Case orientation issue?

Sasquatch

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I've started shooting subsonics (suppressed) and enjoy the heck out of it. Less powder, less noise, and honestly more fun- hitting distant steel and getting that ring makes my wife smile every shot. I've got a good recipe in 308 for some 203 coated bullets (from someone in CLT who was getting out of the coated bullet business), but those are getting low and there's apparently no replacement, so I'm busy working up a substitute load with some 215 gallants which should be more plentiful. BTW, if anyone knows if those 203s, I'm in the market- think I got them on the other forum before it was canuckified.

Anyway, I'm trying to build up loads and honestly, subsonic is harder than supersonic to get an accurate load, compounded by very little published loads. I saw a youtube video about this, and think I just experienced it myself in that will low case fills (GRT says 50%), how the powder lies in the case will cause huge speed and SD changes depending how the bullet was loaded. In my case, I either got 800FPS, all the way to 1280. I'm convinced if I carefully set each one to vertical orientation, tapped it, and then single-loaded it, I'd get a better speed. (and yes, 1280 is way too high, but oddly, my mean speed is ~1050!).

One solution is to go for a shorter COAL, but I've had the koolaid that bullet jump is critical to accuracy (at least in supersonics). Getting this particular 300BLK load to a 90%+ case load, means shorterning COAL by 0.425! I know there are hacks from the old days by putting in some kind of filler, but I dont' want to go there. The next choice (which is hard because of lack of data) is to go for bulkier powders (Trailboss, or 5744), but that will take a while. GRT helps with this, as well as powder burn charts.

Anyway, was a frustrating day at the range, so just venting somewhat, but not giving up.
 
If you want high accuracy from a sub 300blk, then use a bullet made very specifically for that purpose. IMO, that'd be the Hornady 190 Sub-x. Great video review here: It was easily the most accurate, and best expanding. I use them for my home defense gun, but I use Berry's plated 220gr made for 300blk when I go hunting paper/steel. Of course, I also don't shoot it past 25y, so no idea just how accurate they are at 100.
 
I managed to pick up some sub-x at the Dixie Deer Classic. For loaded ammo, I wonder what their COAL is for me to try to reproduce.

For my subs, I go for 2, and 300 yards. I have it sighted for 200 yards, and do 4.5mil more for 300 yards.
 
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I managed to pick up some sub-x at the Dixie Deer Classic. For loaded ammo, I wonder what their COAL is for me to try to reproduce.

For my subs, I go for 2, and 300 yards. I have it sighted for 200 yards, and do 4.5MOA more for 300.
They've got a cannelure, so I seat to that line and put a light roll crimp on them. I've "heard" they're finicky with chambering if you try to seat them long; but that's purely just what I've heard. I've had no issues with mine though and load 10.5gr of ShootersWorld Blackout to get it right in the 1050 range.
 
BTW, if anyone knows if those 203s, I'm in the market
I think you're talking about bright red Palmetto Projectiles. I have a crate of them set back for the same purpose (not for sale, sorry). Loading 300BLK with them looks like I'm shooting lipstick tubes.

PP went under a few years back AFAIK. Their website palmettoprojectiles.com is not active any longer and forwards to something my ad blocker won't let through.

When I run out I'll be looking for creative ways to shoot subs.

I get good consistent velocity with H110 and a rifle primer through a 10.5" bbl. I don't mean precision ammo tiny ES/SD but +/-25 FPS typically.
 
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The whole thing sounds very chancy working with pistol powders in bottle neck Rifle, to get Sub Sonic loads.
I am looking to try the Powder called Trail Boss for loading down my .444 with 180 gr bullets.

The .444 round was not listed in their TB data so I sent them an E-mail.
The tech wrote back & said just dip & load your .444 case with TB & stuff the bullet down against the cheerios, crimp & shoot it.
 
The whole thing sounds very chancy working with pistol powders in bottle neck Rifle, to get Sub Sonic loads.
I am looking to try the Powder called Trail Boss for loading down my .444 with 180 gr bullets.

The .444 round was not listed in their TB data so I sent them an E-mail.
The tech wrote back & said just dip & load your .444 case with TB & stuff the bullet down against the cheerios, crimp & shoot it.
Oh yeah, Trailboss is made for that- bulky and reduced loads. But you shouldn't compress the load- it's actually a fast powder.
 
Oh yeah, Trailboss is made for that- bulky and reduced loads. But you shouldn't compress the load- it's actually a fast powder.
Ever since 75 I studied powder burn rates just like every other handloader did.

Named powders were rare, yet today you just have to read to choose a powder with all the names like 9mm or Mag pistol.
where does Trail Boss fall in the Burn rate chart, you said fast. Like IMR 4198 or IMR 3031 or more like a slow burning Pistol powder?
 
Trail boss is perfect for subs in high capacity cases, but I'm not sure you could stuff enough of it in a 300BLK case to reach 1000fps, and IIRC it's more expensive than other powders typically used. I use Lil'gun & load for my AR and Ruger American bolt action.

I agree re. high accuracy is more difficult to achieve with subs. Still trying to find the magic recipe.
 
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Ever since 75 I studied powder burn rates just like every other handloader did.

Named powders were rare, yet today you just have to read to choose a powder with all the names like 9mm or Mag pistol.
where does Trail Boss fall in the Burn rate chart, you said fast. Like IMR 4198 or IMR 3031 or more like a slow burning Pistol powder?
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Different powders react wildly different to case fill.

Early in my reloading endeavors, I noticed that the 357mag loads I worked up sometimes had a wide ES. In looking at the chrono data, I noticed the first shot from the cylinder was almost always the slowest. It dawned on me that this was the position-sensitivity that I had read about. I started doing a "powder forward" test with my loads after that. There was one powder where I saw a 300fps ES between powder-forward and powder-rear shots (AA#7). Other powders were much less position sensitive. (BE86 was one of the best).

Powders generally don't burn efficiently until they reach a certain pressure level. Generally speaking, running a slow burning powder at a low pressure is not as good as running a fast burning powder at a high pressure. Even though the fast burning powder will generally have a lower case-fill, it may perform more consistently since it is at a higher pressure for the same velocity.

Even if the case fill is the same, try a different powder. You might find something that works well.
 
I think you're talking about bright red Palmetto Projectiles. I have a crate of them set back for the same purpose (not for sale, sorry). Loading 300BLK with them looks like I'm shooting lipstick tubes.

PP went under a few years back AFAIK. Their website palmettoprojectiles.com is not active any longer and forwards to something my ad blocker won't let through.

When I run out I'll be looking for creative ways to shoot subs.
Yep, I dug up some old videos and those are them- except mine were black. I guess someone else was using the same mold. They are the only sub I've gotten acceptable accuracy out to 300 yards, so I'm still looking for them.
 
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