Does powder make that much of a difference?

KnotRight

KnotRight

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Let me start off by saying that I am not the best shot out there.

When looking at a load in any manual and say using a 223 rounds. At 2900 ft/sec there might be 6 different loads for the same bullet.

How much difference would the average shooter recognize at 100 yards? I might be able to get 4 to 5 rounds in a 1.5 inch circle with my current gun and scope. Do you think that could change .5 of an inch one way or the other with a different powder at the same feet per second?
 
Factor in temperature sensitivity, case fill %, and burn rate and you will see that powder makes all the difference in some calibers. Also most test data is done in 24" barrels with closed actions. It makes a difference in a 16" semiauto
 
You might as well ignore the speeds listed in manuals. Those are representative of a single situation. Yes, powder makes that much of a difference. You'll only find which one your gun likes by testing and working up loads. Don't just pick the speed you want and assume it's going to work. I've tried some powders that I just couldn't get to work in some guns. Then I find the right powder, with the right quantity, and the right distance to the lands and magic happens.
 
Depends on what you want. Range, plinking, general shooting, maybe not much of a difference. Because, who really cares if it's just for fun. Long range, measuring your groups, or competition, might be worth the effort. Because at that point everything matters.

Personally, if it runs and shoots decent I go with it. I'm not going to stock 3-4 powders for each round hoping to find the best one. That's not what I'm in it for. YMMV and all that.

If you played with all the components would it change, probably. How much time and money is that .5" worth to you?
 
Think of powder as fuel for yer truck, car, boat, motorcycle etc. If it's a gasoline engine and you fill up with Diesel....yes it does make a difference.
 
The velocities in manuals are averages, doesn't mean the ES and SD are anywhere near the same.

Also burn rate affects barrel harmonics and bullet obturation.

How much difference at 100, could be substantial, could be indistinguishable.
 
KnotRight said:
Do you think that could change .5 of an inch one way or the other with a different powder at the same feet per second?
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Yes. I have seen it numerous times but have yet to use an appropriate 223 powder that would not shoot well if I found the right combination.
 
Coltdefender1911 said:
Think of powder as fuel for yer truck, car, boat, motorcycle etc. If it's a gasoline engine and you fill up with Diesel....yes it does make a difference.
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It doesn't even have to be that dramatic. Octane levels, ethanol/alcohol levels and brands. Do they make a difference?
 
georgel said:
It doesn't even have to be that dramatic. Octane levels, ethanol/alcohol levels and brands. Do they make a difference?
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Exactly, my truck doesn't care if I use 87, 89, or 93. Shell, HP, whatever. I certainly cannot tell the difference. I think this is a good analogy for handgun ammo. Rifle ammunition may be different, especially for precision long range shooting.
 
Lee_Dingle said:
Exactly, my truck doesn't care if I use 87, 89, or 93. Shell, HP, whatever. I certainly cannot tell the difference. I think this is a good analogy for handgun ammo. Rifle ammunition may be different, especially for precision long range shooting.
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That's an interesting experience to what was supposed to be the opposite point. My truck can tell the difference. For example, my truck hates Mobil, it doesn't run nearly as well or idle as smoothly. Im thinking it's the ethanol content, because alcohol is not as efficient burning. Some cars require certain minimum octane levels to run well. For ME it matters, in powders too, because they all have different characteristics that I notice and have an impact on my performance. But, if all you're interested in is getting from point A to point B, then maybe it doesn't matter.
So, the point is, it matters if it matters to YOU. Your Milage My Vary
 
Powder can make a difference, even in pistol.

I've noticed that some powders are "happy" when they operate in a certain pressure range. Trying to load reduced recoil loads with a slow burning powder, for instance, may leave the gun very dirty and not give low SD or velocity spread. Use a faster burning powder for that. I usually work up loads with 5 steps in charge, from min to max. Quite often I will find one charge that will give single digit standard deviation.

Most powders are somewhat position sensitive, especially with 38spl or 357mag. For those calibers I usually do a "powder forward" test. For 3 shots I will start with the barrel down, bring the gun slowly up to the target, cock the gun and fire. (This is "powder forward"). For the other 3, I start with the barrel up. (This is "powder rear"). I've seen some powders with 300fps difference. Of course, if using a powder with good case fill, this is much less of a problem.
 
I haven't used a great variety of powders, but I can tell a difference with some. I get the best results out of my 308 with Reloader 15, but I get the best results from my 30-30 with IMR 30-31. I can use either powder in either cartridge though.

My go to 38 load uses titegroup, but in 357 I get better results with H110. With 44 special I get good results from Trailboss, and 44 mag I use Win 296 or H110.

Depending on your gun, your goals, how hot you want the load, etc, powder can matter a little or a lot. I recommend picking up a few powders and experimenting and finding out what works best for you.
 
Lucky13bullets said:
Yep. I do the same. I know you probly got more data than almost anybody here. I followed your testing a lot over on the other forum before I left and I have read about all your testing posts here. You are thorough!
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Thanks! I was looking at my chrono data the other day, I have shot almost 750 groups across my Caldwell chrono in the last 3 years. I have not shot it yet (knock on wood). :D
 
Wow, this is a heated topic. I was not trying to say that powder cannot make a difference, but that sometimes the difference doesn't matter. One of the great things about reloading your own ammunition is that you can achieve certain results or goals and those are goals of your choosing. For example, I have worked up several loads using fast burning rifle powders for use in short barreled rifles while shooting suppressed. My goal was to have all the powder burned before the end of the barrel so I wan't dumping un-burned powder into my suppressor.
 
I did the same thing for an AR pistol. I was getting a big muzzle flash, more recoil than I cared for, and it was noticeably louder than a carbine. I used the fastest burning powder I could find. H4198 at the min charge was perfect! It was not going to be used for accuracy, just plinking, so I did not really care if I had single digit SD. At slightly higher charges (so it wouild cycle) it was also a very inexpensive load for plinking with my carbine, about $0.18 per round.
 
Tailhunter said:
Exactly.

5 and 8 pounders are what I collect.
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I don't buy 8 pounders until I have figured out what I like. I was fairly new to reloading when I started collecting different powders to try out, and wouldn't you know it was during the big shortage.

Titegroup, BE86, Trailboss, Varget are the ones I have in big jugs now.
 
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