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Somebody in the family better put the 8 yr old nephew in a "safe house" somewhere and let him testify via video link....
As for the open door??? It's HER DOOR. If she want's it open, that's fro HER to decide. Now, on top of all the BS out there, we have LEO's prowling around PRIVATE PROPERTY in the wee hours of the morn and firing at the their own perceived evil shadows!!Unfortunate the woman did not call 911 to report a prowler in her yard. As for the door open, perhaps she was expecting a food delivery?
It's another example of outsourcing of responsibility.Never call the police for a wellness check. If you're that concerned, fo check for yourself.
The well-being - indeed your loved one's or friend's very life may depend on not getting the police involved at all.
Gun owner shoots up a place...people make broad sweeping judgements about all gun owners...we all cringe.
One cop (or two, counting the other one) acts negligently, and people on here make broad sweeping judgements on all cops.
Both responses are wrong.
Maybe she was waiting on a friend or family member, maybe it was hot inside, maybe she burned some food and was airing out the house, maybe she just wanted some fresh air. What difference does it make if the door is open or not, strange at 2:30 in the morning, but it ain't worth the police snooping around just because they want to. I know the neighbor called, but at some point the police should tell the neighbor sorry, a open door doesn't warrant us going to snoop and see what might be wrong.
I think a lot of folks already do and want nothing to do with them. They’re no keeping the people safe, they’re not preventing crime. Most honest people’s interactions with them are either going to be when they act as the Crown’s highwaymen under the lie of safety or when they’ve been victimized and will get a lesson in how abjectly useless the legal system is.It's a damn shame that we are moving in the direction of not only not being able to expect a reasonable response, but getting to the point where avoidance of LE interactions might be the best path forward.
"The murder of this innocent woman represents a breaking point," Merritt said. "Atatiana Jefferson should be enjoying her family today. A clear message has been sent – we are no longer safe in our own homes." Emphasis mine. Making people, or whole communities feel that they are not safe in their own homes seems to me to be a dangerous, slippery slope.
Training needs to change. I'm held accountable for every round fired. Police are not above the law and should be held to a higher level. The officer made himself the threat.
CD
No they can't. Just like no one can tell you you have to wait to be shot at before defending yourself.Jurisdictions can have a policy in place that officers can only fire once fired upon.
Why do you carry a gun? what are you a'skeert of?These danged police are scared of their shadows. These innocent lives lost were because of the Police being , without cause, afraid for their lives. Why do they choose this career path if they are always afraid?
Jurisdictions can have a policy in place that officers can only fire once fired upon. I know of at least three innocent lives this policy could have saved. If the LEOs can't live with that policy then find a different career.
You are so correct. If you are not active military then you are a civilian as well when an officer. Your first priority is to de-escalate the situation. Outfitting law enforcement like military was a bad mistake.We all see that this is bad policing. Hell, it's bad citizenship and absolutely no common sense. If you have a duty to inform a police officer of anything you are carrying; then, they DAMN WELL have a duty to inform you when they are on your property.
He was scared he was going to get shot? Then don't walk up on someone's house with a flashlight and looking in windows. I know the first thing that would come to my mind if I were to sneak around a neighbors house with a flashlight is that I would probably get shot! This makes no sense and is shear utter lunacy of the police officer.
An as the original Post stated, not the old one, the new one. Both are extremely similar! And what needs to happen before this gets exploded into a Racial Shooting, is to show the same thing that happened in Greenville, SC to an old white guy. It has nothing to do with Race... but you are seeing the Race-Hustlers and Pimps already there to explode this out.
This is a societal problem with community police being too damn scared to do the job that is required. That is why there used to be such an arduous testing process before you were ranked to get into an Academy. Evidently, those restrictions are lax to say the least.
If you do not have the courage to go up and ring the doorbell and ask if everything is okay.... Sit your ass down on Main Street ans wait for the parking meters to run out and write tickets.
I am neither Pro-Cop or Anti-Cop... I am just for Common Decency and Model Citizenship. Lately we are hearing Police Agencies use the term "civilian" or "civies"... bullshit... if you are not Active Military; you are a civilian regardless of your job.
Dumb Ass.... I can actually believe that the woman that shot the man in his apartment actually was confused but it was her mistake, she was in that man's castle and she committed a crime when she killed him. She will pay for it and I think she will find peace knowing that she will be paying for her mistake. I believe this to be the case as the brother of the man forgave her in court and hugged her.. that took real courage.
This cop can claim no such confusion. He should be held up as what not to do, because once our basic civil liberties are violated by whomever... we have already past the point of no return for our Republic.
For many years sheriffs have been sending swat teams to train at military bases. Not with the military but instructed on their property. They were to Fing scared to join the real heroes so they became Barney Fife with more than one bullet. Maybe it’s time for LEO to just get one bullet and keep it in their shirt pocket. Andy was able to recognize a scared officer was a threat to the town.Like someone posted earlier, when you are taught and train in war style tactics. You treat everyone you interact with like a enemy combatant. Give me back the old days, if you smarted off or acted a fool you might get smacked upside the head. The only hurt might be to your pride, rather have a sore face than to be shot.
There is little doubt about this.IMHO, the shift from peace officer to COD/SWAT uniforms, gear & tactics being employed by the police for so many citizen encounters is directly attributable to the Federal government giving militaristic gear and funding for militaristic training and uniforms. GovCo had no business escalating the fight in that manner - unless the end goal was to establish an occupation.
Chuckman,I have been 'out of the field' for a bit, but before I started pimping myself out for more money, 'we' (LE/fire/EMS) would critically think through welfare checks. I have been on maybe 50, plus/minus. In every single one (every. Single. One) the cop would do a walk-around, look in windows. If there was no response they'd call family to come with a key. If you could see someone inside who could not come to the door, and/or fire would be called, and we decided how to enter. Of course the increased 'I've-fallen-and-can't-get-up' buttons have mitigated it quite a bit. I don't recall any where there was a door open. @SPM a lot of our calls were from family members out of state. I would say in the vast majority no one was home.
Chuckman,
Would you first knock on the door and announce yourself or walk around outside and peek into windows first?
CD
Are you thinking drug deal? Prostitution? Both? Affair? Or something else?I said well I have a photo of your license plate now, and this is a highway so you might want to move on and wait somewhere else. Their eyes got really big and they took off lol.
No they can't. Just like no one can tell you you have to wait to be shot at before defending yourself.
That statement is not intended as a defense of this case.
Are you thinking drug deal? Prostitution? Both? Affair? Or something else?
I ain't skeered of anything.Why do you carry a gun? what are you a'skeert of?
Your statement makes just as much sense...
Fort Worth police officer accused of shooting and killing black woman has resigned, chief says
https://www.foxnews.com/us/fort-worth-police-officer-in-shooting-investigation
Merritt said Monday that the incident shows that the Fort Worth Police Department is in "need of serious systematic reform.
"We are asking that the federal government comes in, the Department of Justice comes in and takes a heavy, conscious look at the policies and procedures that allowed something like this tragedy to happen," he told reporters Monday.
Any officer who is injured because they had to wait to be shot before defending themselves will end up owning the town. No department will open themselves up to that kind of liability.Any LEO agency can be ordered, or by policy, to hold fire until fired upon
And we covered this in a thread. The consensus was, how stupid could some one be.And there is even some conversations going around about changing some of the language in this law
Reminds me of how Massad Ayoob would say that if you wait to see their gun then you’re going to get to see what comes out of it.Any officer who is injured because they had to wait to be shot before defending themselves will end up owning the town. No department will open themselves up to that kind of liability.
Agree not a race issue but a stupidity issue.
We’re stuck in a cycle that just continues to get worse and I don’t see an end in sight.
Dad was a lawman for 48 years, 20 of those as High Sheriff.
Small town, rural country Sheriff.
One time he got called to a fight at a dive bar out in the middle of nowhere. Drunk inside the bar starts shooting at him with a rifle. Dad never took a shot at him, and within 30 minutes had talked the guy into coming out and giving it up.
Another time, he got called to a domestic. Drunk son and father were fighting it out. There were already 4 deputy's and several State Police on the scene since the son was shooting at them from inside the house, smartly..all were taking cover behind their cars.
Dad arrives and within a few minutes walks up to the door, the whole time talking to the son. The son had a 38 special leveled at Dad's chest the whole time. Dad manages to get face to face with the boy, and during a moment when the boy looked away, Dad grabs the revolver from his hand.
But not before the kid gets a shot off and hits Dad in the chest.
The bullet hits Dad's badge and ricochets into his shoulder. At that point the kid had about 8 officers jump on him, but they never shot him.
Dad has dozens of stories like this, and in 48 years...never shot anyone.
Now you tell me...after 48 years of wearing the badge, don't you think that there were many times when Dad would have been absolutely in the right to cap some a--hole who had it coming?
I can't recall all the times I heard my Dad tell his deputies to keep everything and everybody calm.
And it worked.
Now-a-days, while the police apologist's go on & on about how their training is better than it ever has been, the standard method has become to storm the situation screaming and yelling confusing orders while brandishing hardware with the hammer pulled back and a shaky finger on the trigger.
Wtf? This is considered 'better training'? Swarming in screaming like a bunch of Apache's ramping everything up to eleven on a scale of ten?
How did it come to this? The Police own this crap. They got sold on the citizenry being the enemy and needing to adopt militaristic methods and attitudes.
There are many lawmen who, although get trained in these methods, realize that most of the time it's completely unnecessary and act accordingly.
And God love em for it.
Whats it gonna take to get back to keep everything and everybody calm?
The police and the citizens are just the pawns in this game. The kings and queens in the administrations that insist on using these horrendous methods are the ones who need to be taken to the courthouse square and hung till dead.