ATF moving for Amnesty Period to register pistol braced guns as SBRs

Let's assume this happens and I want to be a good subject citizen and register my pistol apply for my free stamp for my new SBR. It says I have to submit a picture of said weapon to show that it is a braced pistol to qualify for "amnesty". Can I then later swap the brace for a stock or am I locked into this configuration because I got the freebie?
 
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Nice way to grow your legal database…

So if you have an A.R. pistol which is currently concealable under North Carolina law with the proper license, is it now a short barrel rifle and no longer concealable? @BigWaylon ?
 
Mathieu18 said:
Nice way to grow your legal database…

So if you have an A.R. pistol which is currently concealable under North Carolina law with the proper license, is it now a short barrel rifle and no longer concealable? @BigWaylon ?
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I think TBD is the only valid answer at this point…
 
Mathieu18 said:
Nice way to grow your legal database…

So if you have an A.R. pistol which is currently concealable under North Carolina law with the proper license, is it now a short barrel rifle and no longer concealable? @BigWaylon ?
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That is correct. NC statutes only apply to handguns.
 
BigWaylon said:
I think TBD is the only valid answer at this point…
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Unfortunately, it’s a no. Once the ATF classifies it as a rifle, you can longer conceal it as if it is a handgun. I think it’s going to be very confusing for both sides of the law in NC. But at the end of the day, the statute strictly prohibit and concealed except a handgun with a valid permit.
 
Spartan01 said:
Once it is registered as an SBR, as in you have the Form 1/4 in your hands with the affixed tax stamp, you are good to go. You can add a stock, or brace, vertical or angled foregrip.
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Cool. Like this?
1662143901435.png
 
Average Joe said:
Unfortunately, it’s a no. Once the ATF classifies it as a rifle, you can longer conceal it as if it is a handgun. I think it’s going to be very confusing for both sides of the law in NC. But at the end of the day, the statute strictly prohibit and concealed except a handgun with a valid permit.
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I’m not going to argue about the CHP only covering handguns. But I still believe it’s TBD for a variety of reasons. The first two being (1) what’s the wording of what actually passes, if anything (will they really be rifles, or some subnet/new category) and (2) does NC change any regulations based on this…or could we possibly end up with a firearms that’s different at the state and federal levels. #2 may seem line a stretch, but SC is in that situation right now to some degree. They add a 12” max to the definition of “concealable”…which
 
BigWaylon said:
I’m not going to argue about the CHP only covering handguns. But I still believe it’s TBD for a variety of reasons. The first two being (1) what’s the wording of what actually passes, if anything (will they really be rifles, or some subnet/new category) and (2) does NC change any regulations based on this…or could we possibly end up with a firearms that’s different at the state and federal levels. #2 may seem line a stretch, but SC is in that situation right now to some degree. They add a 12” max to the definition of “concealable”…which
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You have valid arguments. But any destination from ATF that doesn’t have the word pistol or handgun will put it outside NC current law. And I don’t have faith in NC actually changing so the statute will include any AR type platforms. I could be wrong but Cooper and Stein would do everything within their power to fight it. And don’t tell my wife, but I hope I am wrong for once 🤣
 
Average Joe said:
You have valid arguments. But any destination from ATF that doesn’t have the word pistol or handgun will put it outside NC current law. And I don’t have faith in NC actually changing so the statute will include any AR type platforms. I could be wrong but Cooper and Stein would do everything within their power to fight it. And don’t tell my wife, but I hope I am wrong for once 🤣
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It’s still enough to say the answer is currently TBD instead of No. 🤣😝
 
Jerzsubbie said:
You assume people intend to comply with an agency whose rules flip more than a Burger King cook. Just sayin’.
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Wait, so non-compliers will keep pistol braces on their newly unregistered SBRs instead of using a stock instead?

krule-john-c-reilly.gif
 
Jerzsubbie said:
You assume people intend to comply with an agency whose rules flip more than a Burger King cook. Just sayin’.
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No comply till they cross reference their illegal database, GunBroker etc. and start shooting dogs to get the ones that didn't take advantage of the amnesty period. Guess that might be when it starts to go down...
 
Les White said:
Why not? They already do whatever they want regarding rule (law) creation without congressional approval.
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The $200 tax is in statute, a bureaucrat won’t just ignore that. It’s different than changing how they understand words.
 
Mathieu18 said:
On the other hand, I kinda want a threaded SBR. If the federales want to give them out for free it’s not a bad offer.
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There is nothing free. Everything has a price….

and sometimes, it can’t be measured in dollars.

A72489A3-0AF6-47AC-9FA3-794EBB754ED9.gif
 
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Dale Gribble said:
There is nothing free. Everything has a price.
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Agreed, the ATF or the feds in general cannot be trusted. It's bad enough they are creating law with zero congressional oversight but God only knows what BS they have planned. The ATF has completely shown their ass lately with the RB Trigger bs, the key card and Matt from YouTube, the frame/receiver rule, why should this be any different? I see this as a last ditch effort to appease gun owners as they know that what they're doing is wholy Unconstitutional.
 
Yeah, if they can find a way they’ll create a short amnesty window, forcing folks to decide if they want to register now for free or potentially be a felon for years as the case winds it’s way through the courts. Most folks will register, and that data never goes away.
 
Dale Gribble said:
There is nothing free. Everything has a price….

and sometimes, it can’t be measured in dollars.

View attachment 519023
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Oh come on. How could it possibly be a bad idea to send them a photo as proof of ownership for something they just decided to make illegal?
 
Bait and switch? Convince a bunch of people to send in a photo and papers then after a year announce they either need $200 as per statute or no stamp. And BTW thanks for adding the gun to our database. An agent will be by to collect it later.
 
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If a braced pistol goes SBR that means a you’ll be filling out a 5320 to cross state lines. It’s not really that much if you have an SBR, SBS or destructive device such you’ve likely done it before … but if a newbie does not know about it the ATF Stormtroopers can ruin a honest citizen’s life over a technicality. Also the paperwork the initial form filings will cause could create a backlog for several years … plus how much the yearly 5320 filings. The paperwork load increase will require a fair amount of new ATF employees just to push piles of paper. Funny thing there is no fee for 5320’s but the “Paperwork Reduction Act Notice” states a 5320 “burdens” the ATF and US government with a 45 minute labor use. Imagine that times all the people with braces that actually do file as a SBR filing 5320’s for a couple states each year (I file 2 SBR’s in 7 states each year for a total of 14 5320’s) … they might need to hire 87,000 ATF clerks and a huge office building.
 
What happens in states that don't allow class 3 stuff? Defacto new ban there? Or sheriffs that won't sign off and you have to go the trust route... additional pain in the butt by design.

On topic though the amnesty is because no one can comply with the rules without a time machine. if you want to build an SBR you have to get the stamp first and then build it. If you want to buy one you have to get the stamp before your FFL can release the weapon to you. Here, you'll already have the SBR so you can't not have it or not build it before the stamp arrives. This way no one can claim everyone is a felon over night, you have to wait until the amnesty expires... then you're a felon. Presumably if the amnesty expires while you're waiting for the stamp.... well you're still a felon?
 
NCFubar said:
If a braced pistol goes SBR that means a you’ll be filling out a 5320 to cross state lines. It’s not really that much if you have an SBR, SBS or destructive device such you’ve likely done it before … but if a newbie does not know about it the ATF Stormtroopers can ruin a honest citizen’s life over a technicality. Also the paperwork the initial form filings will cause could create a backlog for several years … plus how much the yearly 5320 filings. The paperwork load increase will require a fair amount of new ATF employees just to push piles of paper. Funny thing there is no fee for 5320’s but the “Paperwork Reduction Act Notice” states a 5320 “burdens” the ATF and US government with a 45 minute labor use. Imagine that times all the people with braces that actually do file as a SBR filing 5320’s for a couple states each year (I file 2 SBR’s in 7 states each year for a total of 14 5320’s) … they might need to hire 87,000 ATF clerks and a huge office building.
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What they need to do it make the 5320.20 electronic, and automatic. If the “to” address is legal for the category of firearm, approve it and PDF is generated on the spot.
 
Jayne said:
additional pain in the butt by design.
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This IMO is exactly what it’s about. Not databases or changing the rules again later, but just restrict new purchases, restrict future transfers and generally choke off AR pistols.
Jayne said:
On topic though the amnesty is because no one can comply with the rules without a time machine. if you want to build an SBR you have to get the stamp first and then build it. If you want to buy one you have to get the stamp before your FFL can release the weapon to you. Here, you'll already have the SBR so you can't not have it or not build it before the stamp arrives. This way no one can claim everyone is a felon over night, you have to wait until the amnesty expires... then you're a felon. Presumably if the amnesty expires while you're waiting for the stamp.... well you're still a felon?
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Amnesty is because they’d lose challenges quick if they tried to make something illegal that used to be legal. This gives them a shot anyway, they’re playing the long game.
 
Mathieu18 said:
This IMO is exactly what it’s about. Not databases or changing the rules again later, but just restrict new purchases, restrict future transfers and generally choke off AR pistols.

Amnesty is because they’d lose challenges quick if they tried to make something illegal that used to be legal. This gives them a shot anyway, they’re playing the long game.
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The first one of these cases which actually makes it to the SCOTUS will be ruled unconstitutional, by design. The Congress is the only entity which holds the power to create law. These rules are a rediculous farce being shoved down our throats.
 
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BigWaylon said:
What they need to do it make the 5320.20 electronic, and automatic. If the “to” address is legal for the category of firearm, approve it and PDF is generated on the spot.
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That would be way to easy. They will merge IRS and BATF&E.
 
JohnnyTyler said:
Let's assume this happens and I want to be a good subject citizen and register my pistol apply for my free stamp for my new SBR. It says I have to submit a picture of said weapon to show that it is a braced pistol to qualify for "amnesty". Can I then later swap the brace for a stock or am I locked into this configuration because I got the freebie?
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See I wondered the exact same thing it’s garbage that they won’t answer questions like this either just keep directing you to new “rule” that is intentionally ambiguous
 
Spartan01 said:
So, it used to be you had to get permission from the CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer, usually the sheriff) and some were turds and refused.
In 2016, obama changed the law regarding trusts, you now simply need to notify the CLEO, not beg permission.

Trust now requires anyone added must submit fingerprints and photos, whereas pre mid (July??) 2016 trusts do not, you could add a Responsible Party at will.
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Don't you need to submit finger prints and photos with each item added to a trust and not just when you add new people? I've honestly not kept up.
 
Jayne said:
Don't you need to submit finger prints and photos with each item added to a trust and not just when you add new people? I've honestly not kept up.
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You only have to submit FPs and photos for people who are considered Responsible Persons at the time of submission.

There’s nothing in the regulations that prevent you from:
1. Creating a new trust for each item (or batch of items), with you as the only RP…and then adding additional RPs after the fact. You’d be the only one submitting RPQs, plus prints and photos.
2. Removing all other RPs, filling out the paperwork with just your info/prints/photos, then adding everybody back.
 
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