Hornady Critical Defense now in brass instead of nickel cases

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Jayne said:
OK fine, but don't make it the same SKU on the box then, it's not the same product.
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We'll, they did identify the brass case on the label and the load is the same. They could have suffixed the product with a B or something similar, I suppose.

When Winchester outsourced their white box .223 for a while, the only way you could tell was a B on the end of the product number. Q3131A was Winchester, Q3131B was full power IMI.
 
georgel said:
We'll, they did identify the brass case on the label and the load is the same.
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which we can't see when ordering online because the part number is the same as is the description on web sites.

I doubt it's going to make a bit of difference in how it works, I'm just tired of companies changing things without changing names/numbers/etc. Maybe I'm just grumpy today, but it doesn't make me wrong.

I should pay them in USD, but by USD I mean some paper I printed up myself. Looks the same, just is slightly different. Supply chain issues don't ya know.
 
georgel said:
When Winchester outsourced their white box .223 for a while, the only way you could tell was a B on the end of the product number. Q3131A was Winchester, Q3131B was full power IMI.
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Really, now I have a project for tomorrow.
 
JimB said:
Really, now I have a project for tomorrow.
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I knew when I posted it, that people were going to be digging through their stash of white box. I used to keep it to myself and just keep an eye out for individuals selling white box .223 and ask for the suffix. But, its been a few years now since Winchester did that. They had some production issues and outsourced to IMI for a few months, maybe a year. I hear there are other variations like Q3131A1, which might be Korean, but haven't researched it.

Product codes are everything. In the infinite variations of Federal, who's notorious for rebranding existing product, I keep and eye out for a variation of XM193 in the product code. Anything with XM193xx should be a full power XM193 load, while the AE223 is a reduced commercial load. You can pick up different variations of the American Eagle line and find a mix of XM913xx or AE223 product codes, side by side on the shelf. Same look, different loadings. The black box AE loose is AE223, but the black box in stripper clips is XM193. Even in .22, I have 3 different Federal "models" that have the same 510 product code. Same 40gr solid load, different packaging. And then there's the Blazer .22 loose bulk pack, which is suspected to be Federal, while the traditional brick with the 50rd boxes, is actual Blazer. (My preferred round, by the way.)

So, a lot of this is going on in the background and most people don't notice or even care. But, those are some of my shopping secrets. Cause I notice and I care.
 
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OK, I may have my Winchester numbers a little mixed up, after re-looking at this. It may be that Q3131 no suffix is Winchester and Q3131A is IMI.

From 2016 - Q3131 is the U.S.-manufactured Winchester M193, but since 2000 (and coinciding with the transition at the Lake City plant which left it shut down), Winchester's M193/Q3131 ammo has all gone to the military. Due to the demand during the Y2K scare, Winchester had subcontracted some of its civilian M193 production to IMI. Winchester has continued this contract, and the IMI-produced ammo is labeled Q3131A by Winchester.
 
Well I doubt that I have any WWB as old as 2016, but I’ll look. Seems odd to me that Win would buy IMI production rather than having new production to their specifications. Maybe not worth it for IMI to retool.
 
Better practice your midnight chamber checks and keep an eye out for corrosion.
From Hornady's own website:

DEFENSE-CENTERED DESIGN​

Critical DefenseÂŽ ammunition was developed to provide the best performance for personal protection and is the ultimate choice for concealed carry firearms or self defense rifles. Bright nickel-plated cartridge cases ease chamber checks in reduced light, and low-flash propellants preserve night vision.

DEPENDABLE​

Nickel-plated cases resist corrosion and optimized propellants burn quickly to reduce recoil and limit muzzle flash, making Critical DefenseÂŽ dependable in every situation.
 
Well somebody was saying that their guns were oil fouling their ammo and that they needed to rotate/shoot their carry ammo every 3 months so I am guessing that is enough lube to keep the brass from corroding. Heck, might even be able to go full semi tactical with steel case...I think they are lacquer sealed and that will help with the oil too?!? Right?
 
Nickel is nice, but brass is better then nothing.

Not a good sign they are substituting though...
 
Hamilton said:
@georgel What about the 30rd AE red box on stripper clips?
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Have to look for a product code on the box. I haven't seen that product. Federal is so squirrelly with changing stuff, I don't think there is a fixed answer. If you're lucky buying online, they have a good photo of the box. One day, I stood at an ammo rack in a store looking at boxes and it was not readily predictable. Although, I would speculate that if it's in stripper clips, it's likely XM193.
 
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Hadoken said:
Better practice your midnight chamber checks and keep an eye out for corrosion.
From Hornady's own website:

DEFENSE-CENTERED DESIGN​

Critical DefenseÂŽ ammunition was developed to provide the best performance for personal protection and is the ultimate choice for concealed carry firearms or self defense rifles. Bright nickel-plated cartridge cases ease chamber checks in reduced light, and low-flash propellants preserve night vision.

DEPENDABLE​

Nickel-plated cases resist corrosion and optimized propellants burn quickly to reduce recoil and limit muzzle flash, making Critical DefenseÂŽ dependable in every situation.
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i guess if you're a SEAL doing night ops by the coast you're screwed.


Actually, low light/no light chamber checks are done by feel, not by sight. Partially retract the slide with the support hand and use your strong side index (trigger) finger to poke into the ejection port for a round, that is now partially extracted from the chamber. Of course, now the round is going to corrode where you touched the casing, sealing itself to the chamber wall, locking up the gun. 😜
 
They should be releasing it under the Zombie MAX label… that was just a Critical Defense bullet with a green polymer insert and brass case anyway. If brass cases were good enough to last until the Zombie apocalypse they should be fine for carry I would think.
 
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