Chef/Kitchen Knives

CZfool68

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@Elenaidan got me looking a nice knives last weekend, and now I am thinking about buying a few. Was looking for advice for maybe a very nice 3-4 knife set. Maybe another one or two if I get overly anal. What do the cooks here suggest?

@wvsig
@SergeToll
 
Used henckels gran prix off ebay. (beater)

Richmond artifex 210mm gyuto(thin sharp knife)
Tojiro itk break knife (easy to resharpen bread knife that can double as a slicing)
Tojiro paring knife (detail work)
 
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@Elenaidan got me looking a nice knives last weekend, and now I am thinking about buying a few. Was looking for advice for maybe a very nice 3-4 knife set. Maybe another one or two if I get overly anal. What do the cooks here suggest?

@wvsig
@SergeToll
I have over a dozen of kitchen knives. From not expansive ceramic to $150 Japanize forged blade. However, In reality I use only 3-4.
#1 - most universal knife - is Japanize-Chinese Chef's 8" wide blade.
you could also find one in H-Mart Korean Supermarket. $25-$45
knife.jpg

#2 - paring knife - for any small jobs - any brand you like. I have Solingen.
#3 - fileting knife - to debone meat and skin fish. again, I have Solingen.
 
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How much you got? Feel like waiting?


 
I use my Wustof santoku knives all the time. 3' for paring, 8" for slicing and 10" for chopping. I have many other knives that have a purpose. Some pricey and some not so much. Those three are used daily.

I have them all professionally sharpened quarterly and none have seen the inside of the dishwasher.
 
My everyday knives are Mercer Culinary and the fancy ones I have are Shun. Honestly the Mercer's do 95% of what the Shun do, but the Shun have held an edge much longer. The BIGGEST thing for keeping any knife sharp I've found is utilizing a smooth honing rod to keep the edge straightened and not rolled over to one side; NOT a sharpening steel that removes material from the blade edge.


 
All you really need are a chefs knife (traditionally an 8” chef knife, but a 7” Santoku or Nakiri are fine alternates) and a paring knife. The third I would add is a 8 or 9” bread knife. Next I would add a peeling (birds beak) knife, and then either a 6” chef or 5” Santoku.

I have a block with about 15 Wusthof Classics (all different, no steak knives) but 80% of the time I use a 6” chef, 10% paring of some sort, 5% 7” Nakiri, and occasionally one of the others like the 9”chef for big stuff. On keto for close to a year, so no bread to cut :)

Sometimes I use a steel on them, and I sharpen them probably 3x/yr with a Spyderco sharpmaker (highly recommend). Never ever user an electric or carbide wheel sharpener, and the dishwasher is right out.
 
Or
Or adding a bread knife

Just examples - I didn’t look for best prices or sellers. I used to watch eBay (automatic search) and got deals on used knives, usually in lots, and ended up with 15 myself, a smaller sets for each of my 4 kids (adults now).
 
I have never used Shun, but a lot of people love them. My initial set of 6 or so Wusthof classics came from a very generous uncle when I married in ‘87. Those are still in great shape. I only have so many because I like collecting interesting specialty knives.
 
And watch a video or two on how to properly hold and use a chefs knife!! So much faster, easier, and safer. Thumb and index pinch the blade beyond the handle, and other three fingers lightly grip the handle for control. Handle is NOT in fist.
 
I have never used Shun, but a lot of people love them. My initial set of 6 or so Wusthof classics came from a very generous uncle when I married in ‘87. Those are still in great shape. I only have so many because I like collecting interesting specialty knives.
Chippy. Not because they are bad knives, but because the people that buy a Shun have usually only used dull, crappy knives like Old Hickory(Couldn't resist :p ), and wield their knives like crowbars. They don't know how to keep the edge sharp, and use the geometry of the blade to do the work, and instead are prone to forcing and prying.
If you can get good with a thin, hard knife, there's no going back.
 
Chippy. Not because they are bad knives, but because the people that buy a Shun have usually only used dull, crappy knives like Old Hickory(Couldn't resist :p ), and wield their knives like crowbars. They don't know how to keep the edge sharp, and use the geometry of the blade to do the work, and instead are prone to forcing and prying.
If you can get good with a thin, hard knife, there's no going back.
I love the 7” Nakiri for that reason (Wusthof - thinner blade and smaller bevel angle but no harder steel than my others). I used it almost exclusively instead of chef’s knife for quite a while, especially for salad and stir fry veggies. The straight edge is great for chopping. The edge has been maintained very sharp. The chef’s knife point is handy enough that it works more universally for me though so I have reverted to that as my default.
 
Great info folks. And admittedly part of my quest is admitting my techniques suck. Mostly me, some gear. Just like shooting.
 
One more thing - per knife price will be better in a set but make sure you base your “worth it” calculation just on the ones you actually want.

In particular, steak knives and “utility knives” (4-7” long, narrow blades) are pretty useless. You can carve your turkey with a chef knife just as well but if you want one 8-10” long slicer, up to you.

And keep them in a counter or drawer block, magnetic wall strip, or individual sleeves (less convenient). Do not let the edges get banged up. Blocks are cheap on eBay.

Oops, 2 things.
 
How much you got? Feel like waiting?


You sir, are not my wallet's friend. I really like the blade cutout so the edge is more below your hand. From Bunsen's post, I see Shun has a similar design in stock, for ~$100 less

I'll probably stare at one of these for a few years, then maybe get one.
 
Kitchen knifes is a rabbit hole.
This one looks like an Ulu mated with an 8" chefs knife. Could be quite handy, and it's cheap.
 
Kitchen knifes is a rabbit hole.
This one looks like an Ulu mated with an 8" chefs knife. Could be quite handy, and it's cheap.
Hmmm… that’s like a 3-4” usable blade for slicing cucumbers or anything at all thick. That rear extension looks like a gimmick to me.

With proper grip, you hand is centered over the heel of the knife anyway, where you are pinching the blade in front of the handle. That puts half or more of the edge behind the point you are controlling the knife.
 
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It’s a personal thing, learn to sharpen and use what you have and over time you’ll develop preferences.
 
You sir, are not my wallet's friend. I really like the blade cutout so the edge is more below your hand. From Bunsen's post, I see Shun has a similar design in stock, for ~$100 less

I'll probably stare at one of these for a few years, then maybe get one.
Ok, let's go into the nerdiness a bit.

knife.png

When you are looking for a knife, there's a lot of things you should consider, but here's two you mentioned, and one you should think about.
Choil: That's the area behind the edge. You want one that's ergonomic, that allows you to get your finger up in there. Pros/cons depending on how you like to hold your knife, but definitely a good choice.

Blade Height: Many chef knives/gyutos are about 50mm tall, but its become trendy to have taller ones, I prefer taller myself. So, taller chef knife. Also known as the "heel."

Belly: This is an important point you should consider. Notice how the MKC has a very pronounced curve(belly)? This is to allow you to make a long rocking motion, using the curve of the blade to do the cutting. Traditional western chef knives in most kitchens, Henckels and Wusthof, are usually designed this way. Not so good for slicing, but great at rocking.
The kiritsuke you showed has a belly, but notice how its a lot less pronounced, is overall flatter in profile? This is more the Japanese and French style, much more suited for a slice forward/backward, taking advantage of the flat surface to make a slicing cut. Determine the way you like to cut to determine which style knife you want.

Now, as to the MKC chef itself. The MKC is a great knife, but its a copycat. This is a ripoff design of a very famous blade. There's a guy in Oregon, Bob Kramer. Pretty much the first celebrity bladesmith in the western world to specialize in kitchen knives, and he has an iconic knife design.
1688473480360.png
See the same design aesthetics? Western style belly, high blade height, prounounced choil to fit the finger behind, rounded handle with lip at the back to hold hand in. That's the Kramer style. Unfortunately, you're looking at I think a 5 year waiting list and $400 per inch of blade.
However, lots of people copy him. He actually has cheaper, licensed copies, built to very high quality standards, made by Henkels.

They are pricey, but if you want amazing quality and design, imo they are the best for that price point.
 
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How much you got? Feel like waiting?



That might be a bit much for my skill set.
 
Oh, that kinda budget!
 
Oh, that kinda budget!

I was frugal. Really wanted the new Wusthof that’s about $300+ per knife. Plus got a fairly decent discount and deal since I‘ve done some other business with them. Wasn‘t cheap, but after cutting my bell pepper tonight I think it was a good call.
 
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FWIW, that veg cleaver is my wife’s favorite.

I do a lot with this, it’s my second one, first snapped back in the handle and fell apart, they replaced it under warranty…then discontinued it.
4C592CF7-DA6D-410E-815D-7D367B947F38.jpeg
 
I was frugal. Really wanted the new Wusthof that’s about $300+ per knife. Plus got a fairly decent discount and deal since I‘ve done some other business with them. Wasn‘t cheap, but after cutting my bell pepper tonight I think it was a good call.

I would be really tempted by the Wusthof Performers if I was starting from scratch. Post here in a month and let know how you like those Shuns.
 
I would be really tempted by the Wusthof Performers if I was starting from scratch. Post here in a month and let know how you like those Shuns.

Compared to what I have it’ll be hard not to like them. Cut up a pepper tonight and it was a wow moment. What a difference. Looking forward to trying them on all sorts of stuff.
 
I was frugal. Really wanted the new Wusthof that’s about $300+ per knife. Plus got a fairly decent discount and deal since I‘ve done some other business with them. Wasn‘t cheap, but after cutting my bell pepper tonight I think it was a good call.
it is more "knife art". the most important you have to enjoy it.
remember the chef's rule: every time you take a knife in a kitchen, you have to hone it.
 
I have cheap knives that I keep honed as in the video above. I will eventually get a really nice one, but these will do for now. Happy for @CZfool68. I know he will make some magic happen with hid culinary skills.
 
Agree. Same functionality but a little lighter and more nimble. I use 6” chef, 7” Nakiri, and occasionally 10” chef.
 
Part of my decision. The free sharpening is a nice option.
That is a great option with Shun! I mentioned it above, but I will reiterate it here that a smooth honing rod is the preferred option over a textured rod, aka sharpening steel. It is because it does NOT remove material from the blade edge and simply realigns the edge. I have kept my Shun's in razor sharp condition utilizing the smooth steel to reset the edge before each use for about a year with no need to send them in for sharpening service. Before I did that though I would use a strop over a sharpening steel to refresh them.

Dexter-Russell Butcher Steel, 12"


Strop Bat
 
After cutting some stuff last night I think I kinda want a 6” chef night. The 8” is a little large for some things. 😆
Since you already have the Nakiri then the Master Utility would be a touch redundant. Personally I'd grab a 7" or 5.5" Santoku



 
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That is a great option with Shun! I mentioned it above, but I will reiterate it here that a smooth honing rod is the preferred option over a textured rod, aka sharpening steel. It is because it does NOT remove material from the blade edge and simply realigns the edge. I have kept my Shun's in razor sharp condition utilizing the smooth steel to reset the edge before each use for about a year with no need to send them in for sharpening service. Before I did that though I would use a strop over a sharpening steel to refresh them.

Dexter-Russell Butcher Steel, 12"


Strop Bat

I also bought the smooth Shun steel. Good to go.
 
the last part of the honing video shows a knife guard.
i recommend a guard for whatever kitchen drawer knives
you have/buy. of course, a knife block eliminates that.
 
Now, I'm gonna have to disagree with @JimP42 on something.

Since you want something a little smaller than an 8" chef, here are your usual possibilities :
6" chef
5.5" santoku(7" is close enough to an 8" chef to not be worth considering.
Utility/petty knife

If I were going to get a knife that your wife could use, no question, 5.5" santoku. Women love santokus at that size.
But if I were going to get a smaller, nimble knife for me, I know jimp42 doesn't like them, but I love a petty knife. Has the length to do work like a chef knife, and you can really choke up on it when holding it like a paring knife.
Often times I will stick to just chef and petty knife, and never use a paring.
 
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