Have we lost the basics??

ERE99

ERE99

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It seems most all of the shooting competitions nowadays are either"action" based in the case of pistol and 3gun and speed steel, or some sort of "tactical" long range rifle competition that regardless of how you spin it it's still shooting from a mechanically supported position. Then there's various benchrest and F class.

When's the last time you shot standing, sitting, kneeling, or prone with the only support being your body and possibly a heavy sling? Did your "sub moa" tack driver open up to a disappointing 10" @100yds?

Also,, when is the last time you shot without an optical sight of some sort?

Are we losing the fundamentals of rifle shooting to play sniper and operator on Saturday at the range? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy those matches, but when I mention trying to hit one of the gongs at my club with an offhand shot all I hear are giggles.

I'm just an old service/high power shooter wondering where basic skills went. Once upon a time I had my expenses paid and drew a paycheck to shoot matches, and taught many new shooters the basics. Getting back into HP the last couple of years and seeing the shrinking turnouts made me wonder where our sport is headed.

Hell they even allow scopes in HP now, LOL.

From the old days, the team I took to the Winston P Wilson matches in 1991……the 10 best M16 shooters in NC .... at the time anyway. 14991061_10210871549735343_1171801748009524354_o.jpg
 
This is why I'm looking forward to the appleseed event this upcoming weekend. Gonna be shooting a cz 452 with aperture sights. Not exactly competition, but still some positional shooting. Also look at the cmp sporter division, think it's still the most participated in cmp division.
 
I proposed a similar question not too long ago.
https://www.carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/do-you-ever-offhand-your-rifle.17582/

That 30.06 I talk about is a Mossberg Patriot. They're cheap. On sale with the ugly kryptec camo synthetic stock I bought the rifle and scope new and have about $360 in the gun.
It's stupid light, like 6 1/2 pounds. By all reasons it should be terrible to offhand but surprisingly it does pretty well at it. Yeah it jumps, but you hit where you were aiming.
I like offhanding the rifles it's fun.
 
If you talk to most snipers they tell you that the big scopes that are used now do not help as much as they hurt you. Nothing beets fundamentals, No gear will helps when the SHTF.
 
ERE99 said:
I'm dreading that day, but at 54 I know it's closer than it used to be.
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Hang on Brother, it may be a long time out. My exam last year the Doc said "There would be no reason for me to prescribe anything other than some $1 readers...still 20-20". I am The 70 year old Midget Legend.
 
A 2gun match I shot recently: I had to shoot sitting, kneeling, offhand, and weak hand offhand all on a single stage! Thankfully I didn’t have to shoot prone. Pretty close targets though.

3 gun had to shoot out to 400 out of a bus window once. Also often a roof top. Or a moving platform, car sunroof, etc.

Lots of different fundamental skills need to do all that. At least it seems like it to me haha. Not sure how you could lose skills and do well at 3 gun?
 
specops56 said:
I stopped shooting without optics when my eyes stopped focusing the front sight. And the target. And just about everything else. :(

Terry
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Yep, that's why I had to go from Aimpoint to ACOG, I'm getting old and blind.
 
When my shooting got a little off I thought it was because I had no illuminated front sight, so I had one put on. I STILL had problems focusing on the front sight and beyond. I finally went to an eye doctor and found out I had a macular hole. After surgery my sight is better but not 100%. Lucky it wasn't my dominant eye! Go to a doctor if your sight seems distorted. I'm back to shooting, "alright for a girl", and love to shoot my AK with iron sights at 25 yards as that's as far as the range goes. I'm not a spray and pray kinda girl...I want hits.
 
I would agree with the O.P.; I think we are missing out on basic fundamentals. Most of us grew up with open sights and limited optics. Now, a new weapon and you can throw high dollar scopes, red-dots, prisms and every reticle choice you could imagine.

I think that by getting into the fundamentals you become more aware of environmental effects on the bullets; how to position your firearm, how to move and drive the weapon etc.. Once you have a good foundation, the new optics and weapon choices will amplify your skills to a new level.

The reason I say this is with new shooters at the TSC match. Mostly our younger shooters who are starting out and a few older folks that are just getting into shooting in general. They find it hard to pick up the target in the scope and a hard time with body position on the various stages. It makes me think I will definitely change how I introduce new shooters to our sport.
 
VA_GENTLEMAN said:
I would agree with the O.P.; I think we are missing out on basic fundamentals. Most of us grew up with open sights and limited optics. Now, a new weapon and you can throw high dollar scopes, red-dots, prisms and every reticle choice you could imagine.

I think that by getting into the fundamentals you become more aware of environmental effects on the bullets; how to position your firearm, how to move and drive the weapon etc.. Once you have a good foundation, the new optics and weapon choices will amplify your skills to a new level.

The reason I say this is with new shooters at the TSC match. Mostly our younger shooters who are starting out and a few older folks that are just getting into shooting in general. They find it hard to pick up the target in the scope and a hard time with body position on the various stages. It makes me think I will definitely change how I introduce new shooters to our sport.
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I think we need to shoot at least the 50yd stage either standing , sitting, or kneeling... maybe prone.. without the bipods and leave the packs and contents in the truck. Just stroll up to the line with a rifle, sling, ammo, and the clothes you have on.
I've noticed a lot of competitors at the TSC matches wearing issue boots. Maybe they just like them, I dunno. Add a standing stage to the match and you'll quickly learn how a good pair of boots will actually help improve one's score.
 
ERE99 said:
I think we need to shoot at least the 50yd stage either standing , sitting, or kneeling... maybe prone.. without the bipods and leave the packs and contents in the truck. Just stroll up to the line with a rifle, sling, ammo, and the clothes you have on.
I've noticed a lot of competitors at the TSC matches wearing issue boots. Maybe they just like them, I dunno. Add a standing stage to the match and you'll quickly learn how a good pair of boots will actually help improve one's score.
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The boot thing is interesting, for the first time I wore my sneakers yesterday. I always wear my Danner's (and that is even out to dinner); and I swear it felt like I had no support or foundation.
 
VA_GENTLEMAN said:
The boot thing is interesting, for the first time I wore my sneakers yesterday. I always wear my Danner's (and that is even out to dinner); and I swear it felt like I had no support or foundation.
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Bingo. A pair of good, leather, high top boots laced tight can definitely help your scores.

The human bone structure works great for steady shooting. It's our joints and muscles that make us unsteady. A pair of good boots can almost eliminate ankle flex.
 
ERE99 said:
I'm dreading that day, but at 54 I know it's closer than it used to be.
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Multiple eye surgeries didn't help. I started out nearsighted for most of my life. Then I got RK surgery in the early 1990s. Over the years it wore off. Got my corneas scraped to smooth out some of the scarring from the RK. Got a lens replacement in my left eye due to cataracts. Now they say I'm far sighted but due to left over scarring from the RK I can't focus near or far! Can't resolve black on black sights or black sight on black bull.

Terry
 
That was how my Les Baer Stainless Stinger came stock. Black on black. I was use to that sight picture for quite some time by taking aim, moving my sight picture slightly to the white on the paper and quickly back. After my first round I had my mark to stay on. When my sight went it went fast so I had a front sight only put on. Keep at it to see what works for you. Now I have a front sight and all is good. Heck, I'm a 62 year old! hahaha I have to say, I appreciate all the rifle shooters out there using iron sights. After all, if the batteries go on those wonderful new scopes, you had better have the skills for iron sights. Yes I have used a very nice scope and it made me a beast on the range, but the fundamentals still have to be there.
 
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