
Leadchunker said:
I tried to read the article but I got nonstop ads for ruger guns covering the print. Hitting the little x box didn’t work at all. It seemed to make more ads pop up from ruger.
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from aggressive marketers that won the ruger contract.
 
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