First time in medical history...... (TL/DR)

tanstaafl72555

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we have done this.

The standard method for "controlling" a contagion is using basic common sense. YOU ISOLATE THE VECTORS AND ENCOURAGE... or if things get too intense.... DEMAND THEY ISOLATE.

This is the first time ever that we have focused on quarantining the healthy instead. Demanding people stay home, practice "social distancing" and masking up are modified quarantine methods... only slightly downgraded.

The rationale is that we have oodles and oodles of non symptomatic carriers running around shedding virus without knowing it.

This is so silly it makes my head hurt to think about it.

1) there is the issue of test result integrity. When you have organizations which have documented problems of testing papaya and animal livestock tissue samples and coming back hot (this happened with WHO labs, and the president of the African country threw them out of the nation), reporting 100% of all samples as infected, or "misplacing" the decimal so that 9.8% of samples being infected gets reported as 98% (both happened in Florida this past week, on a LARGE percentage of testing lab results), or as tests run by Stanford Medical School report, over 60% of all tests report viral load in areas where sickness is less than 2%... SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH THE TEST METHODOLOGY. I have participated in lots of analytical data gathering in my time, and these kinds of numbers would AT LEAST cause me and my colleagues to temporarily throw out the data and recalibrate the instrumentation, the sampling methods, the assumptions... or SOMETHING. I mean, we have been at this for over 4 months now, and the Karen crowd is still hysterically screeching about the need to be "responsible" and "respectful" and "listen to the science".... by which they mean alarmist headlines which have little if anything to do with actual science. The mantra tirelessly repeats "well, since we DON'T know... we should err on the side of caution..... as after all, lives are at stake here."
Let me give you an example of this kind of reasoning and how it works. I once reviewed GWAP (ground water assessment plans) for water testing for polluted SUPERFUND sites for region 7 EPA. we did some pretty ugly sites with pretty ugly groundwater contamination. We had to make scientifically sound decisions on what the contaminant load was, and what the remediation (clean up) decisions were to be. These were issues which affected community health and literally millions and millions of dollars. If we took the perspective that "the issues are too serious... peoples lives and health are at stake.... we must demand SAFETY" then the people who this would affect (mostly large corporations WHO OBEYED THE DISPOSAL LAWS AT THE TIME, WHEN WE KNEW LESS ABOUT THE LONG TERM TOXIC EFFECTS) would raise hell, and rightly so..... only this time it is not just a fortune 100 company....., it is the economic survival of an entire nation. They are requesting...., no, DEMANDING... that we follow what can only be described as idiotic and scientifically unsound draconian measures... because... because Karen is worried. In a word, no. No, I won't obey and submit and cooperate with this foolishness, because I am a free man.... and like they never tire of suggesting, I listen to the science, not just the scientists.

2) there is the issue of what good this self quarantine actually does. They would have us believe that the disease is virulent, deadly, highly contagious, able to remain suspended in air for hours and spread by the most incidental contact.... AND able to be transmitted to otherwise non symptomatic people so that they go merrily tripping about shedding virus to any and all, insouciantly infecting scores of hapless victims in their wicked and heedless selfishiness. BESIDES the silliness of this scenario, the lethal and virulent nature of this model makes any and all attempts to contain such a silent and widespread killer are going to fail... utterly fail. The only reasonable strategy here would be to follow the path we have done whenever there is a killer for which there is no cure..... we let it burn itself out. Contagions do that, you know. They kill (as much as 25 per cent of the population of Europe, for a past reference) and then they fade away. Let me stress that even with the wildly inflated numbers purporting to be Covid deaths (haven't even mentioned that scam!)... EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE THAT A PERSON WHO WAS RUN OVER BY A CAR AND TESTED POSITIVE WERE A "COVID DEATH"..... this wild and irresponsible method of demanding draconian self quarantine would be ineffective...... so why bother.... other than to feel good about how much we care?

I am just urging citizens of what once was known to be petulant, combative, arrogant, and resistant to claims on freedom and liberty .....to the point of open hostility, to consider reclaiming a bit of that heritage and learn once again to say "no."

That's all.
 
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I find it interesting that no one in the MSM is harping on the "flattening the curve" narrative any longer. When this first started, we were told we needed to self-quarantine/lockdown/wear masks/whatever, to flatten the curve. Mind you, the area under said curve was not decreased, only spread out over a longer period so the hospitals could cope with the potential influx of patients. So from the beginning, we knew (if you read between the lines) the spread was not going to be contained, only slowed. The absurdity of wearing a cotton mask to prevent a virus from entering or exiting is beyond logic to me. And the virulence (pun intended) of the loony lefties if you are not wearing a mask tells you all you need to know about where that side wants to take this country should they be allowed to helm a senatorial majority OR the White House. This cancel culture of "non-conforming" ideas are bad has to end. Period.
 
Well, not the first time we have instructed healthy people to isolate/quarantine, but definitely the first time (I know of) at this scale.

We flattened the curve, NC did that by end of April, beginning of May. What we are seeing is a surge, and we'll have to see how that affects hospitals.
 
I guess my point about the flattening the curve info from March is I think it would go a long way in reassuring people that this was expected from the beginning, not some mysterious surge because your neighbor isn't wearing a bandanna over their mouth and nose. If people were reminded by the media that this is all part of the natural progression, we might have less hostility between the masked & non-masked public. Slowing the spread does not lessen the spread, and I think that is lost on most of the general public.
 
If I hear another frantic 'tard' yelling "But the cases are increasing!!" I'm going to loose it. I ask one question of them: How are the cases being found? (crickets)...

It's because of TESTING dunce! 1 positive = 1 case
Nothing about the person being sick and needing medical care, nothing.
Now I hear that testing facilities are reporting 97% positive but a recheck shows 7%?!?!
The curve has been flattened, don't want to be exposed stay home. Even then it won't help you as much as you think. Like the masks...

If it was as bad as the media is reporting we should all have it and be on our death bed! But that's not the case. Argh, rant-off...

I feel for the ones who have caught it and suffered, also the family of those. Of all my acquaintances, I know of two. That still doesn't mitigate the hurt felt...
 
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Anybody think they will close down again before the Election? Complete with the "bonus unemployment".

Yeap, and they will have you mail in a ballot or someone will come to you with a clip board, stand 6 feet to who knows how far away, and record “your” choices in politicians on a sheet of paper.
 
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It would be nice if the sick/ asymptomatic had a nice big red A on their forehead so we knew who they were.
If this stuff is really so deadly and we have no method of knowing who is a vector, then none of the preparatory measures are going to help at all.
 
If this stuff is really so deadly and we have no method of knowing who is a vector, then none of the preparatory measures are going to help at all.

Well I walk down the street and don't know who might try to rob me, so I carry a gun.

I can't see all the things that are threats but I try to protect myself from them.

I could not tell what girls had the clap in the '80 so I wore a rubber. Still VD free!!!
 
I will applaud anyone who wants to protect themselves from perceived threats, of course. I happen to believe the threat level from covid is actually very much lower than perceived. Just like I support someone's right to shield themselves no matter what the threat (carry is a good example), so I object to being forced to participate in what I consider silly nonsense, even if I am howlingly, stupidly wrong. Good luck and good health to you
 
What amazes me, is its like everyone has forgotten that not too long ago we were told NOT to wear masks as they only had the magical properties of working on physicians and nurses lol. I called BS then, and wore one as I saw fit. Still wear one at my discretion, but definitely not per Coopers Orders. Anyway, I just find it amusing that the population doesn't notice the government just constantly f*&ks with them and will say anything meeting their immediate political needs, including 100% contradiction in the near future. When hospitals needed them, we were lied to, when election season nears closer, we are lied to...Be an independent critical thinker. Its not THAT hard for folks to assess their particular situation and act in THEIR OWN interest.

I don't feel like buying over priced masks every week or washing my reusable every day. My habits reflect that based on reasonable exposure risks.
 
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The threat level from COVID_19 is near nothing. We should be out and about as per normal. It is part of the world now. This is 100% political at this point.

I would probably call it 'trivially high' rather than no longer existing. I've been saying since ~10k patients in US had it (and tens of thousands more around the world), that 'every one who is gonna get COVID WILL get COVID, flattening the curve was only to avoid unnecessary deaths as a result of hospitals being over capacity. What boggles my mind, is that we have made little effort to 'increase capacity' in preparation for the inevitable rise in cases (unflattening curve) as economies opened back up. Stimulus money went to all the wrong places. People and governments around the world pretended this wouldn't be endemic disease even when there were over a million known cases lol. crazy...
 
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Statistics be damned, it is nothing more than a tool used by the politicians of this world to cover their inabilities. Schools will soon open without the ability to trace the infected and yet again another way of spreading the disease to those that were once isolated. Sadly this time around the immune deficient will fall prey to their children’s movements. How stupid can it get.
 
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There is no surge. The numbers are all fudged. FL has over 300 testing centers that reported 100% positive results. Hospitals are paid to report Clovis cases. Paid extra for ICU admissions. Case coders are being pressured to code Covid whenever someone has so much as a temperature because it pays better. It's all B.S., it's all political, it's all to get Trump because nothing else has worked. It's all about protecting The Swamp, Dems and Repubs alike, and protecting the Legacy of the most corrupt administration in history, Osama O and his commie anti-colonialist America-hating zealots, the Clinton crime machine, the Biden family crime machine, it goes on and on. Trump keeps throwing rocks in the gears, and they'll do anything to get him out, including enabling an idiotic Marxist revolution.
 
There is no surge. The numbers are all fudged. FL has over 300 testing centers that reported 100% positive results. Hospitals are paid to report Clovis cases. Paid extra for ICU admissions. Case coders are being pressured to code Covid whenever someone has so much as a temperature because it pays better. It's all B.S., it's all political, it's all to get Trump because nothing else has worked. It's all about protecting The Swamp, Dems and Repubs alike, and protecting the Legacy of the most corrupt administration in history, Osama O and his commie anti-colonialist America-hating zealots, the Clinton crime machine, the Biden family crime machine, it goes on and on. Trump keeps throwing rocks in the gears, and they'll do anything to get him out, including enabling an idiotic Marxist revolution.
How much longer before the deaths from the virus will be a plot against Trump?
 
How much longer before the deaths from the virus will be a plot against Trump?

There's a new virus out there that seems to be a weird combo of SARS and AIDS that CAN create an immune response in SOME people that is characterized by a rapid onset of blood clotting in capillarys of the lungs, and/or brain, and/or renal system. In my speculation it is a result of virology research. ...But all the numbers are now exaggerated for political and financial purposes. Most people counted as covid positive or as a covid death didn't have it at all. It's an election year with the Deep State being exposed because HRC didn't manage to get drug across the finish line to her slam-dunk victory and a very inconvenient interloper is screwing up the Royal System royally.
 
And to add to that, early on, more covid cases were killed by exaggerating the immune response with invasive closed system ventilators than were actually killed by the virus itself. I told you guys that back in April.
 
There is no surge. The numbers are all fudged. FL has over 300 testing centers that reported 100% positive results. Hospitals are paid to report Clovis cases. Paid extra for ICU admissions. Case coders are being pressured to code Covid whenever someone has so much as a temperature because it pays better. It's all B.S., it's all political, it's all to get Trump because nothing else has worked. It's all about protecting The Swamp, Dems and Repubs alike, and protecting the Legacy of the most corrupt administration in history, Osama O and his commie anti-colonialist America-hating zealots, the Clinton crime machine, the Biden family crime machine, it goes on and on. Trump keeps throwing rocks in the gears, and they'll do anything to get him out, including enabling an idiotic Marxist revolution.

Uh, yeah, there is. At least in NC.
 
Says who? "The Experts" ? Uh, yeah...

Which hospital do you work for? How long have you been in the medical field? What data are you looking at? How are you tracking the admissions?

So yeah, says me, who has been on the front line of it since day 1, seeing the impact in several hospitals in NC.

Remember, the man with experience will beat a man with an opinion every time....
 
Which hospital do you work for? How long have you been in the medical field? What data are you looking at? How are you tracking the admissions?

So yeah, says me, who has been on the front line of it since day 1, seeing the impact in several hospitals in NC.

Remember, the man with experience will beat a man with an opinion every time....

Thanks for your efforts, but you have a two or three data points. The data wouldn't be so massively manipulated if this was real. What percentage of your subsidized "Covid admissions" are from nursing homes?
 
Thanks for your efforts, but you have a two or three data points. The data wouldn't be so massively manipulated if this was real. What percentage of your subsidized "Covid admissions" are from nursing homes?

Not trying to be argumentative or pissy - but, define "surge".

@Railsplitter , great question, subjective answer. Here, a surge is an increase of admissions of "x" and/or diagnosis of "x" over a short period of time. Part of the problem with having a hard percentage definition is that a 75-bed hospital will define it differently than a 1,000-bed hospital. In our ICUs and ED, there is an algorithm of "N" of "X" over "Y" time, which automatically triggers certain resources.

@Aardvark , actually I have data from every hospital in the state. Every hospital is seeing a statistically significant increase of COVID admits. In my institution, about 20% are from nursing homes. Also, the ages of the COVID-specific admits is lower than it was, which will probably be a good thing (fewer will die); however, what we don't know is what the long-term sequelae will be.

Regardless of the numbers you see in the media, when the rubber meets the road in the hospital, it's very real.

Now, if you want to have an argument about the politicization of the numbers, manipulation of the numbers, all that, I am game. If have seen this as well. I have my own opinions about political manipulation, but one thing I see very clearly is a very piss-poor ability to stratify and quantify data at the county and state level (I do not pay attention to national). For example, if I go to the drive-thru and get tested and it's positive, it gets sent to the county and state as a positive. If I come back tomorrow and get tested, it will still show me as positive, and it still gets sent to the country and state as positive. If I get tested and it's negative, it may or may not get sent.
 
EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE THAT A PERSON WHO WAS RUN OVER BY A CAR AND TESTED POSITIVE WERE A "COVID DEATH"..... this wild and irresponsible method of demanding draconian self quarantine would be ineffective...... so why bother.... other than to feel good about how much we care?
What took you so long to get to the punch line?

A substantial portion of the population has accepted the idea that they can individually do something meaningful about everything that comes along. Then they get slapped in the face by the reality that they are effectively powerless against something as tiny as a virus. Since effective action is largely unavailable, they adopt rituals or talismans to signal their desire to do something positive.
 
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What took you so long to get to the punch line?

A substantial portion of the population has accepted the idea that they can individually do something meaningful about everything that comes along. Then they get slapped in the face by the reality that they are effectively powerless against something as tiny as a virus. Since effective action is largely unavailable, they adopt rituals or talismans to signal their desire to do something positive.

Absolutely. Everybody wants to "be somebody". The Left so often provides cost-free, effort free ways to do gain the esteem of the the groupthink Twitbook herd.
 
Well reporting will be going thru the WH now so they can cook the numbers the way they want now.
Reporting will go to the Department of Health and Human Services rather than being sent to the CDC to be entered and then sent to HHS. CDC falls under HHS. The goal is to automate the process. Right now each case with over 100 data points is manually entered. The Dept. Of HHS is taking the process so they can change over to automatically uploading the data hospitals currently collect rather than reentering it into 4 different reporting systems. White House will get data from HHS.
 
What took you so long to get to the punch line?

A substantial portion of the population has accepted the idea that they can individually do something meaningful about everything that comes along. Then they get slapped in the face by the reality that they are effectively powerless against something as tiny as a virus. Since effective action is largely unavailable, they adopt rituals or talismans to signal their desire to do something positive.

I have been thinking about this --or what passes for "thinking" when I am doing it- I am astounded when I read some of the people I consider to be true intellectuals. Their grasp of culture, currents of opinion (especially political opinion), cultural movements and ebbs and flows, monetary principles etc etc...., is staggering. I feel like my autistic grandson who is struggling to scribble lines at all... not words or shapes.... just lines, when you compare him with some literary genius. I really don't know anything. -- that is what I am thinking right now.

Anyway, I have been "thinking" on why masks and I don't think it is simply virtue signalling, though that is big. I think there is a compulsive need for leaders to be seen as "doing something." People a programmed to look to something bigger than themselves to protect them, solve their problems, lead them, save them. They naturally gravitate to political leaders and give them power to perform, and the leaders see this source of power and make promises to deliver. When a crisis or series of crises hits, and the leader acts like Trump is doing (rightly so, he is not seizing federal power in a way most prior presidents have done) people become restive, critical, and hostile. IT IS VERY HARD TO DO THE RIGHT THING WHEN PEOPLE ARE EXPECTING YOU TO SAVE THEM. You see your power ebbing and your popularity falling. So you have good people folding (Abbott in TX is an example). Men are weak, fallible, and corruptible. They sometimes seize power and issue edicts not out of a lust for imperial dictates, but out of fear of being deposed. They have to "do something" because that is what we elected them to do.

Thus, masks.

This principle is why I am libertarian and REJECT leaders to save me. There is an among some libertarians which basis this on a rationalistic, secular principle of "I am my own boss..... completely. I look to no "gods" nor churches nor anything other than ME to define my rights and thinking"... usually followed by some vision of a brave soul on a hilltop with a drawn sword quoting "Invictus" (I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul) blah blah blah. This is actually pishposh and VERY shallow silliness masquerading as serious thought. What a materialist is REALLY saying is "a chance collection of swirling atoms is randomly causing chaoitic endorphins in my brain to secrete chemicals which appear to cause certain emotions in a hairless biped burped out of a dead universe whose actions and existence are as irrational as a snail fart. those emotions are silly and random, but appear to cause feelings of independence, bravery, and courage.... if such things actually exist."

Libertarianism can only rationally exist when there is a foundation for individual liberty, or a basis for it. I can have the courage to face the potential death of a silent, deadly plague and my own possible death without frantically running to symbolic and meaningless gestures because some "leaders" tell me to do so, because I am the slave of no MAN, not of no ONE. To be the kind of autonomous independent entity some rationalists attribute to libertarianism destroys the very basis for liberty because such a thing by definition cannot exist. I am a biomechanical set of impulses with no "me" down there, ultimately, and Invictus is bullsh*t.

It is a crazy world we live in.

Peace to all.
 
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Reporting will go to the Department of Health and Human Services rather than being sent to the CDC to be entered and then sent to HHS. CDC falls under HHS. The goal is to automate the process. Right now each case with over 100 data points is manually entered. The Dept. Of HHS is taking the process so they can change over to automatically uploading the data hospitals currently collect rather than reentering it into 4 different reporting systems. White House will get data from HHS.
No data will be "removed" from the CDC. It is not like they are setting up some prefiltering outfit to determine what CDC sees. They are removing exclusive editorial control from CDC, and allowing other elements within the gov to make the data more "open source" if you will
 
Reporting will go to the Department of Health and Human Services rather than being sent to the CDC to be entered and then sent to HHS. CDC falls under HHS. The goal is to automate the process. Right now each case with over 100 data points is manually entered. The Dept. Of HHS is taking the process so they can change over to automatically uploading the data hospitals currently collect rather than reentering it into 4 different reporting systems. White House will get data from HHS.

Yeah, I trust everyone in DC to tell us the truth.

Anyone have a bridge I can buy with the money I got from the Nigerian prince??
 
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