CLEO notification forwarded to local sheriff

Studentofthegun

Studentofthegun

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So when I submitted my Form 1 to the NCSHP, I did so based upon various recommendations. However, today I got an email from the legal counsel associated with my local sheriff's office. Apparently, the NCSHP forwarded my CLEO notification to them. I've never heard of this happening before.

This ever happen to anyone else?

Here is some of the verbiage from the email:

"The NCSHP forwarded the forms you sent to them to us because, in North Carolina, the agency with sole jurisdiction for the issuance and oversight of firearms permits on the state level is the sheriff’s office of each county. If you plan to make, register, or purchase any additional firearms which will require registration with the BATF, please notify us and list “Chatham County Sheriff’s Office, Sheriff Mike Roberson, P.O. Box 429, Pittsboro, NC 27312” in Block 10, rather than the NC State Highway Patrol, so that we can receive and keep the appropriate records."
 
fieldgrade said:
Unless I’m missing something, it seems to make sense to me.
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It doesn't make sense to me. For one thing, there's more than one CLEO. Also, the pistol permitting process is separate from the CLEO notification for NFA items.

One could have easily sent their CLEO forms to the police department if they so chose and would have fulfilled their legal obligation to notify.
 
Studentofthegun said:
It doesn't make sense to me. For one thing, there's more than one CLEO. Also, the pistol permitting process is separate from the CLEO notification for NFA items.

One could have easily sent their CLEO forms to the police department if they so chose and would have fulfilled their legal obligation to notify.
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I am not very knowledgeable in these things, but was it not the sheriff who had to sign off on such stuff prior to the changes in the law?
 
fieldgrade said:
I am not very knowledgeable in these things, but was it not the sheriff who had to sign off on such stuff prior to the changes in the law?
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Not for trusts.
 
frakncylons said:
I thought the requirement to notify CLEO was just that, a notification. You've notified them and you're done with your responsibility. If so, just let it fade away, no?
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Of course, but it is good for people to be aware of it.
 
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From what I recall, in NC your CLEO is the sheriff, not police.

IIRC my forms that have been done through SS in the past year were sent to the AG, who is the statewide CLEO.
 
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Jerzsubbie said:
From why I recall, in NC your CLEO is the sheriff, not police.

IIRC my forms that have been done through SS in the past year were sent to the AG, who is the statewide CLEO.
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The Sheriff's lawyer is telling me that the ONLY CLEO is the Sheriff's department. Period.

I'm not trying to argue about this, I'm simply relaying what was sent to me. I figured people might be interested to know because many of them have been sending their notifications to the Highway Patrol.
 
Actually, screw all this noise. I'm right and here is the proof.

27 CFR § 479.84 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov regulations.atf.gov

Notification of chief law enforcement officer.Prior to the submission of the application to the Director, all transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the transferee or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor.
 
Tailhunter said:
Pretty sure the chief law enforcement for the county is your sheriff and he is the only one you need to notify.
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That's not the only one that is a "CLEO". See above.
 
Studentofthegun said:
Actually, screw all this noise. I'm right and here is the proof.

27 CFR § 479.84 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov regulations.atf.gov

Notification of chief law enforcement officer.Prior to the submission of the application to the Director, all transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the transferee or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor.
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Well, to be fair, half of us are ignernt on these matter and trying to learn. You said Form1, then a trust, and the statute says "completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23”.

I for one don’t know what I don’t know, except that the sheriff “used” to have to sign -off on “NFA stuff", (as you undoubtedly know) and now he doesn’t. Clearly, the NCSHP is about as knowledgeable on these matters as I am, which is to say they aren’t. (And it appears the Chatham County sheriff’s office is as schooled in these matters generally speaking as ours is over here next door, which is to say they aren’t either.
 
Tailhunter said:
To many chief’s
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Ain't that the truth. Thing is, all I was doing was trying to comply with the letter of the law and still got a "You done wrong" letter. Oh well.
 
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Studentofthegun said:
Actually, screw all this noise. I'm right and here is the proof.

27 CFR § 479.84 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov regulations.atf.gov

Notification of chief law enforcement officer.Prior to the submission of the application to the Director, all transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the transferee or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor.
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And in addition to that list:


Who may qualify as a certifying official on an ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4 for the making or transfer of an NFA firearm?
As provided by regulations, certifications by the local chief of police, sheriff of the county, head of the State police, or State or local district attorney or prosecutor are acceptable. The regulations also provide that certifications of other officials are appropriate if found in a particular case to be acceptable to the Director. Examples of other officials who have been accepted in specific situations include State attorneys general and judges of State courts having authority to conduct jury trials in felony cases.
 
fieldgrade said:
Well, to be fair, half of us are ignernt on these matter and trying to learn. You said Form1, then a trust, and the statute says "completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23”.

I for one don’t know what I don’t know, except that the sheriff “used” to have to sign -off on “NFA stuff", (as you undoubtedly know) and now he doesn’t. Clearly, the NCSHP is about as knowledgeable on these matters as I am, which is to say they aren’t. (And it appears the Chatham County sheriff’s office is as schooled in these matters generally speaking as ours is over here next door, which is to say they aren’t either.
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The 5320.23 is the CLEO form, but I don't think the BATFE has different qualifications for CLEO based on a suppressor or a SBR. At least not that I've ever heard of.
 
Scott @ THSF sends all his to NCSHP, unless he’s changed something recently.

I’ve sent all of mine as well.

The sheriff’s lawyer is spouting nonsense. It would’ve been more appropriate for the NCSHP to return it to you instead of forwarding it on.
 
Studentofthegun said:
The 5320.23 is the CLEO form, but I don't think the BATFE has different qualifications for CLEO based on a suppressor or a SBR. At least not that I've ever heard of.
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5320.23 is the RPQ. Both the RPQ and the F1/F4 have CLEO copies. (Just to clarify)
 
BigWaylon said:
5320.23 is the RPQ. Both the RPQ and the F1/F4 have CLEO copies. (Just to clarify)
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Yeah I'm multitasking which isn't working out for me. I knew it was the RPQ. My mistake.
 
fieldgrade said:
I am not very knowledgeable in these things, but was it not the sheriff who had to sign off on such stuff prior to the changes in the law?
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Studentofthegun said:
Not for trusts.
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Not for anybody. The Sheriff never had to sign off. They could refuse. And you could also get any the people discussed earlier to sign instead. My dad worked for CMPD, and the Chief was going to sign off on mine until I decided to go through trust route.
 
Alls I know is notification for every form 1 and 4 for SC, goes to one dude sitting in Blythewood, SC.

I would need to look at the form again to know which dept he works in.
 
kcult said:
Alls I know is notification for every form 1 and 4 for SC, goes to one dude sitting in Blythewood, SC.

I would need to look at the form again to know which dept he works in.
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Every one from who? Any form sent to any of the hundreds of qualified CLEOs in the state, all get forwarded to him?
 
So, here's how it went down.

I called the lawyer and he at first insisted that I was not in compliance with the law. I thought that was a bit off because he's obviously "notified" now. Otherwise he wouldn't have known to send me an email. He eventually reversed himself and said he was not saying I was out of compliance with the law. His argument rested on the idea that the NCSHP does not technically qualify as the State Police, though it does in other states.

What I think has happened is the new NCSHP guy in charge has started sending them on to the Sheriff's Department in each county. Rather than filing them or whatever they were doing with them in the past.

So, I think one might want to take this into consideration in the future. I'll be sending mine to the local sheriff from now on. I don't think I'm out of compliance at all. Especially since he's got my CLEO notification forms now.
 
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@BigWaylon

From me.

I've been out of the game for a little bit, but instead of getting my county's sheriff's approval, or even notifying them (which I think was a thing), the forms are sent to one guy now, in Blythewood. I

You gonna make me look him up, aren't you?

Edit: Here 'tis...

South Carolina
South Carolina Highway Patrol a division of the South Carolina Department of Public Safety
Colonel Michael Oliver
10311 Wilson Blvd.
Blythewood, South Carolina 29016
803-896-7920

And, here is who gets them for NC. At least in 2016, this is who Silencer Shop used for CLEO.

North Carolina
North Carolina State Highway Patrol a division of the North Carolina Department of Public Safety
Col William Grey
512 North Salisbury Street
Raleigh, North Carolina 27604
919-733-7952
 
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kcult said:
@BigWaylon

From me.

I've been out of the game for a little bit, but instead of getting my county's sheriff's approval, or even notifying them (which I think was a thing), the forms are sent to one guy now, in Blythewood. I

You gonna make me look him up, aren't you?

Edit: Here 'tis...

South Carolina
South Carolina Highway Patrol a division of the South Carolina Department of Public Safety
Colonel Michael Oliver
10311 Wilson Blvd.
Blythewood, South Carolina 29016
803-896-7920

And, here is who gets them for NC. At least in 2016, this is who Silencer Shop used for CLEO.

North Carolina
North Carolina State Highway Patrol a division of the North Carolina Department of Public Safety
Col William Grey
512 North Salisbury Street
Raleigh, North Carolina 27604
919-733-7952
Click to expand...
Colonel Grey was about 2 or 3 commanders back now. Colonel McNeill just retired recently and now it’s Colonel Freddy Johnson in charge at NCSHP
 
kcult said:
@BigWaylon

From me.

I've been out of the game for a little bit, but instead of getting my county's sheriff's approval, or even notifying them (which I think was a thing), the forms are sent to one guy now, in Blythewood. I

You gonna make me look him up, aren't you?

Edit: Here 'tis...

South Carolina
South Carolina Highway Patrol a division of the South Carolina Department of Public Safety
Colonel Michael Oliver
10311 Wilson Blvd.
Blythewood, South Carolina 29016
803-896-7920

And, here is who gets them for NC. At least in 2016, this is who Silencer Shop used for CLEO.

North Carolina
North Carolina State Highway Patrol a division of the North Carolina Department of Public Safety
Col William Grey
512 North Salisbury Street
Raleigh, North Carolina 27604
919-733-7952
Click to expand...
SS changed to state Attorney General instead of head of state police/highway patrol at some point.
 
Gonna be interesting to hear how many notifications @TARHEELSTATE gets…
 
Called Silencer Shop. Apparently, if you got an approved tax stamp, you did it correctly. What the local lawyer dude and the ATF consider a CLEO might be two different things. If it isn't a valid CLEO, then the ATF would not have approved it.

They said they send it to the NCSHP, or at least I believe that's what the fella said on the phone. He was their compliance guy.

That's what they told me anyway. I might call the local ATF and ask. Might not. My goal is to simply be in compliance. That's all. I got my tax stamp and that will have to be enough.
 
Studentofthegun said:
Actually, screw all this noise. I'm right and here is the proof.

27 CFR § 479.84 | eRegulations

regulations.atf.gov regulations.atf.gov

Notification of chief law enforcement officer.Prior to the submission of the application to the Director, all transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of Form 4 or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the transferee or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the State police, State or local district attorney or prosecutor.
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I don’t know if you’re right or not, but my reading of the language, specifically “The chief law enforcement officer is...or...”, makes it pretty clear that there is only one CLEO in a jurisdiction. ATF doesn’t know who it is in every jurisdiction, so lists positions that it might be, but it is your responsibility to notify the right person. I was told that in NC it’s my sheriff, but I may have been told that by my sheriff or DA.
 
@Studentofthegun thanks for posting this.
It's my understanding that our current sheriff was the most left leaning of our options, and I've heard stories from three sources that work for different entities about a lack of character. Granted it's at best second hand, but the same details.
I'm more comfortable sending my paperwork to NCHP.
 
Studentofthegun said:
Called Silencer Shop. Apparently, if you got an approved tax stamp, you did it correctly. What the local lawyer dude and the ATF consider a CLEO might be two different things. If it isn't a valid CLEO, then the ATF would not have approved it.
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whoah slow down wait, so the govt messed something up?
this is the first i'm hearing of this.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
@Studentofthegun thanks for posting this.
It's my understanding that our current sheriff was the most left leaning of our options, and I've heard stories from three sources that work for different entities about a lack of character. Granted it's at best second hand, but the same details.
I'm more comfortable sending my paperwork to NCHP.
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Yeah, I've heard the same rumors with regard to lack of character. Among other things like selective enforcement etc.
 
NC Sheriff's office is the CLEO you notify. It has never been the State Police. You cant pick and choose. It's the Sheriff. Do you decide who you want to submit your concealed carry permit to? No, that too falls to the Sheriff's office.

There is no grey area here, it was and has been the County Sheriff's office where you live.
 
JGC1524 said:
NC Sheriff's office is the CLEO you notify. It has never been the State Police. You cant pick and choose. It's the Sheriff. Do you decide who you want to submit your concealed carry permit to? No, that too falls to the Sheriff's office.

There is no grey area here, it was and has been the County Sheriff's office where you live.
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Nonsense.
 
The situation here has nothing to do with CHPs or PPPs. It’s simply a new person running the NCSHP that has decided to change the rules that the previous ones followed.

The law itself hasn’t changed. Sheriffs, Police Chiefs, Attorney Generals, various lawyers and judges…all qualify as CLEO for the NFA process.
 
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