Big Bores Can Give Big Results

Michael458

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But only if you choose the right sort of bullet to accomplish your mission. Choose wrong, and your big bore is nothing but a novelty.

Regardless of the fancy expensive platform, and the big massive cartridge, if you do not combine that with the correct bullet, or a well designed bullet your best bet is just stay at home, as it is going to cost you down the line.

Unfortunately the vast majority of African hunters are not professional shooters. They do not spend enough time with their equipment to become not only proficient, but educated as well.

We have spent a tremendous amount of effort in the design of proper bullets to complete any mission asked of them. I started this endeavor back in 2006 after I went on the first shooting mission with a 50 B&M. At that time, with all conventional available bullets in .500 caliber, which was mostly designed for 500 S&W, and the 50 B&M could run those bullets faster than they could handle. Many of those bullets I slowed down substantially so as to not break them up too badly. This strategy worked great and the first trip out with the prototype was a success because of it. The first outing was short, 5 days and 20+ animals, from impala to giraffe, no dangerous game yet. Lots of wildebeest and zebra, they are excellent test material.

Where we came up short was proper designed SOLIDS. There were none at the time in .500 caliber. We tried some Round Nose solid brass and copper solids, but they had a tendency to turn, twist and veer off course. After testing 100s of different designs and several years of work, we finally designed the perfect Solids that absolutely were incredible. Drive deep and drive straight, that is what is required. We worked with Cutting Edge Bullets to design the #13 Solid and then later with North Fork Technologies to come up with their solids. These are now the standards of perfection for this sort of need.

Below are some examples of these bullets, FYI..........

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These .458 caliber Solids can be used in any .458 caliber bolt gun, such as 458 Winchester, 458 Lott, and of course 458 B&M.

A friend of ours has shot a lot of Dangerous game with his 458 B&M. Some years ago he shot an elephant with the CEB 450 Solids you see above. I was astounded at how that single solid busted this elephant where he stood, breaking both shoulders at the joints and exited. I had never seen an elephant so busted up. Take a look at how the legs are broken back and you will see what I mean.

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In 2007 we were hunting crop raiding elephants at night in Zimbabwe. I was using a 50 B&M at the time, and a bullet we designed that was similar to a flat nose Barnes solid, with a nice big flat meplat of 70%. I had shot another elephant a couple of days before, one of the few frontal brain shots that I have been presented, which is spectacular to see. This elephant did not present that shot. When we hit the lights, Yes, it was pitch dark, and we used LIGHTS when shooting! You have very little time to get to work once that light gets switched on. It was a hell of a experience hunting elephants at night.

The shot was broadside heart at 20 yards, I took it, the elephant stumbled and nearly went down at that point, he gathered himself and started running away from me. We were on a slight elevation which allowed me to shoot down on the bull as he took off. I could not let him get too far, so I hit him again in the top of the back angling down thru the heart. This bullet traveled 7 feet, actually hit in the heart and exited the front of the chest. I hit him a third time some bit further back, this bullet was recovered, it did not exit. He was only able to go another 10-15 yards before going down. When we removed the heart the next day, we found the two bullets had criss crossed the heart, one from the side, the other from the rear.

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Big Bore Solids are not only used on elephants and other large game. Over the years the solids became one of the most important tools I would always have with me, even hunting lesser game, such as various antelopes and such. The Big Solids are your insurance policy if things don't always go your way.

I was in Alaska I believe it was 2008. I shot a bear, he started running, I followed up with a Solid and he went down like lightning had hit him. From the rear, no common expanding bullet could have done that, and it was a rear end shot. Pay the Insurance, and nothing does it better than a proper designed solid that drives deep and true.
 
Whats elephant meat taste like?

Chewy....... kinda beefy I suppose. Nothing to write home about, but it sure is good for the locals............

They let school out the next day after I shot an elephant, so everyone could get a share...............

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In 24 hours a buzzard could not make a meal after the locals finish................
 
In 2005 I found myself in Tanzania hunting buffalo and we looked around at some hippo............... At the time, I had a 458 Lott and 500 gr Flat Nose Barnes solids, which really did a great job on that hunt................

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Later across the river this hippo bull charged, he took one of the 500 gr FN Barnes at 6 steps and was down for the count..........

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Follow up shots on buffalo are always with Solids.............

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Big Bore Lever guns can be enhanced as well, with proper bullets. With the lever guns, since pressures need to be kept low, and most cases are short on capacity, for serious work I lean to proper designed solids to get the job done. Being a lever gun fan, I didn't leave them short when it came to well designed bullets. When we designed the CEB #13, we also did a couple of bullets for 45/70. A 400 gr Solid and a 325 gr Solid. Both are more than capable of handling large game.

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Some years ago a Friend of my Hunting Buddy Lou, wanted to hunt buffalo with his Marlin Guide gun in 45/70. So he touched base with me, and I loaded some of the 400 Gr Solids and sent him to Africa. He was very successful in his endeavor, One Shot thru the heart, buffalo ran for 30 yards and went down for the count.

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In 2013 I was in Zimbabwe on my first field outing with the 50 B&M Alaskan lever gun. I was using a 405 gr CEB #13 Lever Solid on that hunt. It really made the 50 B&M Alaskan look good.............. First off hammered a big bull hippo with it in some fast action along the lake. We ran across a group of hippo taking a nap. My PH Andrew and I did some crawling to get in place, and give them a look over. The bull was in the back about 25 feet out of the water. They took notice, and tried to make a mad dash to get back in the water and I started hammering the bull, I manage to hit him 4 times before he went under. About an hour later he floated up and we retrieved him.

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We were able to recover 3 of the 4 bullets fired..............One exited which was the first broadside heart shot I believe. The other 3 were more angled lengthwise.

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Later on that same trip to Zimbabwe I found myself in one hell of a battle with a buffalo. Buffalo are incredible animals, and very individual. I have shot some buffalo and they run, and fall over, end of story. Others however make a different plan, and they have no idea they are dead, and never give up!

This buffalo was one such creature. He did not give up and fought like hell to the very last breath. I hit him first with a 365 Gr Lever Raptor, running in the open at 30 yards, I am not much of a running shot, so it hit just behind the shoulder and went through both lungs. He bucked, I hit him again, only this time he was running full out and in the brush. Second round was one of the 405 Solids. What I did not know at the time until that night when we viewed the video, I had hit a small 4 inch tree 10 steps in front of me, the bullet drilled the tree, then hit the buffalo 30 yards behind the tree in the guts, and passed through the buffalo as well. The next day we went to review that shot and find the tree.

After the second shot the buffalo was in thick brush, waiting on us. We could see part of his head through the brush, waiting on us. I had no shot, so we decided to try and make our way around to his rear. He was only 30-40 yards out. He caught us, and moved forward about 20 more yards, in the shadows of some bigger trees. He laid down at that point. I had reloaded the rifle with two more solids, now for a total of 4 in the gun. As we tried to move around to get a shot, he got back on his feet and started towards us, at that point I turned those 405 solids loose on him. It was amazing, watching the big solids hit him, rocked him back a step each time, until the gun was empty, then he went down. I reloaded again, and approached him. He was down, and I approached him from his back side. Somehow, he knew, and in his last breath he rolled over towards me and did his best to get up again, but he did not have it in him. Damn what a Warrior! He never gave up. That is why Buffalo are and have always been my favorite.................

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This was the only bullet recovered from the buffalo, the rest exited.......

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The single most work done on Big Bore in the last 50 years has been done by Michael McCourry.......J.D. Jones


This is one of the .500 caliber Solids that JD sent down for me to try out. He had David Fricke with Lehigh make this one for us. I had tested this bullet in all the .500 caliber rifles and cartridges, it always did great, always dead straight. One day I gave a sample to Sam to take home with him and make some samples to test. JD's bullet had a 15 degree angle off the nose, and of course you see the band arrangements and bearing surface...... From this point we tested different degree angles off the nose from 11 degrees to 20 degrees, and then different meplat sizes. From this bullet, the current #13 Solids (13 Degree angle), new band configurations, and different Nose projections were done to have what we have today.

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Solids play an extremely important role in all our big bore cartridges.............. Without them, they would be far less than what they are.................
 
Out of curiosity, have you ever stuck any of those big animals with a 45/70 and hard cast lead?

Yes, way back in 2002........ The bullet failed on a glancing shot on the shoulder. I was VERY Lucky..........I managed to wait him out, get a clear shot behind the shoulder through the lungs...............

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Using a 420 Cast Performance at 1920 fps. Did not penetrate vitals and was found in the neck.

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I knew immediately after the bull ran I had a problem, and I did not have enough gun, and I sure didn't have enough bullet....................
 
Later in that hunt I shot a very big body bull elephant with 458 Lott. We tested the 420 Cast performance on a side brain shot when doing the butchering. It did not do very well..........

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Some other things with Cast Bullets.........

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@Michael458 I love the stories and pictures. Thank you for sharing. I also think it's so darn cool that you perform an autopsy on the animals and retrieve the bullets. Of course, that's where you get your feedback on performance of the gun and cartridge/bullet.
 
Do you have a host firearm for the 1.00 caliber solid? :eek:

Am I correct in assuming that one, as well as the .620 and .585, are not part of the NFA because of the “sporting purposes” exemption?
 
How would you rate these hard cast on a big bear?

They would be fine. Not all cast are equal, some softer, some harder. If the harder ones have a large meplat, they will shear that off at impact, if they are softer, then they will upset some. For thin skinned game they are fine. Thing is, there is just so many better bullets available now, I would choose something else.

For 45/70 there really have not been any super bullets until the last 10 years or so. When I was shooting 45/70 in those years, there were no good bullets, Cast was the best we had at the time, and it proved not to be up to par.

45/70 is a very weak big bore, within the big bore world. It cannot produce enough velocity in lever guns to compete with larger capacity cases. Today, there are many "super" bullets that can enhance its performance far beyond what it could do 10 years ago. Today, if I were to consider embarking on a Big Bear hunt with 45/70, or just carried a 45/70 for protection, I would look very hard at the various Lehigh Extreme Penetrators, as a first shot option, then backed up with the CEB Solids. This combination would ensure penetration, and first shot trauma.

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And or the North Fork Expanding CPS and CEB Solids would also be a winner..............

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Do you have a host firearm for the 1.00 caliber solid?

No, and there is not one. LOL.............. When we started developing CEBs for the other large ultra bores, friends that had .620s and .585s teased me about my .500s being MINOR calibers now. So I fixed them up with the 1.00 caliber CEB #13 Solids to shut that up!

Am I correct in assuming that one, as well as the .620 and .585, are not part of the NFA because of the “sporting purposes” exemption?

Correct.
 
Common thinking, and Conventional thinking, SOLIDS have no use except for second shots on buffalo, first shots on hippo on land, and of course Elephant.

Well, I am not Conventional. In 2006 I took the first .500 prototype to Africa for that 5 day workout. I was testing all the .500 conventional bullets available at the time, plus a few other bullets. We had no solids, so JD and I had some Round Nose made up by Lehigh. We had not begun our mission for a proper solid yet. On this trip, my intentions were to shoot various species and since this was test work, to follow up with SOLIDs so no game was lost if a bullet failed to perform. I had done my homework on all the bullets, they had been tested at various velocities to learn the range that they would work, and the upper ends of the velocity they could handle. But in case I was wrong, I had a insurance policy, or so I thought at the time. The only failures I had with bullets, was the damn solids, and with them being round nose, they would not penetrate straight. I watched time after time they would enter, then turn 90 degrees and exit elsewhere, sometimes not even getting to vitals, they were awful.

And this partially set us on a journey to find the perfect solids.

But, from that experience, I questioned "Conventional Wisdom" concerning SOLIDS and their use.

Lets say you are bear hunting, in Alaska. You make your shot, but something goes wrong. Poor Placement? Bullet Failure? Maybe you hit a limb, or branch, throwing your bullet off kilter? What better tool to have, than one of these solids for insurance? Big bear can head into thick brush, where no expanding bullet can hope to penetrate and get the job done. One of these big Flat Nose solids, CAN. What if your bear is in the open! But now, running away? Now you have a North Bound Bear, and a South End shot? Maybe a premium expanding bullet can, but maybe it can't? One of these Solids CAN. Same goes for bigger species of antelope or any other animal. The Solid is your insurance policy against a lost animal, or a problem that most expanding or trauma inflicting bullets cannot accomplish.

So From that day forward, I always carried more solids than expanding or trauma inflicting bullets, even for bear and thin skinned species. If I was taking 50 rounds of ammo, 35-40 of those would be SOLIDs...........
 
I mentioned the Lehigh Extreme Penetrator above, when speaking about the 45/70s. The very first of these bullets was something JD came up with. Along with the 455 JDJ FN Solid, JD made some cuts in the meplat, this was to move fluids, and cause more trauma inflicted. It worked, and did rather well at that, and still maintained excellent penetration. I deemed it a very good buffalo bullet, maybe didn't even need solids? That was the thought at the time anyway. I had tested these bullets in 2006 and part of 2007.

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The 451 JDJ with the cuts, does not penetrate as deep, reason, it is expending great amounts of energy into inflicting trauma, and also not creating a sustainable ballistic bubble inside aqueous mediums. Exact same happens in animal tissue.

In 2007 I used the bullet to take the very first Buffalo taken with the 50 B&M. The bullet did a great job, the buffalo dropped in his tracks, never moved. It was truly a site I have never seen. Buffalo are notoriously tough, and now this big bull is DRT..... WOW.................... This was until we did the autopsy. You see, I had about a 5 foot height advantage on the buffalo, and he had his head down feeding away from me. I put the bullet just a tad high in the shoulder, a buffalos spinal cord drops rather low between the shoulders when in that position, and the bullet took out the spinal column as it passed, hence the impressive take down. Yes, I was a tad disappointed that shear power didn't do the job, but the bullet did what it was supposed to do regardless........

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I have to give Lehigh a hand, and I am not sure how much JD had as far as influence on todays current Extreme Penetrators, but I am a big fan of these bullets, they work, they do exactly what is advertised, and if I were not retired from hunting, I would be going to the field to give them a go on various critters, with buffalo at the top of the list...............

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BTW.......... The 50 B&M Used in 2007 was the first, and ONLY 50 B&M built with a 20 inch barrel. I wanted to see if there was any advantage at all. There was not, not even 25 fps advantage. That was a wasted 2 inches of barrel length. 18 Inches is maximum efficiency with that cartridge. It was retired after that hunt, and given to my Son Matthew. I had taken 2 elephants and 5 buffalo with it on that trip.
 
Michael, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Would you have any knowledge of how these modern ballistics compare to the brute force stopping power of the old 4 bores and like that were used as stopping rifles during the black powder days?

Those old double stopping rifles are works of art and the idea of a small cannon bringing a buff or elephant to a dead stop remind me of the golden days of the great white hunters.
 
Would you have any knowledge of how these modern ballistics compare to the brute force stopping power of the old 4 bores and like that were used as stopping rifles during the black powder days?

Maybe a little, but not extensive. If you dive into that history you would learn that back in those days, there was little choice in real bullet tech. Smaller bores, just did not have enough bullet tech to get the job done. At that time, instead of bullet tech, they relied upon size, caliber, and weight of projectile, mostly big hard cast lead. Needed extreme caliber to make any impression at all. As Bullet tech become better, the move to smaller calibers came about, and by smaller caliber I mean .585 and such. What we would consider the Ultra Bores today, were basically considered small bore in those days, compared to the 8-4 and even 2 bore guns. In those days as well, gun bearers were common, they would carry these 18-25 lb guns, while the hunter carried a smaller rifle. The better the bullet tech became, the smaller the bore and the rifles became. Today many consider 375 caliber up as big bore. I do not of course, I despise 375 caliber.

One of my best friends, and my test partner is also a very experienced hunter, and a Double Rifle fan. My friend Sam Rose has over 2 dozen very expensive Double Rifles. He assisted in all our research here and took a heavy vested interest in it, for the sole reason of having better bullets in which to use in double rifles. Double rifles present many problems and issues that bolt guns do not have concerns with. We addressed most all those issues in our research, and we solved most of those. This is one of the reasons you see the band configurations that you do on the CEB and North Fork bullets, those bands are very friendly to double rifles, creating much less barrel strain than conventional bullets.

Sam is a huge fan of 577 Nitro, which is .585 caliber, today we would consider that an Ultra bore gun. I had heard many stories about mostly failures with many of the Ultra Bores, and I knew it had to be bullet tech that was the reason for this. There were just no really good bullets available for these cartridges, traditional Round Nose FMJ was the fodder being used, and caused many a elephant to be wounded, and get away. I read very few successful stories concerning the Ultra Bores, and had little respect for them as stopping cartridges, or being effective at all.

Our very first test session together, Sam wanted to bring his 577 Nitro down to test. It was a very eye opening experience for him. It actually set his ass on fire, and from that moment on he became a true believer in the search for the Perfect Solid. He had something entirely different envisioned with his mighty 577 NE. But was very disappointed in the results....................

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I believe it was 2007 when we began the adventure and by 2010 we had it whipped...................This was one of the prototype 3 band #13 Solids................

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The Difference Between "FAILURE" and "SUCCESS"...................................

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Shooting a 577 NE from the bench during test work................

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Sam went on from 2010 with his "new bullet tech" and his 577 NE to be extremely successful in his endeavors. He took a trip to Africa in November of 2010, the day he set foot on the Continent, he did so with the Most Effective 577 NE that had ever been in Africa. It was not because of the cartridge, or the rifle, but the bullets that were chosen for this, and all trips thereafter. Bullets Do All the Heavy Lifting.........................

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What's the recoil # on a rifle like this?
Shooting it from the bench must be a thing to experience>

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Personally, I am not a double rifle fan, they are extremely finicky, and not nearly as versatile as a bolt gun. Most individuals who use double rifles do so because of nostalgia, and not because they are better for the mission. Most are also not nearly as proficient as Sam is, most read about Africa in the old days, have this nostalgia thing going on, and enough money to buy one, and off they go, with little or no experience, and they still use inferior bullet tech. They also do not spend enough time with the guns to become proficient. Sam on the other hand is extremely good with his doubles and continues to hunt with them to this day.

We did the most extensive work here with the double rifles that has ever been done. We did the first and only real research concerning the barrel strain that bullets put on a barrel as it travels down the bore. This is extremely important concerning double rifles, as you basically have two barrels welded together! If you have bullets that cause a lot of barrel strain, or bulge as it passes down the bore, this will eventually work on that "weld" and start to break it apart, causing the barrels to separate, not a good thing. We tested not only chamber pressures, but barrel strain extensively by attaching a strain gage 4 inches back from the muzzle. This would capture the amount the barrel expanded as the bullet passed that point. Using this technology, we were able to design the band system you see on todays modern bullets. We tested everything concerning barrel strain this way, in 470 Nitro Express, 500 Nitro, and 577 NE. Since a bullet does not know what sort of barrel it is passing through, I also set up a strain gage on a 458 B&M to test barrel strain in .458 caliber.

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We learned a few things about barrel strain and how to reduce it, and still maintain accuracy, and effective terminal performance.

This is what a Woodleigh FMJ Solid looks like when tested for barrel strain........

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And, what the #13 Two Band version looks like...................

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What's the recoil # on a rifle like this?

It can be tiring. I can remember days when Sam and I would shoot more than 50 rounds like this doing test work, I think one day we tested 80 rounds in 577. While it gets tiresome, no doubt, his 577 weighs 14-15 lbs, and pushing 750 gr bullets at 1900-2000 fps it is more like a big push, and not a hi pressure jolt. You just roll with it and its not terrible really.
 
He's lieing^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:rolleyes:

Just a little.......HEH............. I had to shoot and test some 458 B&Ms a few weeks ago, using Norma brass and 450 Solids, was getting results that were too good not to have some concerns about pressures? So I had to see for sure before sending these loads out to the guys. Sure enough, they were fantastic, big results 2280+ fps in 18 inch guns and 2320 fps or so in 20 inch guns. Pressures low, 58000 or so as I recall.

Now I don't shoot as much big bore these days as in years past, so I am not hardened up to it now, I was feeling those 450s jumping out at near 2300.
 
There was mention above about a "Stopping Rifle/Cartridge/Bullet"................

I believe many of the B&M cartridge to be in that category. Which basically means they are capable of "Stopping" an action taken by a rogue or wounded animal in the field, saving lives in the process. This is not a common occurance by any stretch, and many hunters never face such an issue. However, every time you go to the field hunting dangerous game or hunting in a dangerous game area, you may and can find yourself in such a scenario. I have been in that situation a few times with hippo, buffalo and elephant.

A good friend of mine in Winchester VA found himself in just that scenario a few years ago with a cow elephant, that gave a full out charge. My friend Brent is a shooter, and a good one at that. He really wanted a 500 MDM in the worst way. I am very particular about who I turn loose with a 500 MDM. I honestly will not allow just anyone to have one, and have turned guys down in the past. I didn't know Brent, but he asked to visit and I agreed. I was able to watch him handle the 500 MDM, and he was very much up to my standards. Brent fell in love with a nearly new 18 inch gun I had here, and he handled it extremely well. I had no intentions of selling him the rifle, that was my damn rifle I had built. I had agreed to help him build one like it. As we sit on the range and talked about hunting and this that and the other, I took a liking to Brent and decided if he wanted the rifle I would let him go home with it, and of course he did want it, and took it home with him. He has taken it to Africa several trips, taken buffalo, hippo and elephant, among other things. He handles it well and has put it to very good use.

A few years ago he was hunting in Zimbabwe, in an area that had elephants. They were not hunting elephant at the time, but close to them regardless. Cow elephants can be rather antagonistic at times, this one gave them a full charge, unprovoked, in which Brent ended up "STOPPING" the charge with his 500 MDM and 500 gr CEB #13 Solids...............

 
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Take note, the first shot was a stopping shot, not a kill shot. The hit and shock of the 500 gr CEB #13 Solid put the elephant down on the spot. Brent missed the brain on the first shot, but the big flat nose solid hammered hard enough to put the elephant down, and stop the charge. This allowed time to finish the dance. This is what a Stopping Rifle/Cartridge and bullet is supposed to do.
 
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