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[DuncanLempRIP]

Of your two examples I don't consider not killing viable children and knowing what bathroom you should use to be extreme.

I'm with you on those issues, but from a technical standpoint, a zero-exceptions abortion ban is outside of the majority opinion. However, look what DeSantis and the GOP got done in Florida. A 6-week ban in a state full of retired New Yorkers. So if you govern effectively and make a good case for your policies, you can push the envelope of conventional wisdom regarding public opinion, ultimately even helping to reshape public opinion in the right direction.

I'm confused as to what other issues @noway2 is saying Robinson is extreme on. No men in women's sports, bathrooms, and locker rooms, as well as no teachers grooming your kids in public schools, are extremely popular opinions in the real world, and especially in NC. School choice is popular just about everywhere. The second amendment is popular. Low taxes, budget surpluses, and the like are popular.

 

[Chuckman]

That was my point. Regardless of someone's personal views on abortion, Roe was a garbage, anti-constitution ruling, and anybody who believes in the Constitution must admit that. Anyone who thinks Roe shouldn't have been overturned quite literally doesn't believe in the constitutional republic that we are supposed to be sharing.

You have a point about unpopular opinions when it comes to debates within our state about abortion, but the spectrum of opinions is more nuanced than "abortion until birth" or "no abortion". I do not have the research pulled up, but there is majority support across the US for restrictions somewhere in the ballpark of 10-15 weeks, if I recall correctly. In a religious state like NC, I'm guessing we are at or even below the bottom end of that range.

Even the darling of the left Ginsburg said it barely passed SCOTUS muster the first time around and was not going to do so if seriously challenged because it was based on shaky legal principle.

Of your two examples I don't consider not killing viable children and knowing what bathroom you should use to be extreme. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. The problem with a lot of this is the choke hold of the media by the left. Gotta wonder how many people would agree with many of the conservative arguments, but the media refuses to give them time and spends the time slandering them as extremists. And then that choke hold does sway people that are conservative in funny ways. You see it here with Trump and people refusing to change a position that they based on an absolute lie because the media drummed it into their head.

And let's be entirely honest here. If the left actually gave a crap about Roe v Wade they would have worked to push it though legislation. The left needs to look in the mirror on that one. How many chances did they have? How many time did they try? Zero that I can think of nationally. They used Roe like they use race and class. To fan up the base and keep them riled up with absolutely not desire to "fix" any part of the issue. It's was too valuable to them broken and they were arrogant enough to think it really was untouchable. The right did what they said they would do. The left lied every step of the way about how important that it was too them. Again, would love to see that pushed more in the public space but the media gatekeeps anything that makes the left look bad anywhere they can.

I am surprised/not surprised that the left has not lobbied their states harder. They like using it as the boogeyman for the right on why republicans have taken their rights away when all they need to do is work locally and pass legislation. You are correct in that it is a tactic for many of their pet platforms because they need that anger and ire of victimhood to be successful.

 

[Chuckman]

I'm confused as to what other issues @noway2 is saying Robinson is extreme on. No men in women's sports, bathrooms, and locker rooms, as well as no teachers grooming your kids in public schools, are extremely popular opinions in the real world, and especially in NC. School choice is popular just about everywhere. The second amendment is popular. Low taxes, budget surpluses, and the like are popular.

It's because the Overton window changes what is the new 'normal.' Honestly, that window has changed far more radically for the left than the right, but here we are: a man can be a 13 year old girl, and that's normal. It is "extreme" to think otherwise.

 

[DuncanLempRIP]

I understand that communist media outlets are pushing that idea, but do you really think even close to a majority of people in NC believe that garbage?

 

[noway2]

@chiefjason

I'm with you on those issues, but from a technical standpoint, a zero-exceptions abortion ban is outside of the majority opinion. However, look what DeSantis and the GOP got done in Florida. A 6-week ban in a state full of retired New Yorkers. So if you govern effectively and make a good case for your policies, you can push the envelope of conventional wisdom regarding public opinion, ultimately even helping to reshape public opinion in the right direction.

This is kind of what I am getting at: if voting for team repugnant is only going to result in advancement of the so-con agenda and not other issues that I believe to be much more serious, then team repugnant isn't going to get my support.

I'm confused as to what other issues @noway2 is saying Robinson is extreme on. No men in women's sports, bathrooms, and locker rooms, as well as no teachers grooming your kids in public schools, are extremely popular opinions in the real world, and especially in NC. School choice is popular just about everywhere. The second amendment is popular. Low taxes, budget surpluses, and the like are popular.

I didn't say Robinson was extreme on other issues. I said that there are few areas where he has said much of anything about his platform. What I am trying to get at is that if he is going to win as governor, he's going to have to appeal to more than the "conservative" minority. Part of doing that is toning it down on matters that are going to turn off the moderates.

 

[noway2]

I understand that communist media outlets are pushing that idea, but do you really think even close to a majority of people in NC believe that garbage?

I do not, but there is also no real discussion, reason, or dialog. It's always reducto ad absurdum on both the right and the left.

 

[DuncanLempRIP]

What I am trying to get at is that if he is going to win as governor, he's going to have to appeal to more than the "conservative" minority. Part of doing that is toning it down on matters that are going to turn off the moderates.

What matters are you talking about, other than abortion? I am genuinely asking.

I don't think it's reducto ad absurdum or a strawman of any kind to say that the left is pushing the idea that you can choose your gender. It's just a fact that they are doing it, the same way it's a fact that you can't choose your gender. What they're saying is absurd on its own, no reductionism necessary.

 

[Walkabout Dan]

I did and these elections will tell if the vote decides anything.

 

[chiefjason]

@chiefjason

This is kind of what I am getting at: if voting for team repugnant is only going to result in advancement of the so-con agenda and not other issues that I believe to be much more serious, then team repugnant isn't going to get my support.

I didn't say Robinson was extreme on other issues. I said that there are few areas where he has said much of anything about his platform. What I am trying to get at is that if he is going to win as governor, he's going to have to appeal to more than the "conservative" minority. Part of doing that is toning it down on matters that are going to turn off the moderates.

Is anyone else seriously advancing your issues? Are they advancing worse issue with them? Do you use all the absurd, sarcastic, offhand language with them as well? It's part of the annoyance, turn off in your arguments. It's condescending, and seems intentional. Are you doing that to any other party? Maybe I missed that part.

And you tend to start your arguments in the middle and use that to your advantage.

And to be honest, the less conservative on the right you are the more unlikely you are to move the things you find important on that side. It's almost comical. But you seem to be willing to throw out the economic baby with the social bathwater. Because the Rinos tend to advance neither of them.

 

[DuncanLempRIP]

@noway2 If you're determined to keep using "team repugnant", then it sounds like your mind is already made up that they're inherently repugnant to what you believe, and therefore they shouldn't bother trying to "moderate" to appeal to people like you anyways.

I'm in favor of refusing to self-censor in the interest of appeasement, so that would be just fine by me. There's been far too much appeasement the last half century anyways.

 

[noway2]

What matters are you talking about, other than abortion? I am genuinely asking.

There are several issues. but, yes, abortion is a big one. Others include, gay marriage though it has been settled for now. Then there is the whole, "I identify as crap", the push to demonize whites, illegal immigration, the crap that is going on in the schools, etc. Those are all social issues. On several of them, I do agree, at least to an extent with "the right", but I also think the right is trying to go too far on some of them too.

I don't think it's reducto ad absurdum or a strawman of any kind to say that the left is pushing the idea that you can choose your gender. It's just a fact that they are doing it, the same way it's a fact that you can't choose your gender. What they're saying is absurd on its own, no reductionism necessary.

Of course it's absurd. I never said that it wasn't. It is as absurd as saying that there aren't people with gender dysphoria. Yes, the 'check chromosomes' argument does just that. Unfortunately, the issue has also gotten mired in with the heterosexual - homosexual spectrum and it is being done intentionally.

If you're determined to keep using "team repugnant", then it sounds like your mind is already made up that they're inherently repugnant

Yes, I think the republican party is repugnant, and while the democrat party is in many ways worse, at least they're honest about where they stand.

Is anyone else seriously advancing your issues?

Right now, the so called Freedom Caucus is probably the closest to it, as they're at least demanding some sense in terms of spending and holding the "rinos" accountable.

Are you doing that to any other party? Maybe I missed that part.

Let's just say that the things I have said about the other party have gotten me warnings, and I don't mean just here, so outside of certain circles, I have stopped saying much.

And with this, I think this dead horse has been fully flogged.

 

[DuncanLempRIP]

I have literally never heard anyone on the right try to argue that gender dysphoria isn't real. Talk about a strawman.

It's a mental illness that deserves actual treatment, not having society alter itself to exacerbate the delusion.