FL Leg. Passes Bill to Prevent Left (Passing) Lane “cruisers”
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There is such a thing as going fast enough to be inherently dangerous, but that's almost always on residential streets or on roads where traffic is crossing or turning in. Highways are a different thing altogether. Regardless, it's law enforcement's job to enforce, not private citizens'.
I submit my recent thread where I was on 421 in the right lane doing roughly 70 in a 65 mph zone. Car to my left corner was going to play the I’m going to stick you behind a slow truck and make you get behind me game, I sped up, ~300hp with turbo. In seconds I was at ~90mph, got around them and pulled back to the right and slowed down to 70. Who was the danger?
If you started the speeding up still in the right behind the truck, I hope you had enough room where you weren't at risk of rear ending the truck if its driver had to brake for any reason. He is an innocent party to what you're describing.
Otherwise, what you did was probably fine from what it sounds like. If the guy was trying to speed up in your blind spot after you had already put your left turn signal on to signal your lane change, he is the a-hole.
Otherwise, what you did was probably fine from what it sounds like. If the guy was trying to speed up in your blind spot after you had already put your left turn signal on to signal your lane change, he is the a-hole.
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He (she) was riding on my left corner. They sped up and pulled beside me. I sped up, they did the same and pulled beside me. It was pretty clear they were trying to play games.
After I shot ahead of them, got around the truck, pulled back to the right and slowed down, (s)he hot past me at 80+ miles per hour.
I’m pretty sure I put an a-hole in their place.
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Ehhhhh. As someone who drives a commercial truck I can categorically say your sample size is limited (which is a polite way of saying you’re wrong lol).
People camp on the left lane all the time. It’s some sort of herd mentality is the only explanation I have. They would rather ride in a group than ride in a line.
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I don’t think you quite understand. They are not going to add more lanes. Using the current 2 lanes, the left lane is for passing and the right for normal traffic. If it’s a 3 lane highway then the left lane for passing, right 2 lanes for normal traffic. And so on. No one said anything about making the roads wider.
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Duuuuuuude. They'll drive right next to a truck for miles as if pacing them intentionally.
Herd mentality - Wikipedia
"Researchers at Leeds University performed a group experiment in which volunteers were told to randomly walk around a large hall without talking to each other. A select few were then given more detailed instructions on where to walk. The scientists discovered that people end up blindly following one or two instructed people who appear to know where they are going. The results of this experiment showed that it only takes 5% of confident looking and instructed people to influence the direction of the other 95% of people in the crowd, and the 200 volunteers did this without even realizing it."
Flash your lights, I’ll move over. But, typically the passer gets past me, then slows down, especially if he sees a Super Trooper’s blue lights across the median.
Laws, Laws and more Laws never fix Stoopid. 80% of the drivers are idjits. The 20% who have a clue have already passed you by, or took a bus, train or Uber.
But, as has been witnessed more often, especially in Commiefornia, Road Rage is the perfect fix for those who cannot figure out how to drive👨🏽🦼🤬
Laws, Laws and more Laws never fix Stoopid. 80% of the drivers are idjits. The 20% who have a clue have already passed you by, or took a bus, train or Uber.
But, as has been witnessed more often, especially in Commiefornia, Road Rage is the perfect fix for those who cannot figure out how to drive👨🏽🦼🤬
If I'm not mistaken, I believe one of the folks being dogpiled works/worked for/with NC-DMV. Not sure if that will help his cause here though.
I work in and around Charlotte all day. I watch ghetto-ass hoodrats with expired temp tags cut off police near daily, all with zero consequence. There are a ton of ways to improve traffic conditions, but I just don't see more laws that are selectively enforced (on those folks that the highwaymen/police know will pay up) being one of them.
I've about reached a point that I believe if somebody can't furnish a friggin' W2, they really don't deserve a damn driver's license.
I work in and around Charlotte all day. I watch ghetto-ass hoodrats with expired temp tags cut off police near daily, all with zero consequence. There are a ton of ways to improve traffic conditions, but I just don't see more laws that are selectively enforced (on those folks that the highwaymen/police know will pay up) being one of them.
I've about reached a point that I believe if somebody can't furnish a friggin' W2, they really don't deserve a damn driver's license.
W2? Some can't even furnish a Social Security card or a green card! NC gives driver licenses to illegals instead of deporting them!
It is already NC state law...
The title of the thread, legislation to prevent. I submit that that laws only prevent things in the minds of idiot legislators.
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Why do you assume that I’m one of these bandits?
What if I’m doing the speed limit or more in the left lane and will move over if I see traffic coming (if I can).
What now?
Am I illegal now?
Am I still this infuriating “part of the problem?”
Where the hell is this “problem” you guys speak of?
Sure there’s a slow poke every once in a while on the highway. Does that need a law to make them illegal?
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I’m saying the pavement that’s on the ground was put there for capacity. There’s X amount of vehicles that need to move on that highway and each lane has a certain capacity. Without full use of both lanes the capacity is not met.
So let me see if I understand some of the thinking on this. You want a law the makes people move over to the right lane if they are in the left lane already going over the speed limit so you can camp out(yes I said it) in the left lane going 20 miles per hour over the speed limit and do so unimpeded by those who are only creating a problem because you have a need for speed.
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Exactly. A practical rule that keeps the left lane not exclusive for passing only.
What else do we preach and wine about on this forum all the time? Enforce rules that are already on the books. Don’t pile on new ones.
the problem is people that hang out in the left hand lane (it doesn’t matter how fast or slow you are going) if someone wants to drive faster than you you shouldn’t be in the left lane. This isn’t meant to offend anyone , but it’s my opinion that too many people (maybe not you) drive in the left lane at or slightly over the speed limit. When someone wants to pass those people they look in the rear view mirror and mutter “I’m already going 5 mph over what do you want” and proceed not to move over
I have driven in all the 50 States of this grand place we call the USA. Sometimes in passenger vehicles some in Semi.trucks. 1. Common sense is NOT common. 2. Very few people understand the concept of what the blinking lights on the corners of the vehicle are for, turn signals for the non common sense people.3 If another vehicle comes up behind you and your in the left lane move to the right and let them pass, I don't care if your already doing 30 over. Last but not least, get off the dern phone, I could go on and on.
I notice that nobody who actually drives (or has driven) professionally has taken the side of the people who think it should be okay and legal to just camp in the left lane, not passing anyone. Gee, I wonder why that is.
You're not the police. Whether other people are exceeding the speed limit on the highway is none of your business.
If you aren't in the left lane, then neither you, nor the speeder, will cause each other any problems. If you are in the process of passing in the left, and a speed demon comes up behind you, it is wrong and unsafe for him to tailgate you (failure to maintain a safe distance). With that said, it is your responsibility to move right at the first safe opportunity in order to allow him to pass.
The "but both lanes should be used to capacity" argument is nonsense. You know how that works out? Both lanes get immediately jammed up by the slowest common denominator, and then there are miles and miles of road ahead that aren't being used in any capacity, the entire time. Meanwhile, people are constantly playing dangerous games of chicken with their accelerating and braking to try to get around the fool who thinks the left lane is a perfect place to cruise.
You're not the police. Whether other people are exceeding the speed limit on the highway is none of your business.
If you aren't in the left lane, then neither you, nor the speeder, will cause each other any problems. If you are in the process of passing in the left, and a speed demon comes up behind you, it is wrong and unsafe for him to tailgate you (failure to maintain a safe distance). With that said, it is your responsibility to move right at the first safe opportunity in order to allow him to pass.
The "but both lanes should be used to capacity" argument is nonsense. You know how that works out? Both lanes get immediately jammed up by the slowest common denominator, and then there are miles and miles of road ahead that aren't being used in any capacity, the entire time. Meanwhile, people are constantly playing dangerous games of chicken with their accelerating and braking to try to get around the fool who thinks the left lane is a perfect place to cruise.
I know, I know, it's Vox, which is run by commies. But the moving diagrams are good to illustrate the issue. Do your best to ignore the effeminate millennial "accents" and pay attention to the substance.
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Planet Earth, both NC, SC, and others.
Your job is to allow them if they want to break the law, unless you're a LEO. In that case, do your job.
There's no "attempted" in traffic laws. That's part of the freedom thing.
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9outof10mms
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We’re obviously never going to align on the premise of passing lanes and full use of the highway. So I’ll leave some numbers to back up my capacity claims. Not a Vox video made to represent only one side of the discussion.
From the NCDOT Highway Capacity Manual, for a level of service D which is regarded as “functioning” and/or acceptable:
Let’s use I77 between exits 4 and 5 in south Charlotte. Piedmont area, 3 lanes, guesstimate 20% truck traffic. Each direction of the highway should be able to handle 86,500 vehicles per day.
The latest traffic counts for that area show approximately 80,000 vehicles per day in each direction.
Back to the capacity chart, effectively dropping a lane because it’s “illegal” to use it unless you’re passing makes the highway function as a two lane. Max capacity is 57,200 vehicles per day.
This would push the highway into a level of service below a “D.” Probably E or F which is extremely poor. Increased wrecks, increased travel times, decreased quality of life for users, all around suck.
Before one makes knee jerk reactions about left lane bandits and wants laws upon laws, let’s think things through a little more critically. The above example leads to demands for more lanes and more roadwork. At a cost of billions (last estimate to widen that portion of I77 was in the several billion dollar range). That’s not attainable nor sustainable. This makes NCDOT look at options like toll roads and public private partnerships. No one likes those ideas which makes people hate DOT and life in general.
All because we want to keep a personal express lane coveted and protected.
The better answer here is driver education and enforcement of laws on the books (sounds familiar).
At the same time, some of you could use a good dose of CBD oil to chill the heck out and put the vein back in your forehead when someone presents an idea contrary to your belief. No need to go to level nuclear because someone doesn’t agree with your idea (not law) of how the road should be used.
From the NCDOT Highway Capacity Manual, for a level of service D which is regarded as “functioning” and/or acceptable:
Let’s use I77 between exits 4 and 5 in south Charlotte. Piedmont area, 3 lanes, guesstimate 20% truck traffic. Each direction of the highway should be able to handle 86,500 vehicles per day.
The latest traffic counts for that area show approximately 80,000 vehicles per day in each direction.
Back to the capacity chart, effectively dropping a lane because it’s “illegal” to use it unless you’re passing makes the highway function as a two lane. Max capacity is 57,200 vehicles per day.
This would push the highway into a level of service below a “D.” Probably E or F which is extremely poor. Increased wrecks, increased travel times, decreased quality of life for users, all around suck.
Before one makes knee jerk reactions about left lane bandits and wants laws upon laws, let’s think things through a little more critically. The above example leads to demands for more lanes and more roadwork. At a cost of billions (last estimate to widen that portion of I77 was in the several billion dollar range). That’s not attainable nor sustainable. This makes NCDOT look at options like toll roads and public private partnerships. No one likes those ideas which makes people hate DOT and life in general.
All because we want to keep a personal express lane coveted and protected.
The better answer here is driver education and enforcement of laws on the books (sounds familiar).
At the same time, some of you could use a good dose of CBD oil to chill the heck out and put the vein back in your forehead when someone presents an idea contrary to your belief. No need to go to level nuclear because someone doesn’t agree with your idea (not law) of how the road should be used.
Your premise (that reserving the left lane for passing results in more asphalt going "unused", and requires additional lanes to be built) is simply incorrect. Either way, the total number of cars occupying square footage on the asphalt is the same. The question is for what duration of time do they occupy the asphalt, and are they moving about the asphalt in a way that is likely to cause wrecks (which, aside from incurring a human and financial toll, increase the amount of time spent on the road by drivers stuck behind said wrecks).
The physical matter of which the cars are comprised doesn't disappear in either scenario. However, cars are able to get where they are going more quickly and safely if the left lane is reserved for passing, which means that each car spends less time occupying the highway on average. This improves traffic flow and reduces the need for more lanes to be built.
You're painting a picture in which the right lane is packed with cars nuts to butts going 40mph while the left is empty except for two guys going 90mph, as if nobody in the right lane would want to go faster and pass. If they want to do it correctly, they put their blinker on, wait for an opening in the left, and then pass in the left until (A) they're either stuck behind traffic in the left, because all the lanes are being fully utilized or (B) they are finished passing and get back to the right. This is the most efficient use of the asphalt.
What is not efficient is mobile roadblocks caused by a single driver impeding the left lane and refusing to pass. Not only is there open road for a mile in front of them, but there is much more dangerous maneuvering occurring around them.
There are only three possible reasons for being stuck behind a car in the left lane on a major highway:
1) the person in front is currently passing and is about to get back to the right at the next available opportunity
2) the person in front cannot pass because there is a person in front of them
3) the person in front is a moron who just feels like driving in the left and refuses to allow others to safely pass (this person gets a ticket under the law)
A valid concern would be making sure the law is worded in a way that clearly doesn't penalize people in the left who physically cannot safely pass, due to the conditions in front of them.
The physical matter of which the cars are comprised doesn't disappear in either scenario. However, cars are able to get where they are going more quickly and safely if the left lane is reserved for passing, which means that each car spends less time occupying the highway on average. This improves traffic flow and reduces the need for more lanes to be built.
You're painting a picture in which the right lane is packed with cars nuts to butts going 40mph while the left is empty except for two guys going 90mph, as if nobody in the right lane would want to go faster and pass. If they want to do it correctly, they put their blinker on, wait for an opening in the left, and then pass in the left until (A) they're either stuck behind traffic in the left, because all the lanes are being fully utilized or (B) they are finished passing and get back to the right. This is the most efficient use of the asphalt.
What is not efficient is mobile roadblocks caused by a single driver impeding the left lane and refusing to pass. Not only is there open road for a mile in front of them, but there is much more dangerous maneuvering occurring around them.
There are only three possible reasons for being stuck behind a car in the left lane on a major highway:
1) the person in front is currently passing and is about to get back to the right at the next available opportunity
2) the person in front cannot pass because there is a person in front of them
3) the person in front is a moron who just feels like driving in the left and refuses to allow others to safely pass (this person gets a ticket under the law)
A valid concern would be making sure the law is worded in a way that clearly doesn't penalize people in the left who physically cannot safely pass, due to the conditions in front of them.
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Legislation is only the first step. Enforcement needs to happen for anything to change.
I have driven over a quarter million miles on I95 over the past 10 years, so I completely understand the frustration of campers in the left lane. However, this law is problematic as many have pointed out because it enables LEOs to cite a driver for camping out even when driving at the maximum published speed limit. Example (on a 70mph highway): vehicle in middle lane is doing 70 and adjacent vehicle in left lane is doing 70, so the left lane vehicle is legally obligated to move to the middle lane. Okay, now the left lane is open, but no one can legally use it because the middle lane traffic is moving at max speed limit, thereby reducing aggregated lane capacity.
I’m not a fan of more laws, but an analysis of vehicles per day only makes sense to a government worker who doesn’t drive during rush hour. If the lanes are indeed for capacity, then the analysis should consider peak volume, not average volume for a 24 hour period. Also, any analysis must consider average speed, as capacity is directly affected by speed. Average speed might actually be the better metric for evaluating capacity.
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Those capacity numbers are derived from a rather involved process that does in fact include the things you mention.
Traffic analysis and design has a lot of voodoo involved. At the end of the day, you have to put something on paper to work with. The numbers you see there are the best foot forward that results from decades of trying to get it right. Every once in a while there are revisions and refinements made.
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When you over complicate a law with if’s and’s and but’s it becomes ineffective. Cops will get tired of seeing tickets being thrown out of court and they won’t cite for it any more.
So as proposed, these “stay out of the left lane” laws do exactly what I described. They shut down the left lane in terms of considering it for capacity. It’s a huge “if”, but “if” everyone was following the law, the left lane would essentially be useless for capacity.
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Fair, I figured that was the case…but not until after I’d posted and then went to lunch.
But, the analysis must make assumptions about efficiency of drivers and I think we’d all like to see driver quality improvements as a way to increase roadway capacity and reduce costs…of course that’s a pipe dream for a community that can’t figure out 4-way stops, roundabouts and merging.
Quick tangent, does anyone know if commercial trucks have automatic braking? I got into a pickle a couple days ago and the way out was to change lanes in front of a tractor trailer by maybe 15’. We were traveling the same speed, if anything I was going a touch faster, but I heard his brakes behind me and he flashed his headlights to express his love. Did the truck do it, or did he choose to brake? Don’t blame him if he did, I’m sure folks cut them off and brake all the time.
I will join you in temporarily ignoring the reality that a majority of people on a major highway speed to some extent.
Even in your world where nobody could possibly exceed the limit by 1mph, then how would your hypothetical situation be a problem?
If the middle lane is doing 70 already, then its occupants are going as fast as humanly/legally possible, correct? So what does it matter about the left lane being pass only?
If the left is reserved for passing, then either those extra drivers from your hypothetical 70mph left lane have room in the middle lane to also do 70, or they don't, because the middle lane would be too crowded, and the middle lane speed would drop below 70, which means they could now legally pass in the left without violating the sacred speed limit.
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Nobody has said don’t drive in the lane - what people have said is get over and let a vehicle behind you pass on by. Then you can resume driving in the left lane until the next person who what’s to drive faster comes along. It’s common sense. Look sometimes I want to drive faster but sometimes someone else wants to drive even faster than I do- you know what I do ? I reach up and click that little arm that makes the blinky light flash and I get over to let them get on their way. After they pass I slide back over.
The signs you see as you go down every multi lane highway across the country that read , Keep Right Except to Pass are telling you something.
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Except that’s exactly what the legislation and the majority of everyone here has said.