bump stock decision

Longlegs said:
Cliff notes?
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Consistent with our precedent and mandated by separation-of-powers and fair-notice concerns, we hold that an administering agency’s interpretation of a criminal statute is not entitled to Chevron deference.

Consequently, the district court erred by finding that the ATF’s Final Rule, which interpreted the meaning of a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b), was entitled to Chevron deference. And because we find that “single function of the trigger” refers to the mechanical process of the trigger, we further hold that a bump stock cannot be classified as a machine gun because a bump stock does not enable a semiautomatic firearm to fire more than one shot each time the trigger is pulled.

Accordingly, we find that Plaintiffs-Appellants are likely to prevail on the merits and that that their motion for an injunction should
have been granted.

Therefore, we REVERSE the judgment of the district court and REMAND forproceedings consistent with this opinion.
 
RR said:
Consistent with our precedent and mandated by separation-of-powers and fair-notice
concerns, we hold that an administering agency’s interpretation of a criminal statute is not
entitled to Chevron deference. Consequently, the district court erred by finding that the ATF’s
Final Rule, which interpreted the meaning of a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b),
was entitled to Chevron deference. And because we find that “single function of the trigger”
refers to the mechanical process of the trigger, we further hold that a bump stock cannot be
classified as a machine gun because a bump stock does not enable a semiautomatic firearm to
fire more than one shot each time the trigger is pulled. Accordingly, we find that Plaintiffs-
Appellants are likely to prevail on the merits and that that their motion for an injunction should
have been granted.
Therefore, we REVERSE the judgment of the district court and REMAND for
proceedings consistent with this opinion.
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#notallheroswearcapes

Thanks for the summary
 
I've posted about this before, several times, if we look at the patent, compare the M16 to the AR15 side by side with schematics to show that the parts that cause the M16 to fire in full automatic mode are missing from the AR15, it is crystal clear that the trigger must be pressed and released for the AR15 to fire each and every round vs the M16 that can fire until the magazine is empty simply by holding down the trigger.

Page 5-7 of the document goes into more detail, clearly written by people who understand the diffrerence between machine guns and semiautomatics.
 
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I've not waded into the debate on bump stocks, but it's clear to me that the gun is fired by distinct single trigger pulls for each and every round. The stock just facilitates the ability to pull that trigger quickly and repetitively. So, if what I read is correct, then yes, they do not constitute a machine gun as defined.
 
Not sure where on the exact legal path is now ... but the ATF will not go gentle into that good night. Yes, it is flex of gooberment power but it is also a way for the ATF to earn their keep. Government agencies need to prove their worth and the ATF really has a limited scope if action ... and the Bumpstock Ban was a pretty major one of their actions to show they are “necessary”. Think about what new things they actually can do to boost their worth. I don’t think they are going to let it go because it was the first grab in a line they have planned ... their pistol brace case they are building could be hurt somewhat by this so they aren’t going to let it go to easy.

And to add ... the binary triggers like the Rare Breed & Tac Com are not to far down their list. The ATF seized the STAMPS.COM account for guy selling the 3D printed wall hangers and has started contacting the buyers and being pretty nasty. They have done the AutoKey card guy the same way and the buyers of those are on edge about when the ATF will start on them.
 
Several years ago Murder Beach passed a city wide motorcycle helmet law. During the HD Ralley that year they vigorously enforced their City Helmet Law...they wrote Hundreds of tickets for people not wearing helmets. Yes....of course....they knew they were illegal.....they didn't care. They meant to run the HD Ralley out of town.....and they did. The ralley now is sponsored only by the local dealership and instead of 300,000 bikes there might be 5,000. The old Dealers Ralley was over 60 years old when they ran them outta town.
The point....Trump did the same thing new Mayor Rhodes did. Made the masses FEEL better....As I keep saying...The legality of a position means Nothing to these Bastards as long as the ends are achieved.
Any who think that our government is a government of laws has their head in the sand.
 
vaskeet said:
so you are happy with Biden ?
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That’s a really odd progression to go with.
Here’s my response in another thread

Nothing he or this administration says carries any bit of weight with me. He's a sham occupier and hopefully, the rest of the world will eventually notice
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feelinfroggy6988 said:
What exactly does this mean, we can have bump stocks again? They're trying to get the law reversed?
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It wasn’t law to start with! It was basically a suggestion to ATF and they did a policy change based on what the president wanted. That is not law.
 
So I haven't been following this case closely.

I am also not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

I do spend quite a bit of time around lawyers though and have been in courtrooms more than I care to.

So with those caveats here is my take.

The ATF took an action. Their Final Rule on bump stocks (.gov agencies love Final Rules btw...)

GOA sued for an injunction against that action. An injunction is a court order saying "you can't do that" for "reasons." Reasons in this case meaning congress has defined "machine gun" and the ATF redefined it. That creates a separation of powers conflict.

The district court dismissed the injunction citing Chevron as precedent.

The Appeals court said no, you are wrong in citing Chevron, this is a separation of powers issue and the plaintiffs GOA are likely to win this on the merits.

So now the Appeals court has directed it back to district court to be heard.




What could happen next (and probably will) is an appeal by DOJ to the full appellate court for an en banc hearing. Meaning all the judges and not just the three judge panel who heard this.
 
NCFubar said:
Not sure where on the exact legal path is now ... but the ATF will not go gentle into that good night. Yes, it is flex of gooberment power but it is also a way for the ATF to earn their keep. Government agencies need to prove their worth and the ATF really has a limited scope if action ... and the Bumpstock Ban was a pretty major one of their actions to show they are “necessary”. Think about what new things they actually can do to boost their worth. I don’t think they are going to let it go because it was the first grab in a line they have planned ... their pistol brace case they are building could be hurt somewhat by this so they aren’t going to let it go to easy.

And to add ... the binary triggers like the Rare Breed & Tac Com are not to far down their list. The ATF seized the STAMPS.COM account for guy selling the 3D printed wall hangers and has started contacting the buyers and being pretty nasty. They have done the AutoKey card guy the same way and the buyers of those are on edge about when the ATF will start on them.
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ATF has another test coming up. Creepy Joe is gonna ban "hi-cap" mags with an EO.
 
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Well it did start with Trump, he is correct.
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never said he was not correct but do you think if the democrats had been in charge after LV shooting that it would have only been Bump stocks. To be honest I am glad that the shooter used a bump stock because where he was and the amount of time he had, aimed shots would have increased the DEATH TOLL. there may have been less injured but likely more DEAD
 
How many of you remember our gun world before 1968??? Amazing!

Just because you have always lived with it shouldn't make it alright. Like the 20% of folks living where there are NO AR sales. It's Normal for them. You think they give a rat's ass about the fact that You might be in the same boat with them? They could care less. Some of the folks that say.....I'm 2A all the way BUT it's OK with me if they ban magazines over X rounds. And really, who Needs an AR style rifle. Bolts, levers, pumps and single shots are all Anybody Needs.

A few years down the road the gun owners will be as happy as they turned out to be after the 4473 came into existence. You shooters of today will be writing stuff like this old man.....Why Hellll, I remember when you could walk into a store and fill out a form and buy an AR of AK.

There's always more, they are relentless.
 
So can you have a friggin bump stock or not? Lol. I'm asking for a friend.

Cause he's gonna be sick if he finds out it's legal to possess them after he burned his in a fire.
 
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BatteryOaksBilly said:
Just because you have always lived with it shouldn't make it alright.
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I say the same thing when it comes to secession and those that claim the argument was settled in 1865. I wasn’t around then and wasn’t party to the agreement, so don’t expect me to agree to be bound by it.
 
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