Georgia shooting of a black man

yard mongrel said:
My point being that a lot of folks with blase attitudes toward thievery haven't had to deal with a near total loss of livelihood that accompanies said act.

Would I kill a thief? Maybe not, but I sure as hell wouldn't chide somebody for making remarks about wanting to do so online because, like you, I understand how devastating it can be to lose one's means to support themselves. Being a student that has some schoolbooks and headphones lifted =/= being a tradesman having all of your tools and supplies stolen from a jobsite; I don't think a lot of folks realize that.

Again, my statements are an aside from this case entirely.
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What's just as interesting for me, is fewer know what it's like to be chased by a gang and cornered. Whether you're right or wrong, you are the enemy because of who you are and nothing is going to change it. And the feeling of desperation that goes with it. Alone, in a sea of hate.
 
Aubry committed no theft. Common to look around new home construction lots, I've done that in my neighborhood and nobody tried to kill me.
They chased him for five minutes, yes he did grab the shotgun, I would do the same if I was going to be killed, go down fighting like a Klingon.

Gregory McMichael, wielding a firearm, ordered Arbery to stop and threatened to “blow your #$&+ing head off.”

 
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georgel said:
The house video shows someone curious about the house construction, but not attempting to pick up tools or supplies. (From what I saw.)
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We were given pictures of him standing just inside a home, not taking anything...but were more displayed in court?

Like Button said just above this post Im making - he was curious about a house. Is that a crime? Maybe it is. If so, dangit, Ive broken laws before! We're going in circles here, and Im sorry for doing so. But I know (im certain) that I admitted early in this thread that Ive done the same - I think we get curious to see what it's like as it goes. Last summer me and the gf did the same to multiple houses in one afternoon walk. He was curious, too, and sure as hell didnt deserve to die over it.

Was grabbing for the gun safe/wise? I cant say, I wasnt there. But we know fight-or-flight kicks in and maybe AA thought his only chance was to dearm this guy. It didnt work out in the end, unfortunately, but he had a split second to react and maybe though running was not the right move, as the he sure as hell cant outrun a firearm.

The case is over now, good. We dont have to argue about it, bicker, what's done is done.
 
Oh, PS: a quick message for these three clowns.

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georgel said:
I've had $50,000 worth of equipment and furniture stolen out of a soon to be open coffee shop over two days, effectively cleaning it out. It had taken months of renovations to get to that point. Insurance was not yet in place, waiting on some administrate details. It was so heartbreaking I couldn't try again and gave it up. It was maddening when it happened and had I caught them in the act... They came back and took the A/C compressor unit a couple of months later. These people are like animals, feeding on anything they can find, without remorse.
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screw drivers and wrenches are weapons that they probably had. if you happened to be standing between them and the door...
 
Lessons learned, If someone breaks into your nieghbors home, cowry in your home and hope they don’t come to yours.
Unless your a Leo,, Police would have been justified in this shooting. This day and time it’s iffy to try to protect your or friends property or your own life.
 
georgel said:
What's just as interesting for me, is fewer know what it's like to be chased by a gang and cornered. Whether you're right or wrong, you are the enemy because of who you are and nothing is going to change it. And the feeling of desperation that goes with it. Alone, in a sea of hate.
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Y'all can't seem to get around the fact that I'm speaking outside of this case.

I stated my opinion of the situation on the first page, and a jury agreed with me.

But since we want to go there, I actually do know the feeling of being cornered by a gang and having to fight. I'll let y'all figure out the demographics of the situation.
 
I felt from the very beginning this was a bad shoot. I agree with the pent up aggression and frustration from being stolen from but thats still not a pass to execute someone in the street. That being said, I think Arbery should have turned and went out into the woods instead of grabbing the gun. A good run beats a bad stand anyday.
 
yard mongrel said:
Y'all can't seem to get around the fact that I'm speaking outside of this case.

I stated my opinion of the situation on the first page, and a jury agreed with me.

But since we want to go there, I actually do know the feeling of being cornered by a gang and having to fight. I'll let y'all figure out the demographics of the situation.
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I was sharing, not blaming. Wasn't aimed at you.
 
georgel said:
Not saying he was an innocent bystander, but I think he became the target of all the pent up hate and vexation.
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I think you just nailed it.

I also don’t think the dead guy is the saint some make him out to be, but that could also be my personal bias.
 
noway2 said:
I think you just nailed it.

I also don’t think the dead guy is the saint some make him out to be, but that could also be my personal bias.
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He had a history, but in this particular circumstance...

And if he had been allowed to escape, after bring pursued with guns, he might not have come back again. But, that's just a guess.
 
Majicmike said:
Lessons learned, If someone breaks into your nieghbors home, cowry in your home and hope they don’t come to yours.
Unless your a Leo,, Police would have been justified in this shooting. This day and time it’s iffy to try to protect your or friends property or your own life.
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Not true at all.

One must know the state law and how to act within it.

Read the attachment.

The crux of this whole case is one simple detail.

One can not pursue and claim self defense. Because when you pursue, you give up one of the elements of A.O.J. and that element is Jeopardy.

How can I feel danger of loss, harm, or failure when I am follow (someone or something) in order to catch or attack them?

It does not happen.

John
 

Attachments

  • GS_14-51.2.pdf
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pinkbunny said:


This guy has an interesting take. Personally, I think the father and son are guilty, and it's a lot more iffy on the guy filming.

This lawyer argues there's a procedural problem with the case, that could cause it to be overturned on appeal.
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This guy is intelligent and informative. The court decision was questionable at best.
 
georgel said:
What's just as interesting for me, is fewer know what it's like to be chased by a gang and cornered. Whether you're right or wrong, you are the enemy because of who you are and nothing is going to change it. And the feeling of desperation that goes with it. Alone, in a sea of hate.
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But he wasn’t cornered. He had an unlimited number of escape routes. He decided to fight over the shotgun.
 
JBoyette said:
Not true at all.

One must know the state law and how to act within it.

Read the attachment.

The crux of this whole case is one simple detail.

One can not pursue and claim self defense. Because when you pursue, you give up one of the elements of A.O.J. and that element is Jeopardy.

How can I feel danger of loss, harm, or failure when I am follow (someone or something) in order to catch or attack them?

It does not happen.

John
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They were just trying to detain the guys until the cops got there. We can argue whether that was right or wrong. When the guy charged the shooter he was acting in self defense. If they had any intent of shooting the guy he would have been dead earlier. Once again, stay in your house.
 
georgel said:
He had a history, but in this particular circumstance...

And if he had been allowed to escape, after bring pursued with guns, he might not have come back again. But, that's just a guess.
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What was his history, prior convictions? I, truly, dont know his backstory.
 
georgel said:
He had a history, but in this particular circumstance...

And if he had been allowed to escape, after bring pursued with guns, he might not have come back again. But, that's just a guess.
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Wasn’t this the same idiot that was parked on an electrical right of way or something and when approached by the cops went all ghetto-tude and claimed to be a famous rapper writing his poetry or was that someone else?
 
georgel said:
I've had $50,000 worth of equipment and furniture stolen out of a soon to be open coffee shop over two days, effectively cleaning it out. It had taken months of renovations to get to that point. Insurance was not yet in place, waiting on some administrate details. It was so heartbreaking I couldn't try again and gave it up. It was maddening when it happened and had I caught them in the act... They came back and took the A/C compressor unit a couple of months later. These people are like animals, feeding on anything they can find, without remorse.

While frustrating and maddening, in this GA case the guy had nothing and there was no evidence of him having anything. The house video shows someone curious about the house construction, but not attempting to pick up tools or supplies. (From what I saw.) Not saying he was an innocent bystander, but I think he became the target of all the pent up hate and vexation.

I completely understand the frustration and anger over things important to you being stolen. I also understand that we can loose our humanity become nothing more than animals, without or civility.

Just sayin'
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The law in Georgia says you only have to have suspicion that he committed a crime to preform a citizen’s arrest. He had been there several times and stuff went missing. He had no right being there. Sounds like a bunch of suspicion.
 
Tailhunter said:
The law in Georgia says you only have to have suspicion that he committed a crime to preform a citizen’s arrest. He had been there several times and stuff went missing. He had no right being there. Sounds like a bunch of suspicion.
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So, according to that video I posted, it's a two sentence clause. The case hinges on how you read it.
Sentence one says you can't make general citizens arrests without direct knowledge of a crime having been committed. Sentence two says if it's a felon fleeing, you only need probable cause, meaning you can use prior knowledge.

So, on that day, they didn't see him committing a crime, just on the property. However, in the past, they've seen him on video there at night, and a pistol went missing. So, they knew of felony burglary acts in the past, but not then.

If you read the clause as one thing, then since they didn't see him committing a crime then, it's not a valid citizens arrest. If you read those two sentences as two different things, the citizens arrest could be argued as valid, if you can argue they had prior knowledge(the video) and can articulate that to rising to the level of felony burglary. It's a very murky situation.
 
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I still look at it this away. Would a LEO be charged for murder in that case? IMHO, No and they would have had the Law of the Land if thier side and the most instinctive law if all in their side. Self preservation.
If they should have charged with anything maybe if illegally detaining him.
 
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I can see why this went the way it did. Whether or not the guy had a record wasn't known to the guys charged from what I read so that's not relevant. Chasing after somebody and cornering him is definitely a pretty aggressive move on their side and at that point claiming self defense gets pretty hard IMHO.
 
Majicmike said:
I still look at it this away. Would a LEO be charged for murder in that case? IMHO, No and they would have had the Law of the Land if thier side and the most instinctive law if all in their side. Self preservation.
If they should have charged with anything maybe if illegally detaining him.
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Theres a legal obligation to stop if it were a LEO stop. No legal obligation to stop for 3 guys in pickup trucks.
 
BlackGun said:
Two guys are guilty of murder. Third guy isn’t. He will get an appeal when this all cools down. He’s guilty of accessory.
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Thats basically what felony murder is. You didn't pull the trigger to kill the guy but he was killed in an underlying felony that you were a part of (false imprisonment and aggravated assault).
 
np307 said:
Thats basically what felony murder is. You didn't pull the trigger to kill the guy but he was killed in an underlying felony that you were a part of (false imprisonment and aggravated assault).
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I will agree if he assisted in corralling the deceased. But I never followed the trial so I don’t know the evidence. I was under the assumption he was just following and filming but never left the vehicle.
 
Majicmike said:
Not talking about the legitimacy of the stop. If the officer is charged does he have the right to defend himself?
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The legitimacy of the stop is the issue. If an officer is conducting a lawful stop and draws a gun on you appropriate to the use of force continuum and you charge him, then yes he is 100% justified in defending himself. If the officer is not conducting a lawful stop and draws a gun on you and and you charge him and get shot, the officer is guilty of the same thing they are.

Now whether he would get charged is another issue entirely. These three almost got off because of their friends in high places but their idiot lawyer released the video to the media so the state was able to step in and ensure prosecution.
 
Majicmike said:
Not talking about the legitimacy of the stop. If the officer is charged does he have the right to defend himself?
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when you point a shotgun at someone, you have committed an assault. Aubrey was the one with the legitimate claim of self defense in this scenario.
 
If I understand the charge of malice murder correctly (setting out with the intent to murder), then I disagree with that conviction. The other murder charges come from a death while committing a felony, so I see why they lead to convictions.

/not a lawyer
//did not watch any actual testimony
///did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express
 
Ferrisfan said:
If I understand the charge of malice murder correctly (setting out with the intent to murder), then I disagree with that conviction. The other murder charges come from a death while committing a felony, so I see why they lead to convictions.

/not a lawyer
//did not watch any actual testimony
///did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express
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Malice Murder doesn’t have a “setting out” component. As long as the action was committed with the express intent to cause death and at no reasonable provocation then it’s Malice Murder. I think you may be conflating the charge with Premeditated Murder which does have a history (edit: history of intent) component to it.
 
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The use of deadly force to protect your “stuff” can be debated.The whole concept of citizens arrest can be debated. The fact of what transpired in the events of that day can’t. There will be four families with an empty seat at the Thanksgiving table today and tomorrow and the next day and the next forever…all over what a man may or may not have done…the ripple effect of their actions will have impacts on loved ones yet to be seen…the totality of all that happened is truly sad for all parties involved…and it all changed with an event that can be measured in seconds. May God have mercy on all their souls..watching all of this unfold a saying my old man frequently imparted on me kept coming to mind-“smart people learn from their mistakes but the smartest people learn from other people’s mistakes”. Hopefully we all become geniuses from learning from their actions..just my $.02..
 
TrappyBoy said:
Malice Murder doesn’t have a “setting out” component. As long as the action was committed with the express intent to cause death and at no reasonable provocation then it’s Malice Murder. I think you may be conflating the charge with Premeditated Murder which does have a history (edit: history of intent) component to it.
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Gregory McMichael, wielding a firearm, ordered Arbery to stop and threatened to “blow your #$&+ing head off.”

Under the citizen's arrest law, an individual could detain someone they had seen committing a serious crime and if the suspect was trying to escape.
The state law, which dates back to the American Civil War era, was repealed in the wake of the incident.
 
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It's no surprise to me that the folks arguing that there's even a shred of legitimacy to the shooting...

1. didn't pay attention to the trial
and
2. are on the short list of folks to keep an eye on whenever there's a racially charged thread.
 
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