Francis Scott Key bridge in Baltimore taken out by a cargo ship last night.

When you wake up and realize you have to find a detour around a bridge for the next several years

IMG_5332.jpeg
 
Amazingly, it is not a diesel electric ship, like a locomotive... instead the fixed pitch propeller on it's single shaft is coupled to the diesel main engine. That's pretty low tech propulsion for a ship built in 2015.
Those Wartsilas run at around 60 RPM as I recall.

Edit: biggest made redlines at 102. 7600 hp per cylinder, 14 cyl 2 stroke turbodiesel. 38" bore.
One of the highest bsfc engines ever made.

 
Last edited:
Those Wartsilas run at around 60 RPM as I recall.
Yup... Wiki says 82.5 RPM and 22 knots. 😲

a 9-cylinder MAN-B&W 9S90ME-C9.2

It looks to me like this engine is designed to drive the propeller shaft directly, without reduction gears. I don't know how they clutch it out, or if they can. It is reversed by the electronic engine controls stopping the engine and starting it turning in the opposite direction. It is specifically made for container ships, to take up the least room possible.
 
Last edited:
Interesting perspective from another site:

"I'm a harbor pilot in Texas.
While it is not a normal thing for a ship to "black out", it does happen. The causes could be endless.
In my 20 years of working on ships all over the world, I can easily think of half a dozen black outs that I've experienced first-hand. Every one of them was caused by a multitude of things.

The most common systems that cause blackouts are the fuel and exhaust systems. These ships are constantly getting new green policy after new green policy thrown at them because they are big easy targets for environmentalists. I get it. These policies include, but are not limited to, running only low-sulphur diesel fuel, which is cleaner but much less efficient. And there are more and more filters and sensors on the systems these days due to green policies, as well as additional scrubbers and urea systems to keep the exhaust clean. All of which are more potential points for problems and failures. If something isn't running right, it can cause a black-out. The International Maritime Organization has recently required engine power and shaft limiters to be in place to reduce engine speeds and thus reduce emissions. These limiters can be mechanical, or software based. They are supposed to be removed for pilotage, that's a topic we are currently working through nation-wide. Some shipping companies are not allowing their vessels to remove the limiters, even for pilotage in congested waters for fear of being fined. Anyway, there are so many moving parts that all need to be working and communicating correctly to move these ships.

When the main engine (plant) goes down on a cargo ship like Dhali, power is lost across the entire vessel. Lights, pumps, motors, fans, A/C, heat, steering gear, everything is lost. An emergency generator is supposed to automatically kick on (tested and ran weekly) and provide power to what we always called the E-bus. That bus panel is normally powered by the main generator(s) but is the only one connected to the E-gen. It will only have special "emergency" equipment like the fire pumps and other fire suppression systems, a couple ballast pumps and ballast valve controls, some lighting, and steering gear. I would imagine that when the ship went black, the plant was lost, less than a minute later the lights coming back on might have just been the E-gen coming on and powering that specific bus. It was not until the big puff of black smoke rolls out that they got an engine order. Probably astern based on seeing the vessel yaw more to starboard and from listening to the news reports. The yaw to stbd is what a standard right-handed propeller will do when working astern.


This is all terrible for the loss of people and the families of those lost. It's terrible for the ship crew and pilots too who are going to be answering questions and maybe feeling blame. Hopefully there was no human error. Nothing directly at the exact lead up to the incident at least. I think the pilots did everything they could, who, remember, are really only there for guidance and local knowledge of the waterway. The captain is always in charge of the vessel and the crew, even when pilots are on board. The pilot(s) did an amazing job alerting the MD transportation and got the bridge traffic shut down as fast as possible. That call undoubtedly saved lives.

One thing that puzzles me is why they made a Mayday call. That's for when you are in distress, sinking and need help. As if THEY were about to die. An alert should have been made with a Pan Pan call or maybe even just a Securite to alert other traffic. Not asking for emergency assistance. Here I am monday morning quarterbacking.

One thing that always bugs me around a maritime incident is all the jack holes that start coming out of the woodwork saying their dad had a 30' sport fisher or they themselves have a 6-pack captain license to give guided pleasure boat trips so think they know all things maritime now.

I ruled out terrorism in my own mind right away because I just don't think 01:30 would have been their plan. They would have acted during rush hour. For the ship handling point of view this happened at the worst possible time and place along their transit. But it happened at the best possible time of day to reduce the injury and death toll. If there is a silver lining, that's it."
 
Interesting perspective from another site:

"I'm a harbor pilot in Texas.
While it is not a normal thing for a ship to "black out", it does happen. The causes could be endless.
In my 20 years of working on ships all over the world, I can easily think of half a dozen black outs that I've experienced first-hand. Every one of them was caused by a multitude of things.

The most common systems that cause blackouts are the fuel and exhaust systems. These ships are constantly getting new green policy after new green policy thrown at them because they are big easy targets for environmentalists. I get it. These policies include, but are not limited to, running only low-sulphur diesel fuel, which is cleaner but much less efficient. And there are more and more filters and sensors on the systems these days due to green policies, as well as additional scrubbers and urea systems to keep the exhaust clean. All of which are more potential points for problems and failures. If something isn't running right, it can cause a black-out. The International Maritime Organization has recently required engine power and shaft limiters to be in place to reduce engine speeds and thus reduce emissions. These limiters can be mechanical, or software based. They are supposed to be removed for pilotage, that's a topic we are currently working through nation-wide. Some shipping companies are not allowing their vessels to remove the limiters, even for pilotage in congested waters for fear of being fined. Anyway, there are so many moving parts that all need to be working and communicating correctly to move these ships.

When the main engine (plant) goes down on a cargo ship like Dhali, power is lost across the entire vessel. Lights, pumps, motors, fans, A/C, heat, steering gear, everything is lost. An emergency generator is supposed to automatically kick on (tested and ran weekly) and provide power to what we always called the E-bus. That bus panel is normally powered by the main generator(s) but is the only one connected to the E-gen. It will only have special "emergency" equipment like the fire pumps and other fire suppression systems, a couple ballast pumps and ballast valve controls, some lighting, and steering gear. I would imagine that when the ship went black, the plant was lost, less than a minute later the lights coming back on might have just been the E-gen coming on and powering that specific bus. It was not until the big puff of black smoke rolls out that they got an engine order. Probably astern based on seeing the vessel yaw more to starboard and from listening to the news reports. The yaw to stbd is what a standard right-handed propeller will do when working astern.


This is all terrible for the loss of people and the families of those lost. It's terrible for the ship crew and pilots too who are going to be answering questions and maybe feeling blame. Hopefully there was no human error. Nothing directly at the exact lead up to the incident at least. I think the pilots did everything they could, who, remember, are really only there for guidance and local knowledge of the waterway. The captain is always in charge of the vessel and the crew, even when pilots are on board. The pilot(s) did an amazing job alerting the MD transportation and got the bridge traffic shut down as fast as possible. That call undoubtedly saved lives.

One thing that puzzles me is why they made a Mayday call. That's for when you are in distress, sinking and need help. As if THEY were about to die. An alert should have been made with a Pan Pan call or maybe even just a Securite to alert other traffic. Not asking for emergency assistance. Here I am monday morning quarterbacking.

One thing that always bugs me around a maritime incident is all the jack holes that start coming out of the woodwork saying their dad had a 30' sport fisher or they themselves have a 6-pack captain license to give guided pleasure boat trips so think they know all things maritime now.

I ruled out terrorism in my own mind right away because I just don't think 01:30 would have been their plan. They would have acted during rush hour. For the ship handling point of view this happened at the worst possible time and place along their transit. But it happened at the best possible time of day to reduce the injury and death toll. If there is a silver lining, that's it."
Thank you for posting. Seems like a logical argument from a knowledgeable person. In my humble opinion, it was not an accident. Nor was it a terrorist attack. I believe it was negligence that led to this horrible incident. It’s already been said in this thread so I won’t repeat everything. Large transportation companies do everything they can to cut cost. And the first thing that usually goes is vehicle or in this case ship maintenance.

Everyone who has or had a diesel engine knows the importance of maintaining and servicing the engine regularly. It doesn’t take a lot for fuel filters to get clogged by inorganic and organic debris. Fuel filters aren’t the only thing on a diesel engine that needs replacing. But they are one of those things that can work fine until it doesn’t. Meaning sometimes you don’t have a lot of notice that you’re about to have your engine shut down because it’s not getting enough fuel.

The lights going out and coming back on in my opinion was inline with my experiences with automatic backup generators. Takes a few moments to get them start up and get enough RPMs to power everything back on. Reports claim that the ship dropped anchor to try and stop. I do not know if this is true. But if they did drop anchor on one side and not the other or dropped one side and then the other a few moments after that alone will cause the ship to steer of course quickly. And changing direction under emergency backup power isn’t going to happen at the snap of the fingers.
 
Large transportation companies do everything they can to cut cost. And the first thing that usually goes is vehicle or in this case ship maintenance.
That’s the thing about safety issues in general. 99 times out of 100 you can get away with things, but that one time the results can be catastrophic.

Let’s assume it was negligence on the part of the owner / operator in an effort to make more profit. If they had to bear the costs associated with their negligence it would make any savings negligible to negative and hence not worth the risk. Unfortunately, it is all but guaranteed that we the common peasants will be paying for this, one way or another, not those responsible.
 
Some info from the "news" including some drone footage of the ship damage.



Better info from the WGOWS guy:
 
The Dali has four diesel generators for the electrical system separate from the main propulsion engine. Losing propulsion does not cause a blackout.
Maybe switching from on board to remote control caused a glitch.
 
If you want to see an oversight or negligence kill hundreds of people, check out Green Dot Aviation on YouTube.
 
Lot's of stuff that is known but cannot be said until a determination is made from the evidence collected.

My thoughts are as follows:
1. Heading out of Baltimore with Pilots - they know the channel.
2. Newest container ship as most were replaced by this class in 2015 - I remember, because there was a small supply-chain hiccup in 2015 (as well as Port Labor Negotiations)
3. Automated, Software Driven with Redundant systems on everything.
4. Many previous posters talk about the cascading event of small things going wrong and adding up - absolutely.
5. Can this ship be hacked/jacked by cyber -- Yes. Yes it can. Doesn't mean that it was. But, sped up in real time it looks like it was steered directly into the pylon. (Looks.... but no one knows yet)
6. Bad parts, bad maintenance? - Absolutely possible. 2022 each one of those containers were $24,000 a piece from Shanghai to LA; late mid-2023 the cost was less than $2500 -- That's a lot of incremental profit $.

Right now, I would not take anything off the table. Cyberjacking included. I do not think it was on-ship deliberate either - the Baltimore Pilots have families and pensions.

But, Freighter training is teaching bridge crews what to do in case of being cyber jacked as this new generation of ocean freighters are heavily connected.

So - right now.. it is a tragedy; NTSB probably has figured out what went wrong already, but they are pretty good at covering all the bases.

If it WAS cyber-jacked... My question is -- do you think we would ever be told that it was.?
 
If it were cyber-jacked we will only hear about it when they have something to gain by releasing it.

Just prior to introducing "CYBERPATRIOT" act and requiring unique login credentials to access the internet "for your safety"
 
Was Francis Scott Key racist? Why did they take down his bridge?
Slave owner.........;)

Key and slavery

Key purchased his first slave in 1800 or 1801 and owned six slaves in 1820.[29] He freed seven in the 1830s, and owned eight when he died.[9] One of his freed slaves continued to work for him for wages as his farm's foreman, supervising several slaves.[8] Key also represented several slaves seeking their freedom, as well as several slave-owners seeking return of their runaway slaves.[30][31] Key was one of the executors of John Randolph of Roanoke's will, which freed his 400 slaves, and Key fought to enforce the will for the next decade and to provide the freedmen and women with land to support themselves.[32]
 
Heard General Michael Flynn in an interview yesterday. He calls it a black swan event. In the “for whatever it’s worth” category.
 
Last edited:
I don't see how two tugs could have stopped the ship, pushed it and slowed but not stop it at the time of power failure.
One tug astern would be more effective than dropping an anchor. If P factor on the reversing propeller is what caused them to veer hard to starboard, a tug pulling hard astern could have kept them straighter, such that they might have missed the bridge support. At about 8 knots, following on a stern hawser is about all a tug could do.

We used a small tug astern when towing a construction barge through the Tiverton bridge on Fall River in Massachusetts. The channel isn't straight where it goes under the bridge, but having the smaller tug back down hard kept the tow centered.
 
if this was an electric ship, this wouldn't have happened
don't we call electric ships "nuclear"?

edit - after reading the other posts... this is why i should read a whole thread instead of responding to 2day old posts...
 
Last edited:
Moving what? 6/7 knots in a harbor, maybe?
I don't think you could build a pylon or bumper that could stop that.
without the benefit of cars jumping the tracks and taking some of their energy lateral.
head on.
 
FBI puts new Special Agent in Charge in that area day before the accident, and within 24 hours he says it’s not terrorism. Without any time to do a thorough investigation. Seems legit.

Maybe our Federal Gov’t is just so incompetent everything looks like a conspiracy because sane people cannot fathom the depths to which we have sunk?
 
Fuel filters aren’t the only thing on a diesel engine that needs replacing. But they are one of those things that can work fine until it doesn’t. Meaning sometimes you don’t have a lot of notice that you’re about to have your engine shut down because it’s not getting enough fuel.
1711721179555.png
 
One tug astern would be more effective than dropping an anchor. If P factor on the reversing propeller is what caused them to veer hard to starboard, a tug pulling hard astern could have kept them straighter, such that they might have missed the bridge support. At about 8 knots, following on a stern hawser is about all a tug could do.

We used a small tug astern when towing a construction barge through the Tiverton bridge on Fall River in Massachusetts. The channel isn't straight where it goes under the bridge, but having the smaller tug back down hard kept the tow centered.

One of the articles on here talked about tugs, that the fast the ship is going the less effective the are, and that the ship's speed was about at max of what a tug could do.
 
I find myself thinking on this one a lot these days.

"Come a day there won’t be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all. This job goes south, there well may not be another. So here is us, on the raggedy edge. Don’t push me, and I won’t push you. Dong le ma?"
 
Back
Top Bottom