Lead Poisoning Conerns
- Thread starter OldNascar
- Start date
- Replies 59
- Views 1,698
Wonderful reporting once again and any excuse to shut down gun ranges. Was the kid a regular at the range? What were the child's lead levels? Does the father reload? Pretty sure lead isn't radioactive and cant contaminate others around you to any meaningful degree.
The range was punished for firing him because he filed an OSHA report. No info on whether OSHA found improper lead safety precautions at the range?
Sounds like taking a free swing at gun users and ranges to me.
Sounds like taking a free swing at gun users and ranges to me.
Whats not talked about is how the lead transfer happened. It most likely happened in the washer machine. and not running the proper anti-lead post wash detergent, Now, with that typed, lead, mercury toxins are not from the bullet, its from the primers. within the first 10 feet from a fixed firing line is the most contaminated area of any range. If an indoor range places sticky pads within this area, this hazard is 90% mitigated. Outdoor ranges, the toxins are dispersed over a larger area and mixed with soil. Then transferred onto your footwear IF you walk in front of the firing line.
PPE for me is a set of clothing I always use at the range. I wear the same stuff every time. change at the range, place in a trash bag, shoes in a separate bag. Get home wash my clothing, after run the anti-lead wash detergent for a spin. Lastly, my range shoes stay in a plastic bag in the garage until the next range trip.
Oh, someone going to ask so here you go.
https://shop.actiontarget.com/content/esca-tech-d-lead-respirator-and-laundry-detergent.asp
PPE for me is a set of clothing I always use at the range. I wear the same stuff every time. change at the range, place in a trash bag, shoes in a separate bag. Get home wash my clothing, after run the anti-lead wash detergent for a spin. Lastly, my range shoes stay in a plastic bag in the garage until the next range trip.
Oh, someone going to ask so here you go.
https://shop.actiontarget.com/content/esca-tech-d-lead-respirator-and-laundry-detergent.asp
Last edited:
Good info JBoyette. Clearly immediate contact with the shooting range is not necessary to poison someone with lead. Your PPE percautions seem prudent and make sense. I assume you discard the trash bag after each use? I have also considered the contamination of the trunk of the car but when I look at the volume of my shooting I stopped caring as much. I am not in that environment on a daily.
I have always understood that indoor ranges are much more hazardous than outdoor ranges. A few years a ago I did some reading on this and there was not a lot of info about OSHA actually testing lead levels at ranges. IIRC I read something like 350 tests over 30 years. A fair amount of meaningful data also comes from the armed forces. To me the avg person shooting a few times a month is not in danger especially if you shoot outdoors.
Why do you think its BS? There is a real risk of lead exposure from shooting. If you work in a shooting range 40 hours a week it would be smart of you to take precautions. Also the range should have been sued because they terminated the employee for opening an inquiry with OSHA which is their right if they believe their work place safety was compromised.
To the larger danger of lead to recreational shooters I think it is minimal but that it still exists. Honestly I wonder how many people on this board who are regular shooters have ever hand their lead levels tested.
Last edited:
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
You're absolutely right. I think you should take your concerns to heart and stay away from shooting ranges.
So insightful. Why are you acting like a tool? No one is saying people should stop shooting. Don't get your panties in a wad.
In the example that the OP sighted the range was liable because they fired an employee out of retribution not cause.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
- Messages
- 1,989
For the once or twice a year shooter, there’s little risk factor.
if you go often, and esp if you have children, it’s important to take simple bulk-effective measures.
Once I joined a gun club I started shootig thousands of rounds per month. I made sure to (1) have dedicated shoes, (2) always wear gloves for shooting and loading and carrying steel plates, (3) undress in the garage.
After I join a club here in N.C. I will be adding lead detergent to my regiment.
these are my favorite range gloves. Thin and dexterous, they don’t impact my grip or even loading 22lr. I actually just purchased a new pair because started getting holes in some fingers—obviously defeating the purpose.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075P5TJ9Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image
if you go often, and esp if you have children, it’s important to take simple bulk-effective measures.
Once I joined a gun club I started shootig thousands of rounds per month. I made sure to (1) have dedicated shoes, (2) always wear gloves for shooting and loading and carrying steel plates, (3) undress in the garage.
After I join a club here in N.C. I will be adding lead detergent to my regiment.
these are my favorite range gloves. Thin and dexterous, they don’t impact my grip or even loading 22lr. I actually just purchased a new pair because started getting holes in some fingers—obviously defeating the purpose.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075P5TJ9Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image
In all of my life of over 55 years, I have never once heard of a shooter or even a worker at a shooting range getting lead poison. The guys melting lead should all be dead or at least mentally il...
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
- Messages
- 1,989
thats why biomedical science is not driven by anecdotes. Move beyond the case study represented only by your single life’s minuscule slice of the pie to epidemiological scale studies and you will have many examples.
9outof10mms
Enginerding, good coffee, and factual opinions.
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
Supporting Member
Multi-Factor Enabled
I thought lead poisoning causes blindness. No?
Ever been tested? You can have high levels without showing severe symptoms. Many of the less severe symptoms of lead poising in adults are not cognitive. Muscle and joint pain for example which are often attributed to something else.
The range I shoot at the most has heavy metal removing soaps and I always wash my hands before leaving. I also was my forearms if they are exposed. I don't do more than that. I don't think it is a bad idea to use the same shoes and wash range clothes in special soap. You are talking realistically less than $29 a year to help limit your exposure.
Last edited:
I would be curious to know if the defendants (the range) attorney investigated the housing of the children during their lifetimes. It seems highly unlikely that the father could transport enough lead home to harm the kids. Most likely they contracted the lead from a previous house where they lived.
How far did they live from a coal fired power plant? Did the children have any toys made in China?
There are a lot of environmental issues at play that may have not been factored into this.
All in all this was a hit piece that was thrown against the wall and it stuck.
Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
Long_Hunter
Sufficient Speed, Acceptable Drag
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Supporting Member
My worthless two zinc coated cents...with as much time as is spent on ranges, static and maneuver, it is an absolute miracle that every infantryman is not a complete and utter retarded imbecile by the end of their career from all the lead they have come into contact with...not to mention those of us who spent all those years living in barracks covered in layers of eternally flaking lead based paint
Don't let facts get in the way of your two cents.... LOL
https://www.military.com/daily-news...e-slowly-being-poisoned-lead-their-bones.html
https://academic.oup.com/milmed/article/181/9/1121/4159842
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Several studies have reported significant airborne lead exposures during training at indoor firing ranges. Scarce attention has been given to airborne lead exposures in outdoor shooting ranges with automatic weapons.
OBJECTIVE:
To assess the prevalence and magnitude of airborne and blood lead levels (BLL) among firing instructors and shooters in military outdoor ranges.
METHODS:
Exposure assessment, for both trainees and instructors, included airborne and BLL during basic and advanced training at outdoor firing ranges. Personal airborne samples were collected in both day and night shooting during both training periods.
RESULTS:
During basic training, there is 95% likelihood that up to 25% of instructors and 99% likelihood that up to 5% of trainees might be exposed above the action level (AL) (25 μg/m(3)). During advanced training, there is 90% likelihood that 10% of instructors and 99% likelihood that up to 10% of trainees might be exposed above the AL.
CONCLUSIONS:
Military personnel participating in automatic weapon marksmanship training can be exposed to considerable levels of airborne lead during outdoor firing range training. As a result, the Israel Defense Force Medical Corp has classified firing range instructors as workers that require periodic medical examinations.
I am not saying that people shouldn't continue shooting, reloading, melting etc... but to ignore that there is a risk does not make sense to me. There are risks associated to all sorts of activities and IMHO if you are going to engage in any activity it makes sense to educated yourself about the possible hazards. Every single topic surrounding shooting does not have to be turned into an attempt at a gun grab by the left.
Last edited:
Hey now, don't be grabbin' all that lead-related mental deficiency for yourselves! Leave some for us pre-1978 civilians who grew up chewing ABC blocks and licking windowsills in front of open windows that predated air conditioning! Especially us moronics who turned into carpenter-constructionists and remodeled our way through adolescence and beyond, demolishing & disconnecting lead plumbing, hammering lead flashing, and sanding, scraping, and trash-bagging real he-man paint residue immediately before wiping our grubby paws on our dusty pants to get that clean-as-possible grip on our ham sammiches.
We should get some droolin' idiocy awards, too!
I shoot quite a bit, cast lead Bullets and prepare a lot of ingots. I also reload.
Asked the Dr. to run a blood test for me out of curiosity. It was so low it didn’t even make the minimum standard.
I think their concerns are over inflated.
Maybe the dummy should have washed up before feeding his kids their chicken nuggets.
Asked the Dr. to run a blood test for me out of curiosity. It was so low it didn’t even make the minimum standard.
I think their concerns are over inflated.
Maybe the dummy should have washed up before feeding his kids their chicken nuggets.
Last edited:
That is good to hear. I think that like many health related issues the exposure and its effects on an individual is very subjective. I still think it was smart to add that test to your health panel for piece of mind.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Every year during my physical. Company pays for it. Blood tests are lower than the national and local averages. That means a cleaner and meaner peener
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
- Messages
- 1,989
its not that is subjective, it’s just highly multifactorial in real world setting. I know my blood will be low, as the poster above a despite being at an increased “risk” of exposure, because we mitigate that risk through very simple means such as “washing hands”, or “wearing protective gear”.
The risk, to my understanding, is fundamentally related to ingestion...so the more one protects against potential avenues of ingestion, the less likely.
Think about radon in homes. Houses with a radon mitigation system have even lower levels than houses that “don’t need one”. I would imagine many gun owners have lower lead if for no other reason than they’re cognizant of the invisible risk.
RedneckFur
Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace.
I've always had some concern about lead exposure at ranges, and how much of a risk it might pose.
I always wash my hands thoroughly after a range trip. I shoot only at an outdoor range, and I've never considered having dedicated range clothing or shoes. Definitely something to consider.
I've always heard that handling metallic lead was a lot less risky than the gasses and particles that happen when shooting. I'm a reloader, but I try to be more careful when handling cast lead bullets just in case.
I know that tumbling brass creates a lot of dust. I don't clean my brass as often as I once did, because I want to get a simple respirator to use when sifting my brass to minimize the dust I breathe.
I always wash my hands thoroughly after a range trip. I shoot only at an outdoor range, and I've never considered having dedicated range clothing or shoes. Definitely something to consider.
I've always heard that handling metallic lead was a lot less risky than the gasses and particles that happen when shooting. I'm a reloader, but I try to be more careful when handling cast lead bullets just in case.
I know that tumbling brass creates a lot of dust. I don't clean my brass as often as I once did, because I want to get a simple respirator to use when sifting my brass to minimize the dust I breathe.
I worked at a gun shop and range for 18 years. For a large chunk of the time I was the range guy, spent uncountable hours in the range with shooters. Ran the shooting matches weekly for several years, spent many hours sweeping the range at closing time, did a majority of the CWP live fire qualifications, and even raked the pit at least once a month. On top of that, while working there, I pretty much shot every day. After being in the range all day and sweeping and cleaning, we blew the dust off with the air compressor.
We had one idiot, who on the verge of getting fired, for being an idiot, decided to call OSHA to make a complaint about "lead poisoning". The range owner, out of his own pocket, paid to have all the employees checked, nobody had any detectable levels of lead in their system. The idiot that was getting fired had levels that were supposedly off the charts, and for the most part, spent less time on range than anyone else. I think he, and the idiots kids in the article, are eating too many paint chips.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
- Messages
- 1,989
I use dedicated shoes because I have 2 dogs and a 2 year old daughter. They spend a lot of their time laying, playing and rolling on carpet followed by licking of hands and paws etc.
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
OOOPS!
1. You must be exposed.
2. You must inhale lead or swallow it
3. The finer the particle the higher affects it has in harming you.
4. The older you get, the less affects hard metals have.
You can not give a damn, but I do. Its like god and hell, and Santa, you believe or not. But no one gives a damn about your beliefs but you
2. You must inhale lead or swallow it
3. The finer the particle the higher affects it has in harming you.
4. The older you get, the less affects hard metals have.
You can not give a damn, but I do. Its like god and hell, and Santa, you believe or not. But no one gives a damn about your beliefs but you
None of that matters in regards to the OP. That was a clear case where the employee was fired in retaliation for filing a report. They paid the settlement as a business decision because losing in court would have cost them more. They were fined because they wrongfully terminated an employee.
Moore's fiancée informed Robertson that their doctor already reported the elevated lead levels to the Orange County Health Department and that they had plans to cooperate with OSHA for an investigation.
At that point, the complaint stated that Robertson instructed Moore to tell Johnny Lwin, the gallery's owner, about his plans to contact the health department, adding that Moore would likely be fired.
Less than two weeks after OSHA visited the gallery, Robertson did fire Moore at Lwin's direction, according to the complaint.
Under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970, it is a federal offense to fire someone because they initiate a complaint with OSHA.
There is a reason that these ranges have such serious air handlers. I stopped by an indoor skeet/trap range in Georgia a few weeks ago and they only allow steel shot in the massive hanger sized building so they didn't have to put in such a large system. Really interesting to see an indoor shotgun area.
I really like the dedicated shoes idea. I am going to start doing that. My range has a sticky pad you walk over before you leave, I always be sure to step until my shoes don't leave a black print anymore. They change out the sticky matt daily and its always black.
I use the anti lead soap after all the way up my arms. Will start wearing gloves more regularly. Maybe I should start throwing some type of respiratory protection in the mix.
I really like the dedicated shoes idea. I am going to start doing that. My range has a sticky pad you walk over before you leave, I always be sure to step until my shoes don't leave a black print anymore. They change out the sticky matt daily and its always black.
I use the anti lead soap after all the way up my arms. Will start wearing gloves more regularly. Maybe I should start throwing some type of respiratory protection in the mix.
In elementary school I watched as dozens of fellow mouth breathing students chewed, sucked and licked their #2 lead pencils. I tried it, but didn't inhale.
In middle and high school we screwed around with the liquid mercury in lab cause pencil taste was boring.
Every kid I knew built airplane models and car models. Nitromethane, lots of various tolulenes, miscellaneous "thanes", dope etc.
In my teens and twenties I fondled more wheel weights balancing peoples new tires than the law allows. I was good at it, so I fondled at LOT of wheel weights in an era where no respectable mechanic wore...gloves !
At the same time I worked in a place that manufactured truck brake shoes.
If you've never arc-ed 4515D truck brake shoes, its basically taking a grinder to the massive asbestos brake linings to make them fit a given brake drum circumference.
But, not before cleaning the old brake shoes in a Wheelabrator shot peen cleaner with probably no ventilation. Hey, lead shot and asbestos ? No worries...OSHA wasnt a fixture yet.
Other stuff I wont detail. Lets just say not a safe place.
Lots of electrical work involving liquid flux and the old 60/40 lead solder, and wow those fumes smelled intoxicating.
Race cars, more lead, more asbestos, more heavy metals.
Welding galvanized steel ? Well, yeah, just be down-wind.
Then I started scuba diving, which involves massaging twenty to thirty pounds of lead onto a weight belt, then screwing around with said weight belt numerous times a day. For years, up till today and beyond. All this is in addition to any small amount of lead I may have been exposed to while shooting.
Don't get me wrong, lead poisoning is a real thing and each person reacts to whatever concentration of lead differently. But to put things into perspective, I think that despite all of this, I'm rileativellly nermahl fa semwon my ayyeege en ppl nud tue shill awtt un dis ladddd stoofff.
In middle and high school we screwed around with the liquid mercury in lab cause pencil taste was boring.
Every kid I knew built airplane models and car models. Nitromethane, lots of various tolulenes, miscellaneous "thanes", dope etc.
In my teens and twenties I fondled more wheel weights balancing peoples new tires than the law allows. I was good at it, so I fondled at LOT of wheel weights in an era where no respectable mechanic wore...gloves !
At the same time I worked in a place that manufactured truck brake shoes.
If you've never arc-ed 4515D truck brake shoes, its basically taking a grinder to the massive asbestos brake linings to make them fit a given brake drum circumference.
But, not before cleaning the old brake shoes in a Wheelabrator shot peen cleaner with probably no ventilation. Hey, lead shot and asbestos ? No worries...OSHA wasnt a fixture yet.
Other stuff I wont detail. Lets just say not a safe place.
Lots of electrical work involving liquid flux and the old 60/40 lead solder, and wow those fumes smelled intoxicating.
Race cars, more lead, more asbestos, more heavy metals.
Welding galvanized steel ? Well, yeah, just be down-wind.
Then I started scuba diving, which involves massaging twenty to thirty pounds of lead onto a weight belt, then screwing around with said weight belt numerous times a day. For years, up till today and beyond. All this is in addition to any small amount of lead I may have been exposed to while shooting.
Don't get me wrong, lead poisoning is a real thing and each person reacts to whatever concentration of lead differently. But to put things into perspective, I think that despite all of this, I'm rileativellly nermahl fa semwon my ayyeege en ppl nud tue shill awtt un dis ladddd stoofff.