Making a case collator and other stuff...

Sasquatch

Sasquatch

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I was explaining to my son that laziness is the mother of invention (supposedly it's necessity, but my case it's definitely I don't want my time wasted on something).

I over-do my case prep- especially for 'bulk' loading (223 for example). I anneal every firing. I clean, dry, deprime, anneal, lube, size, trim, chamfer, and clean again. Then it goes into an ammo can to be ready to load at any point.

Though I do have some efficiencies, such as sizing and trimming on my 550, using my Lee APP for depriming, and my Annealeze to anneal, there's a lot of me picking up cases and feeding them into the Lee APP tubes, or stacking in the annealer, and one-at-a-time putting them in the Dillon.

What I'm doing is going to build some automation, I'll probably do a blog post on it, but will show some of the steps here. I'm a big fan of 3d printing, and many things are available to download free of charge- such a bullet feeding die and a case collator. I've already printed the bullet die, but need to make a bullet collator, and since I was doing >1000 223 cases, I decided I'd make a case collator first.

Here's the case collator: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2868908

Just the printing of the parts has taken days- each wedge takes about 8 hours to print, so I've already invested days in just getting the parts printed. Secondly- there's no instructions- you have to figure it out from the pictures. I downloaded the Autodesk project he listed and even it is incomplete, but I can use some of it to make my own custom components later.

Here's where I am from having the parts printed:

1692040208622.jpeg

To be painfully obvious- this would be far easier to just buy the Hornday case feeder from (about $500), but I enjoy this kind of thing...

I'm farther along and will post some photos as I go.
 
Sasquatch said:
I was explaining to my son that laziness is the mother of invention (supposedly it's necessity, but my case it's definitely I don't want my time wasted on something).

I over-do my case prep- especially for 'bulk' loading (223 for example). I anneal every firing. I clean, dry, deprime, anneal, lube, size, trim, chamfer, and clean again. Then it goes into an ammo can to be ready to load at any point.

Though I do have some efficiencies, such as sizing and trimming on my 550, using my Lee APP for depriming, and my Annealeze to anneal, there's a lot of me picking up cases and feeding them into the Lee APP tubes, or stacking in the annealer, and one-at-a-time putting them in the Dillon.

What I'm doing is going to build some automation, I'll probably do a blog post on it, but will show some of the steps here. I'm a big fan of 3d printing, and many things are available to download free of charge- such a bullet feeding die and a case collator. I've already printed the bullet die, but need to make a bullet collator, and since I was doing >1000 223 cases, I decided I'd make a case collator first.

Here's the case collator: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2868908

Just the printing of the parts has taken days- each wedge takes about 8 hours to print, so I've already invested days in just getting the parts printed. Secondly- there's no instructions- you have to figure it out from the pictures. I downloaded the Autodesk project he listed and even it is incomplete, but I can use some of it to make my own custom components later.

Here's where I am from having the parts printed:

View attachment 657746

To be painfully obvious- this would be far easier to just buy the Hornday case feeder from (about $500), but I enjoy this kind of thing...

I'm farther along and will post some photos as I go.
Click to expand...
Interesting...looks good.
Theres a guy I asked about printing one for the APP..he "quoted me" $275... have the printer(s)
But...hours.. have been on the look out for used Case feeders, loading them tubes is a PIA..

-Snoopz
 
Snoopz said:
Interesting...looks good., loading them tubes is a PIA..
Click to expand...
Exactly! That's why I did it it. But printing time is huge on it- I don't blame the guy for wanting that much. Material-wise, it's not expensive, but it was over 120 hours of printing to do what showed above.

I'm going to look for a smaller case feeder to print next time- I don't need a huge hopper, I'm just tired of shaking the APP feed tray, or filling the tubes manually (which turned out to be faster than shaking).
 
That all sounds so familiar..shake the thing, fill them tubes, on the Stars old Phelps, CH Champions were tubes also. What a pain.

Just looking for something not crazy expensive, may just have to "suck it up" bring the printer(s) down from MD. The filament, everything. Gonna have to wait, gotta make room..

-Snoopz
 
The next bit is going to be figuring out how to mount it. I'm also unsure how to actually connnect the drop chute to the top of the Lee app. I see people use a big spring, so I'll have to look into that. Then I'll have to wire up some kind of sensor to turn the motor on and off- such as when there's a case already in the tube and it's full... optical or some other switch.
 
I’m curious to see how you hook it up to the APP. I want to do the same thing, but I’m thinking of buying the Dillon case feeder for my 550, and then figure out how to share it with my APP. Ultimately I’d like to rig a case feeder for my annealer, and automate it with servos and an Arduino controller.
 
That's my goal, to be able to use the same collator for annealer, app, and a case feeder for my (future) Lee 6000. My thought for the APP is to simply use the 'brake line spring' and just use a single feeding tube with an optical switch. That should work for a case feeder as well. Where is doesn't work is my annealer, which requires them horizontal instead of vertical. I'm still thinking about that one. Instead of arduino, I plan on using Raspberry Pi (I have a stack of them)- I'm already part of the way toward my automated (by weight) bullet and case sorter. I'm not happy with the accuracy of my 100g load cell, so that project is temporarily on hold.
 
It took a while. I printed it a while ago, but getting the motor mounted securely was painful because I didn't have experience with it. I tried a 3d-printed one and it failed everytime something got stuck. I had to reprint one of the disks of the platter since it warped on printing, but also got that done.

Ran it today and had it ghetto-attached (duct tape) to the Lee APP and cranked through several hundred cases to be deprimed. Worked great! I should use an optical switch when its full but I have an on/off on my powerstrip which I'm using if it gets jammed or I step away.

1704653538075.jpeg
 
Since annealing is my next step, need to figure out a way to feed cases to the Annealeze...
 
There is a whole thread on making a bullet/brass collator on the castboolits forum. They have links to stl files and instructions for collators (various sizes), collator plates, bullet feeder dies (which work great), and accessories for hooking up to various presses. Fantastic thread, over 300 pages and a wealth of information.
 
blewis3 said:
There is a whole thread on making a bullet/brass collator on the castboolits forum. They have links to stl files and instructions for collators (various sizes), collator plates, bullet feeder dies (which work great), and accessories for hooking up to various presses. Fantastic thread, over 300 pages and a wealth of information.
Click to expand...
That thread is about impossible to follow. Hundreds of pages don't mean content- lots of garbage mixed in. The closest I've found is the PDF manual one guy made. I've ordered parts for some of that- since I already have a collator I'll likely just use some of the connection pieces for my APP.

I have some ideas how to modify my Annealeze to auto-feed cases for it.

The gap that my son is wanting me to fix is for case chamfering- I use a station (Frankford) that has a inner/outer chamfer- but you have to hold the case which means your hands get tired after a few dozen. I haven't seen a solution for this, so I'm 3d designing a toolhead that will fit on my 550 using those bits from the Frankford.

1705681065660.jpeg
I need to find an case auto feeder for the 550 to speed up the chamfering once my toolhead is finished.
 
Sasquatch said:
That thread is about impossible to follow. Hundreds of pages don't mean content- lots of garbage mixed in. The closest I've found is the PDF manual one guy made. I've ordered parts for some of that- since I already have a collator I'll likely just use some of the connection pieces for my APP.

I have some ideas how to modify my Annealeze to auto-feed cases for it.

The gap that my son is wanting me to fix is for case chamfering- I use a station (Frankford) that has a inner/outer chamfer- but you have to hold the case which means your hands get tired after a few dozen. I haven't seen a solution for this, so I'm 3d designing a toolhead that will fit on my 550 using those bits from the Frankford.

View attachment 729265
I need to find a case auto feeder for the 550 to speed up the chamfering once my toolhead is finished.
Click to expand...
It is a long thread and follows the evolution of the 3d printed bullet feeder that was on thingivetse but was taken down due to a complaint from the Mr Bulletfeeder creator to the current design by TylerR. He has a page that is linked in his signature take has all the info needed to print the system including stl’s and a pdf manual (which I think is the one you have).
 
blewis3 said:
It is a long thread and follows the evolution of the 3d printed bullet feeder that was on thingivetse but was taken down due to a complaint from the Mr Bulletfeeder creator to the current design by TylerR. He has a page that is linked in his signature take has all the info needed to print the system including stl’s and a pdf manual (which I think is the one you have).
Click to expand...
Yes there's a GitHub project location with lots of options. Stls are easy enough to use, but I'd like some of the models to modify for the motors I use. The one he recommends and has the file for is overkill.

In any case I'm using the feed tubes from that project. It's a little too open in that I can figure out which size spring tubes I should use. I went to Mr bullet feeder to see he only has two which is what I tried to match instead of the 7 or so on the project. I ordered a bunch of stuff from Alibaba so it'll be a couple weeks before I start on that since it's literally the slow boat from China.

For my annealer the cases need to be loaded in sideways instead of stacked. I have in mind a feed wheel kind of what's on the annealer itself. I haven't figured out how to align them yet so it's case back.
 
Sasquatch said:
Yes there's a GitHub project location with lots of options. Stls are easy enough to use, but I'd like some of the models to modify for the motors I use. The one he recommends and has the file for is overkill.

In any case I'm using the feed tubes from that project. It's a little too open in that I can figure out which size spring tubes I should use. I went to Mr bullet feeder to see he only has two which is what I tried to match instead of the 7 or so on the project. I ordered a bunch of stuff from Alibaba so it'll be a couple weeks before I start on that since it's literally the slow boat from China.

For my annealer the cases need to be loaded in sideways instead of stacked. I have in mind a feed wheel kind of what's on the annealer itself. I haven't figured out how to align them yet so it's case back.
Click to expand...
If you have a motor in mind he has modified the file for some people on the thread. I have the one that goes on the mr bullet feeder when they were selling them individually (once the 3d printed bullet feeder became popular they stopped selling them unless they could verify you had purchased their bullet feeder. The one that he recommends is really inexpensive if I remember correctly.

I wish you hadn't ordered the spring tubes as I still have some left over from when I built mine. I ordered three spring sizes, one for small bullet, one for large bullet, and the last for cases to use my dillon case feeder for the lee app. It took a lot of going through the thread to get the correct sizes of the springs so that they corresponded to the sizes of the mr bullet feeder springs.
 
blewis3 said:
If you have a motor in mind he has modified the file for some people on the thread. I have the one that goes on the mr bullet feeder when they were selling them individually (once the 3d printed bullet feeder became popular they stopped selling them unless they could verify you had purchased their bullet feeder. The one that he recommends is really inexpensive if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

No, compared to what I"m using for mine which was $8 shipped. I mean, it's not crazy expensive, $33 or so but I've got these other 37mm gear motors sitting around.

blewis3 said:
I wish you hadn't ordered the spring tubes as I still have some left over from when I built mine. I ordered three spring sizes, one for small bullet, one for large bullet, and the last for cases to use my dillon case feeder for the lee app. It took a lot of going through the thread to get the correct sizes of the springs so that they corresponded to the sizes of the mr bullet feeder springs.
Click to expand...

Oh! Very kind of you- what sizes did you end up with? I think I ordered the 13mm OD, which would be an 11mm ID.
 
I purchased a 12 mm OD (1mm wire diameter) for SP, 15 for LP, and 16 for cases (matched the id of the dillon case feeder tube and worked with the spring adaptor in the bullet feeder git hub project. Based on my recollection, I do not think the 16 mm OD would work on very large rifle cases (I think there is another size recommended in the thread), but i tried it on 5.56 and it worked fine with my Lee APP
 
blewis3 said:
I purchased a 12 mm OD (1mm wire diameter) for SP, 15 for LP, and 16 for cases (matched the id of the dillon case feeder tube and worked with the spring adaptor in the bullet feeder git hub project. Based on my recollection, I do not think the 16 mm OD would work on very large rifle cases (I think there is another size recommended in the thread), but i tried it on 5.56 and it worked fine with my Lee APP
Click to expand...
From Mr Bullet Feeder

Two sizes are available. The Small (10mm inner diameter) matches the springs used with the rifle caliber machines and the large size (12mm inner diameter) as shipped with the pistol calibers.
Click to expand...

Oh- I might have screwed up, because I am mainly interested in case feeding not bullet feeding... Oops.
 
My case chamfer device is coming along! My original goal was a custom head for my 550, but I slept on it a couple of nights to come up with a design that will fit in any die. Other improvements are spring-loaded to give proper tension. I printed in TPU a custom gasket in the die for the case type (did 5.56 but can also do one for 7.62) to keep the case from spinning. I still need to figure out how to do the standoffs- ideally they'd be adjustable for different case heights. Also need a way to lock them down instead of depending on the weight of the motor. Reason being is that my next version is using a dremel-like remote motor with a flexible shaft to drive the head. This way I can put two of these dies along side the wide-ass Dillon trim motor to trim, then chamfer in and out!.

1707175447648.png

(tried to embed video, but here's a link)
photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Underwater Stig

photos.app.goo.gl photos.app.goo.gl

View attachment PXL_20240205_223206755.mp4
 
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Sasquatch said:
My case chamfer device is coming along! My original goal was a custom head for my 550, but I slept on it a couple of nights to come up with a design that will fit in any die. Other improvements are spring-loaded to give proper tension. I printed in TPU a custom gasket in the die for the case type (did 5.56 but can also do one for 7.62) to keep the case from spinning. I still need to figure out how to do the standoffs- ideally they'd be adjustable for different case heights. Also need a way to lock them down instead of depending on the weight of the motor. Reason being is that my next version is using a dremel-like remote motor with a flexible shaft to drive the head. This way I can put two of these dies along side the wide-ass Dillon trim motor to trim, then chamfer in and out!.

View attachment 738334

(tried to embed video, but here's a link)
photos.app.goo.gl

New video by Underwater Stig

photos.app.goo.gl photos.app.goo.gl

View attachment 738306
Click to expand...
This is a cool project. You think you could get a 3 in 1 cutter there and set the height to trim as well as chamfer and debur?
 
DESi said:
This is a cool project. You think you could get a 3 in 1 cutter there and set the height to trim as well as chamfer and debur?
Click to expand...
Yeah- probably. The design has moved on to a remote motor so I have more room. I also had to widen it so should be able to fit more devices. Trim would likely need a stouter motor than what I have- and would have to find a way to make it a precise distance. Maybe a combo of the spring and some way to accurately set the distance.
 
I learned a lot from making this device. Went through several generations of direct drive, flexible cable drive, commercial flex cable drive, back to direct with a spline...

1712943463110.png

And got to thinking after @DESi showed me the Forster 3-in-1. I was thinking I could motorize that since in one position it cuts/chamfer/deburrs all at once. And there are other brands as well.

And then there's maligned 'ole Lee precision. Their trim die (which attaches to a screwdriver or drill) is dead simple. It also does the 3-in-1 thing. And it costs <$30. I'm kind of happy that I ended up with the same design before I found the Lee, which was overcoming the tendency for cases to rotate. Like Lee, I used a compression material (TPU) so that the case went into the die, it was held tightly.

1712943789863.png

So I spent more than a month reproducing something that Lee sells for cheap. It wasn't for nought- I learned a ton on both 3d modeling and 3d printing. And- I'm putting it to use- those motors I had will now power the Lee trimmer with the custom sliding mount I made for it.

The long term project I'm still working on is the AI-powered bullet sorter, using the bullet collator from Cast Boolits.
 
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Sasquatch said:
I learned a lot from making this device. Went through several generations of direct drive, flexible cable drive, commercial flex cable drive, back to direct with a spline...

View attachment 767284

And got to thinking after @DESi showed me the Forster 3-in-1. I was thinking I could motorize that since in one position it cuts/chamfer/deburrs all at once. And there are other brands as well.

And then there's maligned 'ole Lee precision. Their trim die (which attaches to a screwdriver or drill) is dead simple. It also does the 3-in-1 thing. And it costs <$30. I'm kind of happy that I ended up with the same design before I found the Lee, which was overcoming the tendency for cases to rotate. Like Lee, I used a compression material (TPU) so that the case went into the die, it was held tightly.

View attachment 767286

So I spent more than a month reproducing something that Lee sells for cheap. It wasn't for nought- I learned a ton on both 3d modeling and 3d printing. And- I'm putting it to use- those motors I had will now power the Lee trimmer with the custom sliding mount I made for it.

The long term project I'm still working on is the AI-powered bullet sorter, using the bullet collator from Cast Boolits.
Click to expand...
Nice work! At least you were able to sharpen your skills and learn some things along the way.
 
Didn't you say you had a son?
 
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