Subsonic 300 BO vs 45 ACP both through silencers? Night and day difference in sound . Same muzzle energy but vastly different down range performance with the 300 BO way on top. I have several of both.
Blackout advice
- Thread starter clay_fv
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backwoodsshooter
there’s always a method to the madness
i’ll stir the pot lol.
for anything supersonic and hunting, i’ll stick with a 110gr Accubond in my 6.8
lulz.
flame on
Nice assortment of stuff........... I would like to know about your evaluation of down range performance please. I care about Terminal Performance only, not the slightest interest in why or how one might sound different. And muzzle energy has nothing to do with much of anything.
Well the thread has gone to hell now......... I found a good use for 6.8... you can make .358 out of it, and 308 as well. Makes a nice little cartridge. We have had tremendously good results with those.........recently hammered black bear that was raiding bee hives took a terrible beating from the 358 version...........
You wouldn't be interested in dB reduction but most people see the 300 BO round as part of a suppressed firearms system. It is the most effective common market successfully suppressed firearm round for ranges out to 200 meters. If muzzle energy is pointless than keep on shooting big game with your .22lr.
Actually I have retired from hunting now. But when I was hunting, I never even paid any attention to "muzzle energy", we put all our efforts into bullet technology. What few animals I have shot at low velocity was very very unimpressive. Even getting into 1500-1800 fps with larger caliber was not impressive. Its only when you cross that 2000 fps line with larger caliber bullets that things start to happen, especially with larger animals. I would not consider a subsonic 308 much more than a 22 lr for anything bigger than squirrels and such........LOL
The greatest "myth" of marketing ever devised for weapons eval.
I have to correct that statement to a point. When I made it, just a few minutes ago, my mind was thinking up to .458 caliber. I remember in 2006 taking a .500 caliber rifle running velocities at the time of 1800 fps with 500 gr Hornady. I expected about the same animal reactions as I had got in the past with 45/70 and various 400s at 1800 fps, to my surprise going up in caliber made one hell of an impression on 25 or so wildebeest/zebra size animals, pretty much bang flop DRT type reactions. Very impressive come to think of it. There was a very measurable difference between similar bullets, and .458 caliber to .500 caliber........ I stand corrected, to that point.......
I think its a "waste of energy".......... LOL
@BatteryOaksBilly ..........smart ass, you just had to get me involved in this foolishness didn't you!
Sorry Pard...NEVER again. It seems that we will Never have Any credibility.
backwoodsshooter
there’s always a method to the madness
almost sounds like a 358mgp or whatever the guy that makes the 277 wolverine is calling his lol
No worries at all........ having fun, think I will check out back with my 22 lr and make sure none of those pesky elephants have been sneaking round grubbing in the garden............
Yep, thats exactly what it is... friend of mine talked me into he and I doing a couple of those, its a pretty spiffy little .358...........he did a 308 in one, its a hammer, but I have too many ties to 300 BLK and 7.62 X40 to be aggravated with another one to keep up with..........
Just a quick question and I'm outta here. Please, folks that argue with Mike about Terminal Ballistics. Please list below how many of each of these you have killed:
1. Elephants
1. Cape Buffalo
3. Hippos
4. Asiatic Buffalos
5. Lions
6. Leopards
7. Crocs
8. Wildebeasts
9. Kudus
10. Brown bears
11. Black bears
That list will suffice for now......Mike has killed Many multiples of the above list. His and our B&M Rifle experience doesn't come from Just a well equipped lab [that we have] but from Doing The Deed.
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I've banged a few hippos and wildebeests. Does that count?
backwoodsshooter
there’s always a method to the madness
I've looked in to the 358mgp, almost got it. But the required powder (lil gun I think) never had a good source on. Same with AA2200 or that's all I would be using in my 6.8. but now I have no place to really do load development like I did
I'll see your 6.8 and raise you a 300 HAM'R. That should give a few folks apoplexy!
backwoodsshooter
there’s always a method to the madness
I'll see your 6.8 and raise you a 300 HAM'R. That should give a few folks apoplexy!
i shall push all in, 375 raptor......wait........ gotta finish putting it together first and it’s on the AR10 plateform (does that still count here?) then get its little brother the 375 socom.
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@clay_fv .............well your thread has gone ballistic, and is now completely out of control........I hope you got enough before it went sideways.........
The fellow that developed the cartridge (like many) went somewhat overboard and over pressure with many of his loads. We set a gun up with a strain gage and actually did some development complete with pressure data. We tested some of his loads with LilGun and they were way over max for the type gun, hitting 65000 PSI. I strive to keep those pressures to 55000 PSI. Many of his loads caused issues with the gun. We tried several different powders, and in the end found CFE BLK and Shooters World at the top of the list.
Yeah, this thread has hit rock bottom now.............
Would still like to hear about the terminal evaluations of the SubSonic Lehighs in 300 BLK. I was around when JD and David were working on those. As I recall JD was trying to lend a hand to some wildlife control officers for some better SubSonic terminals. The officers were having issues with deer in suburban areas, being shot, and running all over the place afterwards, this would be with common bullets at subsonic velocities. JD worked on several designs to enhance terminal performance and I think they succeeded in that with the current Lehighs that are available for that purpose. Regardless of that success, SubSonic cannot come close to the Terminal Performance of a Raptor at velocity, or many of the common available bullets for the 300 BLK at velocity.
The fellow that developed the cartridge (like many) went somewhat overboard and over pressure with many of his loads. We set a gun up with a strain gage and actually did some development complete with pressure data. We tested some of his loads with LilGun and they were way over max for the type gun, hitting 65000 PSI. I strive to keep those pressures to 55000 PSI. Many of his loads caused issues with the gun. We tried several different powders, and in the end found CFE BLK and Shooters World at the top of the list.
What's with you and these rat guns? 6.8 and .375... Move on to at least .458.......... HEH.......
Yeah, this thread has hit rock bottom now.............
Would still like to hear about the terminal evaluations of the SubSonic Lehighs in 300 BLK. I was around when JD and David were working on those. As I recall JD was trying to lend a hand to some wildlife control officers for some better SubSonic terminals. The officers were having issues with deer in suburban areas, being shot, and running all over the place afterwards, this would be with common bullets at subsonic velocities. JD worked on several designs to enhance terminal performance and I think they succeeded in that with the current Lehighs that are available for that purpose. Regardless of that success, SubSonic cannot come close to the Terminal Performance of a Raptor at velocity, or many of the common available bullets for the 300 BLK at velocity.
Still stirring? 'bout time for a nap ain't it?
Enquiring Minds.........LOL
I think that beats the 8.6 Creedmoor I was going to play next....damn.
@Michael458 I'd genuinely be interested in you starting a thread about 7.62x40 and 300 HAM'R. I've read what you posted previously and found it quite interesting. I'm new to the caliber and enjoying it. I'd like to learn more about both cartridges and discuss it on this forum. I would greatly value, and I think others may as well, a point of view on the cartridge other than from Wilson Combat. Thanks.
Here's a bunch of his comments on the 7.62x40I think that beats the 8.6 Creedmoor I was going to play next....damn.
@Michael458 I'd genuinely be interested in you starting a thread about 7.62x40 and 300 HAM'R. I've read what you posted previously and found it quite interesting. I'm new to the caliber and enjoying it. I'd like to learn more about both cartridges and discuss it on this forum. I would greatly value, and I think others may as well, a point of view on the cartridge other than from Wilson Combat. Thanks.
Search results for query: 7.62x40
carolinafirearmsforum.com
You're going to want that load dialed in before it gets here. You at least have to be sure the bullet will stabilize before putting on the can, or you get to test the warranty out right away.I really didn't want a discussion on 45 suppressed vs 300blk suppressed.
Lots of good info there, thanks. If possible I'd like to see a dedicated 7.62x40 & 300 HAM'R discussion thread like he alluded to in the Pressure Works thread in post #58. I'm not opposed to starting it myself, but since Michael has a vast amount more experience and knowledge with the cartridges I was deferring to him.Here's a bunch of his comments on the 7.62x40
Search results for query: 7.62x40
@Bunsen .......go ahead, bust one off, state exactly what you would like to discuss and I will be more than happy to jump on it with you...........
I invited the chap that was the 300 Ham fan and Wilson worshiper to do just that, but he disappeared and I have never heard of him again....???..........as I recall.......
This is a direct link to the thread I started nearly two years ago, specific to the 7.62X40.....Reference....
7.62X40.... A 300BLK on Steroids
For those not familiar with 7.62X40 it really is just a slightly longer 300 BLK. I forget the chaps name that developed the cartridge, but it really is pretty decent, and pretty serious little cartridge. It has slightly more case capacity than a 300 BLK, and on average you can get 150-200...
carolinafirearmsforum.com
@clay_fv ....sorry about the hi jack, if you ever want to put some real loads in your gun, give me a buzz, I will be happy to help and guide you in the right direction with load and and bullet..........You will have a fine piece at your disposal
you should not limit the amount of tools in your pouch in which to choose from.
As a bit of a side note, you mentioned you did not want to loose your hearing if you had to use your tools in a certain scenario. When in the field and things got serious, I never had any ears ringing, or effect, never felt recoil. Seems
some of those things are on auto shut down in those scenarios. I don't know how it works, just that it does.
Lt. Col David Grossman book 'On Combat' did an excellent job describing the audio and visual effects on folks in combat and hunting. He covered the ears not ringing is like the body protecting itself.
On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace - Kindle edition by Grossman, Lt. Col. David, Christensen, Loren. Health, Fitness & Dieting Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
On Combat: The Psychology and Physiology of Deadly Conflict in War and in Peace - Kindle edition by Grossman, Lt. Col. David, Christensen, Loren. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading On...
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Without doubt that would be an interesting read, thanks. I can't speak from any experience in "Combat", as in the terms of the book. But I do know that while in battle with some of the beasts of the earth that time slows down, auditory shuts down rifle fire, you hear it, and you hear other things, but there seems to be zero damage to ears or ringing ears afterwards. You are on full auto control it seems. I would assume that it would be similar in combat. Its interesting to say the least......
I haven’t been in the military, or combat, I found the book fascinating. That effect is what he describes. He’s done decades of debriefing and has cool examples. One was off two cops together that got into a gunfight, the cop to the left opened fire, the cop on the right froze, had time stop, and was confused why beer cans were flying past him, and they had Winchester written on the bottom. He was seeing his partners 9mm brass going by.
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FWIW, my limited experience confirms that. (And I have very 'sensitive' hearing.)
Ive taken a couple of relatively large Columbian Blacktail deer with that very load.. Last one was 4 western points. Blacktails are a cross between a Mule deer and a white tail . little bigger than a white tail. 300BO Subsonic out of my converted Mossber Patrol and a SIG silencer. In fact the last deer I shot was with the Lehigh 194 load. at the right shoulder . Nosedived and pushed forward 20-30 yards until its heart gave out . I was probably about 75 yards out shooting up from a short draw. I'd been out all day and had given up and was walking back in. when I shot it about 1/2 mile from camp.
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I dont believe the ears ringing thing for a minute. Spent too much time around that stuff. Its not the ears ringing part thats an issue . Its the cumulative hearing loss That makes the world a much quieter place.
I opened this thread to gain a little insight into .300 blackout, as I recently acquired one, and like the original poster, I was looking for peoples experiences with subsonic loads. I quickly discovered that there are many good folks on this forum who care more about sharing their experiences and knowledge (tooting their own horns) than actually offering answers and suggestions about the topic. Just an observation.
Oh yeah, 300 BO. Gonna toot my own horn. Ive been loading it for since AAC stole the cartridge from SSK and dies became readily available. Ive converted thousands and thousands of 223 shells and have loaded 10's of thousands of rounds. Its a good cartridge for what its intended use is which is medium sized game out to 150 MAYBE 200 yards . I know many people do but I dont much see the point in the lighter bullet loadings. OK I get the bit about it being more effective than 5.56 for short barrels but in practice the 5.56is more practical. There are some really good dead soft point bullets for good expansion at 1000 FPS. The Lehigh pedals are IMHO the top of the list for expansion. Practice with the cheap stuff and shoot the good stuff at meat. How the discussion got into elephant hunting I dont know. Every tool has a purpose and for my uses I'd rather be shooting at deer with a good subsonic heavy round through a silencer than with just about anything else.
10.6-10.8 grains of 1680 behind 220-240 grain slugs . If you are buying loaded 300 BO stop. Buy loading gear. Its a dream cartridge to reload for. Its a nightmare cartridge to buy. Lehigh makes good bullets,
I just ordered up a box of these to try out this season.
https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=308200SBLK
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I have no problem with someone sharing their experiences (tooting their horn?) as it provides data points for me to take into consideration. It sounds to me (no pun intended) that it is a matter of deciding which metrics are important - to me. To some, it seems like the only important metric is noise. To others, lethality is the most important. Somewhere in the middle, there is ‘quiet enough’ and ‘lethal enough’. I would rather be working with too much information than not enough.