GRNC Constitutional Carry Bill?
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House Bill 189?
i think I this one got shelved because a sheriffs union complained
i think I this one got shelved because a sheriffs union complained
OP
Yeah I saw that one and don’t think it’s truly a “clean bill” I think it requires a class still for concealed carry which would NOT be true constitutional carry if I am correct in my assumptions.House Bill 189?
i think I this one got shelved because a sheriffs union complained
I guess GRNC supported this because a clean bill would all but put them out of business on things to campaign on. No offesne intended to GRNC by that statement
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Dale Gribble
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Had a bill last year that passed the NC House, but Phil Berger didn’t allow it to be voted on in the NC Senate.😡
You're kidding, right?
We would still have plenty of unconstitutional laws to fix here. "Duty to inform", a 0.0 blood alcohol limit for concealed carry, undue legal penalties tied to "no-carry" signs put up by private businesses, a total ban on carrying in parades and protests, a total ban on carrying at colleges and schools...
And there's other stuff that can be implemented in addition to getting rid of all the aforementioned garbage:
Laws mandating that publicly funded colleges allow carry on their campuses.
Abolish sales tax on guns, ammunition, gun safes, and training.
Entirely eliminate the fee for a carry permit (for those people still getting them for reciprocity and NICS bypass), and reduce the legal maximum issuance time to two weeks.
Laws preventing NC law enforcement from cooperating with ATF or any federal agency to enforce federal gun control.
Laws holding businesses with "no-carry" signs legally responsible for the physical safety/security of their patrons.
Put real gun education curriculum in the schools.
Prohibit NC and local governments from doing business with companies that discriminate against gun owners or the gun industry.
Ban counties/municipalities from preventing people from shooting on their own land, regardless of acreage, as long as there is a safe backstop.
Amend the NC constitution to include everything I've mentioned so it doesn't get changed if Dems get legislative control in the future.
GRNC only supports the current bill despite the practically unenforceable and untrackable nominal training requirement because the speaker said he wouldn't move the bill without one in there. Then, Berger in the Senate said he would not move the bill regardless, so it was stopped in the house.
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Even worse, he said he had felt they had done enough dealing with "people's 2nd amendment rights". Meaning he understands perfectly well that the North Carolina government is violating our constitutionally protected rights and is perfectly fine with that.
OP
So you do agree with me by admitting Paul and GRNC are pushing for approval of an “unclean” constitutional carry bill? I dont agree with anything that inhibits the rights of people to carry barring they haven’t done something themselves to cause that right to be revoked. Don’t get me wrong constitutional carry in any capacity is better than nothing, but we need to be pushing for an all out clean constitutional carry bill. If Berger and others don’t want to play…as Paul says often times they should expect a primary challenge
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Then you should be in favor of the bill. Right now, there is a major inhibition, which is the legal requirement to pay for and obtain a government permit to carry concealed. The bill transforms this major inhibition into a minor, almost nonexistent inhibition, which is saying to the officer "yes I am trained" when asked. There is no database of training included in the bill. It is token, meaningless language to get RINOs to vote along with the bill because they can say "it includes tRaInInG!"
Remember, as it stands now, essentially EVERY single Republican has to vote yes in order to override an inevitable Cooper veto.
If we get Mark Robinson in office for 2025, then I will be much more amenable to your "clean bill or nothing" stance, because we can afford to ignore the protestations of a dozen RINOs at that point. And of course I want Berger and his cronies to be primaried. But you work with what you've got. You don't get a first down on every play; sometimes, the choice is to take the five yards or get nothing. The bill moves us in the right direction and concedes nothing in the opposite direction. As someone who does not wish to be forced to shell out $100 for "training", I myself was against the bill until I understood that the training component was deliberately crafted to be unenforceable.
I would rather have them go after all the random 'gun free' places first and make sure those can't just randomly pop-up on a whim in the future otherwise any carry laws will quickly become useless. See... CA and NY and every other place that 'has' to issue now. Sure, here's your permit, not valid anywhere there is more than 1 person present. Have fun carrying nowhere with your new found privilege.
A very good point. Legal weight being given to a sign that any Karen can put in her store window is unacceptable and just as important of an issue. We need to get a Republican into the governor's mansion and get our state constitution amended to prevent those kind of "redefinitions" that are happening in the commie states from occurring here in the future. But that will also require primarying out a bunch of two-faced snakes in our legislature.
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When I got my PA non-resident permit, it was $20 and took 20 minutes. Good for 5 years. It was essentially the local sheriff doing a NICS check. You're not prohibited? Here's your permit.
OP
@DuncanLempRIP no I do support passing it but don’t say it’s true constitutional carry if you have to have training and other such limitations. Because then it is NOT truly constitutional carry. I guess I just don’t want this to be heralded as a win for Constitutional carry if it passes when in fact it is not a true clean carry bill. Sure it’s better than nothing I guess.
Oh I would call it permitless carry, definitely not constitutional carry.
@1075tech Unfortunately, to maintain maximum reciprocity with tougher states like Minnesota, the permit needs to have similar requirements like fingerprinting and live fire.
The ideal for NC would be full constitutional carry, an "EZ tier" permit that's both free and instantly issued after a NICS check (for some reciprocity), and an "enhanced" permit that's also free but includes the fingerprinting and live fire for maximum reciprocity.
@1075tech Unfortunately, to maintain maximum reciprocity with tougher states like Minnesota, the permit needs to have similar requirements like fingerprinting and live fire.
The ideal for NC would be full constitutional carry, an "EZ tier" permit that's both free and instantly issued after a NICS check (for some reciprocity), and an "enhanced" permit that's also free but includes the fingerprinting and live fire for maximum reciprocity.
I have long advocated for an enhanced permit that eliminates restrictions on things like schools. Effectively make it such that with it, you can legally carry anywhere the cops can.
Should such a permit be required? No, but I’d take it over the current position.
OP
Yeah I agree that would be an awesome thing to have. I am sure the cost to get one would be astronomical because you know the state would not want all of us to be equal to cops, nevermind the criminals don’t mind the laws and carry anywhere and everywhere now
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OP
@DuncanLempRIP I can see the argument about the live fire extended permit along more reciprocity even if I don’t agree with the reciprocity issue of such. I know we will never truly get total national reciprocity which would be really wonderful to see pass and eliminate the need for a tiered system of permissions even if it is a pipe dream
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Imagine how things would change if everyone was equal, drawing a paycheck from the crown didn't make you a full citizen. I suspect most gun laws would go away if they applied to everyone including LE and private security.
With all the gun laws no one will be breaking them. Then cops won't be needing their guns. 🙆
What?? You mean signs and laws don't stop criminal behavior??!!??? 🤷
What?? You mean signs and laws don't stop criminal behavior??!!??? 🤷
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That’s what I heard, a majority of NC Sheriff oppose it. I paid for my renewal on Jan 12 , 2024 and still have not received it. Wake Co Sheriff Willie Rowe is no different than Baker was, anti gun.House Bill 189?
i think I this one got shelved because a sheriffs union complained
Timfoilhat
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I've called this out before, but nobody really gave it attention. This bill doesn't require a database, but there was a big meeting in the recent past where new rules for instructors were being planned to require them to report every student they have in class. The instructors all seemed to think that was simply unnecessary paperwork, but I think the point of it was so the state could build a database of who might have a concealed gun for the day in the future when a permitless bill does pass.
Maybe but for once I think that the official explanation may actually have been honest, they did get some complaints about bad instructors and realized that they have absolutely no way to prove or disprove anything.
Never assume honesty on the part of Democrats. They are showing restraint because they do not hold a strong enough hand here in NC to do what they really want.
In places where they get unlimited power, they do things like propose 1000% taxes on guns and ammunition, and declare the entire state a gun-free zone. Their motives could not be more clear. Whatever makes it harder to own and use guns is what they're in favor of, and they will lie their asses off about their motives if it gets them closer to the end goal of total disarmament.
In places where they get unlimited power, they do things like propose 1000% taxes on guns and ammunition, and declare the entire state a gun-free zone. Their motives could not be more clear. Whatever makes it harder to own and use guns is what they're in favor of, and they will lie their asses off about their motives if it gets them closer to the end goal of total disarmament.
I have constitutional carry. It’s the second amendment.
Get caught carrying concealed in NC without a permit and let us know how that works out for you. The first time is a Class 2 misdemeanor and a Class H felony for a second or subsequent offense.
Sounds like your scared to stand up for your rights and fight to me.
If your implication is that acknowledging, and fighting for the repeal of, unconstitutional "laws" is somehow cowardly, then you may want to reevaluate your opinion.
Virtually nobody here disagrees with your view that the Constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms, including concealed carry. However, sitting out the fight to remove unconstitutional laws, belittling those who are engaged in that fight on your behalf, and saying "but muh Constitution" is hardly "standing and fighting".
Are you out there physically resisting tyrants with force? Are you openly defying the unconstitutional laws, getting arrested, and beating the tyrants in court? No? Then you're just as "scared" as anyone else, if not more so.
Ignoring the unconstitutional laws and hoping you don't get caught is not the same thing as standing and fighting. It's hiding. That in itself isn't something to necessarily be ashamed of, but doing that and then belittling people who are openly fighting for legislative progress most certainly is.
You might want to think about this. If they find out I had a gun somewhere they say it wasn’t supposed to be, them knowing is the least of my problems now. I’m glad enough that at least me and my family are still alive. It was worth anything I must face afterwards. Remember everything that has happened in history , started with one person.
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Preaching to the choir.
I'm not advocating against silent disobedience of unconstitutional "laws" in such situations. In fact, I would encourage it, since the Constitution is the highest law of the land and renders those "laws" null and void.
What I am saying is that there is no need to point out the absurdly obvious (that the second amendment protects our right to carry, which is currently being violated by the state) and then get hostile with people who point out that the state can and will impose real consequences on people who exercise their rights, regardless of how correct those people may be on the constitutional principles at play.
The only feasible, productive way forward at this juncture is to bring our state's laws into compliance with the US Constitution through the mechanisms available to us, IE the legislature.
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And when the legislature fails like it has in America today ?
Then power will naturally return to the states, which is really more like what was originally intended anyhow. So we should be focusing on getting our states in order. Constitutional boundaries around the federal government have been lost since the beginning of the 20th century (or, really, the 1860s).
That was tried in 1861 and the federal authorities said you will do as we say or we will kill you. The death of a government, of , by , and for the people.
And lessons were learned about stocking up on small arms and ammunition, as well as maintaining a manufacturing base.
In 1861, which side had greater availability of arms and manufacturing capacity? Which parts of the country do now?
In 1861, Lincoln had the backing of one of the most advanced and productive economies in the world to print currency and purchase the best arms and supplies. The South was a backwards economy built on cash-crop slavery. The North ended up doling out newfangled technology like revolvers to their guys while southerners could barely scrounge bullets to shoot out of their antique guns.
Now, it is the South which produces real goods, in addition to continuing its farming tradition, and commie states which produce relatively little of value in terms of tangible goods, regardless of what the wall street ticker says.
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Seems like guns and the right to defend yourself has been a fight since the Boston massacre. Look at the open attacks on guns and ammunition that have been successful in the last 60 years.
Tyrants always fear an armed populace. It’s just too bad that the armed populace isn’t willing to rise up and depose of the tyrants and instead effs around going to “court” in tyrant controlled areas where tyrant “courts” will uphold tyrants.
Getting our state in order wouldn't help much since concealed carry is forbidden by our state Constitution. We would have to amend it to fix this in our state.
Our State Constitution also forbids Perpetuities and monopolies and yet at the same time the state allows and in some cases grants monopolies to certain business just look at the power,phone,and natural gas company's.
Sec. 30. Militia and the right to bear arms.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.
Sec. 34. Perpetuities and monopolies.
Perpetuities and monopolies are contrary to the genius of a free state and shall not be allowed.
And just how are you fighting? Breaking the law and hoping you don't get caught isn't fighting in my book. What lawsuits have you filed or what bills have you tried to get passed? How many of the kings men have you killed to protect your rights? Why don't you show us how to fight for our rights and carry your non permitted concealed weapon in a school or court house or some other restricted place and get back to us about your rights after your arrested and charged with several different crimes.
My family has been fighting for this country since 1723. You are scared so stay on the porch.