Fitting a fingerless barrel bushing to a Series 70 Colt barrel?

[Charlie]

Is there anything special that needs to be done to fit a regular fingerless barrel bushing to a Series 70 Colt barrel? I have never had any problems with my Series 70 Colt pistols and have several spare collet bushings but wonder whether you would fit a fingerless bushing to a S70 barrel the same way you would fit one to barrels that were not designed for the collet bushing.

 

[indie_rocker]

I honestly read that at first and thought it said fiberglass barrel bushing. I was stunned at such a thing.

That's all, I can't read.

 

[Bahamadon]

I honestly read that at first and thought it said fiberglass barrel bushing. I was stunned at such a thing.

That's all, I can't read.

Don't feel bad , my brain read the same thing also.

 

[BatteryOaksBilly]

Is there anything special that needs to be done to fit a regular fingerless barrel bushing to a Series 70 Colt barrel? I have never had any problems with my Series 70 Colt pistols and have several spare collet bushings but wonder whether you would fit a fingerless bushing to a S70 barrel the same way you would fit one to barrels that were not designed for the collet bushing.

Why do you want to change???

 

[Charlie]

Why do you want to change???

I do not really have any desire at this time to change since the pistols work well and since I have spares. The solid bushings seem to be preferred these days, and I am just curious about whether a solid bushings could be fitted to a Series 70 barrel fairly easily in the unlikely event of the need arising.

 

[BatteryOaksBilly]

I do not really have any desire at this time to change since the pistols work well and since I have spares. The solid bushings seem to be preferred these days, and I am just curious about whether a solid bushings could be fitted to a Series 70 barrel fairly easily in the unlikely event of the need arising.

I see...Charlie, I have seen exactly 2 barrel bushings "break"....one was colleted finger on an Armand Swenson gun and the other was a solid NM numbered bushing. So..yes it can happen. The guns that I have with Finger Bushings have never given me a seconds problem, just like yours. I can tell yo that Donkey's Years ago Old Charlie Petty that wrote for American Handgunner did some research on the Finger bushings AND on 1 piece guide rods....One improved things and the other was found to be useless....The Colleted Bushing when installed on stock Pre 70 guns improved the groups in a Ransom Rest....the other Turd was deemed useless.

 

[GymB]

I don’t think so. @John Travis would know.

I’m trying to understand how the fingers would improve groups vs a solid bushing given hand fitting. The fingers provide tension against the barrel on all sides, putting it in the same spot each time, but the tension is modest and firing a round must cause it to move a bit. Apparently it worked, but has largely been abandoned.

 

[Charlie]

I am not a big fan of one piece guide rods and generally replace them.

 

[wvsig]

I do not really have any desire at this time to change since the pistols work well and since I have spares. The solid bushings seem to be preferred these days, and I am just curious about whether a solid bushings could be fitted to a Series 70 barrel fairly easily in the unlikely event of the need arising.

Yes a proper 1911 smith can fit a solid bushing or you can get one from EGW. Most of the collets were broken due to improper removal of the bushing and they did not always run reliability or improve accuracy . IIRC. It goes to what I was saying earlier that consistency was not Colts strong suit in the 1970s or 1980s.

I believe @John Travis stated this:

When the collets were right, they worked pretty well...when they didn't, the problems could range from bad functional reliability to breakage of one of the fingers. I've seen three that broke, and they locked the gun up solid. One was so bad, that had to drill the slidestop off to get it apart. All three guns had damage to barrel, slide and frame, and on the one that I had to drill, the damage was bad. Colt stopped using those bushings for a reason.

Another point is that the collet bushing may or may not improve your accuracy, or improve it only a little. It depends on the vertical lock at the rear of the barrel...the lugs' fit in the slide, and the fit between the barrel hood and slide.

If you want to see if a tighter bushing will help without compromising reliability or risking damaging the gun, I'd give George Smith a call at EGW,(Evolution Gun Works) and give him your slide ID and barrel OD measurements. He can custom-turn one of their excellent angle-bored bushings that will fit your slide and barrel correctly. You'll need to let him know whether you want a wrench-turn fit or finger-tight fit in the slide. You can find EGW on the web by doing a search.

 

[BatteryOaksBilly]

I am not a big fan of one piece guide rods and generally replace them.

Did one for a Shooter Sunday.

 

[Charlie]

I don’t think so. @John Travis would know.

I’m trying to understand how the fingers would improve groups vs a solid bushing given hand fitting. The fingers provide tension against the barrel on all sides, putting it in the same spot each time, but the tension is modest and firing a round must cause it to move a bit. Apparently it worked, but has largely been abandoned.

I think that the barrel has a bulge near the end that spreads the fingers out a bit to contact the slide more firmly as the slide closes. I do know that pushing the slide back a bit loosens up the barrel and bushing so the bushing can be removed easily. As mentioned above, the breakage problem may have been caused by people using a bushing wrench to remove the bushing without pushing the slide back a bit to relieve the tension.

 

[GymB]

“One piece guide rod” = “full length guide rod”?

 

[Charlie]

“One piece guide rod” = “full length guide rod”?

Sorry. That is what I meant but not what I wrote. I prefer the GI length guide rods.

 

[John Travis]

Due to the length of the enlarged portion at the muzzle, you really shouldn't try to tightly fit a solid bushing to a Series 70 barrel. You can use a "loose" or ordnance spec bushing...usually. The reason is...due to the length of the "bulge" the barrel may not drop in time for the upper barrel lugs to get clear of the slide. Damage to both barrel and slide lugs can result.

The collett bushing fingers did break on occasion, and the reason was simple. The owners used a wrench to turn the bushings with the slide in full battery instead of backing the slide up a half inch and turning the bushings easily. Those fingers weren't designed to take rotational forces. Had those owners consistently read and adhered to the instructions in the owners' manual, Colt would possibly or maybe probably still be using the system.

With the only exception that I'm aware of being the OEM Norinco barrels, all modern 1911 barrels have an enlarged portion near the muzzle that is shorter than the old Series 70 Accurizer barrel. That allows for more closely fitted bushings while still allowing for linkdown clearance.

The Series 70 system was actually a pretty ingenious design and it worked well. As the "bulge" entered the bushing, it forced the ringers into tight contact in the slide bore AND gripped the barrel tightly., giving similar results of a closely fitted bushing. In those pistols that also had adequate fit vertically at the rear of the barrel, they'd often deliver near match-grade accuracy right out of the box, averging sub 2-inch groups at 50 yards from the bags with good ammo. One in particular tyhat I handled shot into just over an inch with handloaded 200 grain SWCs.

 

[baltimoreed]

When I did my NM pistol build I used an oversized NM stamped bbl bushing and fit it to the bbl and slide and lapped the slide to the frame. Also did a full length guide rod as it seemed a better idea in a accurized 1911 as opposed to a loosey goosey GI 1911.

 

[Charlie]

Due to the length of the enlarged portion at the muzzle, you really shouldn't try to tightly fit a solid bushing to a Series 70 barrel. You can use a "loose" or ordnance spec bushing...usually. The reason is...due to the length of the "bulge" the barrel may not drop in time for the upper barrel lugs to get clear of the slide. Damage to both barrel and slide lugs can result.

The collett bushing fingers did break on occasion, and the reason was simple. The owners used a wrench to turn the bushings with the slide in full battery instead of backing the slide up a half inch and turning the bushings easily. Those fingers weren't designed to take rotational forces. Had those owners consistently read and adhered to the instructions in the owners' manual, Colt would possibly or maybe probably still be using the system.

With the only exception that I'm aware of being the OEM Norinco barrels, all modern 1911 barrels have an enlarged portion near the muzzle that is shorter than the old Series 70 Accurizer barrel. That allows for more closely fitted bushings while still allowing for linkdown clearance.

The Series 70 system was actually a pretty ingenious design and it worked well. As the "bulge" entered the bushing, it forced the ringers into tight contact in the slide bore AND gripped the barrel tightly., giving similar results of a closely fitted bushing. In those pistols that also had adequate fit vertically at the rear of the barrel, they'd often deliver near match-grade accuracy right out of the box, averging sub 2-inch groups at 50 yards from the bags with good ammo. One in particular tyhat I handled shot into just over an inch with handloaded 200 grain SWCs.

Thanks for the information. I have not broken a finger in 45 years of shooting a Series 70 and have a half dozen spares if I ever do. I should be good to go without ever having to fit a solid bushing.

 

[Notacop]

I ain't got no problem with my solid bushing on my series 70. The stupid one had a finger break off once though.

 

[Notacop]

Thanks for the information. I have not broken a finger in 45 years of shooting a Series 70 and have a half dozen spares if I ever do. I should be good to go without ever having to fit a solid bushing.

I broke one off and I think it had a lot to do with it being an ultra tight fitting gold cup national match

 

[John Travis]

Also did a full length guide rod as it seemed a better idea in a accurized 1911 as opposed to a loosey goosey GI 1911.

The guide rod doesn't contact the barrel, so it has no effect on accuracy.

 

[baltimoreed]

It does control the recoil spring so that it compresses and expands the exact same way each time as opposed to a standard unsupported recoil spring. Neither spring has any effect on the bbl at full lockup but a supported spring system might make for a more consistent cycling of the slide, ejection and feeding.

 

[Charlie]

I prefer the GI setup mainly because they are usually easier to disassemble than are the full-length guide rods. I do have one 5" Kimber that has a one piece full length rod that is easy to disassemble. I have not yet replaced it. The spring in the GI setup seems to be supported by the guide rod in the back and by the plug in the front for most of the distance of the slide travel. The front of the guide rod and the back of the plug are a bit less than one inch apart with the slide forward, and the slide can move a bit less than two inches to the rear. Both types seem to shoot just fine for me. I will take easy over difficult if both give about the same results to me. Perhaps I am just not a good enough shooter to be able to tell any difference.

 

[GymB]

I find that the full length guide rod neither provides enough benefit to install them in the guns that don’t have them nor cause sufficient problems to remove them from the guns that already have them.

Do have one gun with a proprietary captured spring setup, it’s a pain to clean so I don’t shoot it much. Too lazy to sell it.

 

[John Travis]

t does control the recoil spring so that it compresses and expands the exact same way each time as opposed to a standard unsupported recoil spring.

Nope. The spring compresses and expands the same way regardless. It can't deflect or "kink" with the standard guide rod. There's nowhere for it to go except straight. John Browning wasn't an idiot.

With the pistol assembled and the slide in battery, the spring only has 5 or 6 unsupported coils in a space of about a half inch. By the time the slide moves a half inch, half the spring is supported on the ID by the guide and the other half on its OD by the plug At full slide travel, the spring is completely encapsulated, OD and ID supported by both.

Enlarge this photo and study it closely. Here, the slide has moved roughly .075 inch.

 

[baltimoreed]

See what you mean. Guess a full length guide is only a little extra weight under the bbl but I’m not going to remove it from my build.

 

[BatteryOaksBilly]

Do have one gun with a proprietary captured spring setup, it’s a pain to clean so I don’t shoot it much. Too lazy to sell it.

Hey Jim...ifin ya ain't too lazy to change it out I'll send ya a new "standard" one. I gotta sack full, I change out every one I touch.

 

[John Travis]

I broke one off and I think it had a lot to do with it being an ultra tight fitting gold cup national match

Did you use a wrenh to turn the bushing with the slide in battery...or did you back the slide up a half inch before you tried to turn the bushing? If you turned the bushing with a wrench, that's why it broke.

 

[GymB]

Hey Jim...ifin ya ain't too lazy to change it out I'll send ya a new "standard" one. I gotta sack full, I change out every one I touch.

Thanks! I’ll take you up on that when I come down, first gotta take it apart and see if it’s even possible.

 

[Charlie]

Some may not be familiar with the collet bushing. Pictured are three collet bushings and one solid bushing.