NC Constitutional Carry
- Thread starter Dale Gribble
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Dale Gribble
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Asked about making the concealed carry permit optional, Berger told reporters: “I think people have a constitutional right to protect themselves, utilizing weapons. I think that law-abiding citizens can be trusted to handle those rights responsibly. I just don’t know that the timing is right for us, at this time, to move forward with additional gun legislation.”
That seems to be a common, BS excuse among Republicans.
And that’s todays lesson, boys and girls…Team Red despises liberty just like Team Blue.
That seems to be a common, BS excuse among Republicans.
And that’s todays lesson, boys and girls…Team Red despises liberty just like Team Blue.
Now, we have 2 years to tell them what kind of POS they are.
ultimately, they are all the same.
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DrScaryGuy
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In the newspaper, Berger is quoted as saying he didn't have the votes. They need every single Republican in both houses to override the veto. All 132 of them voting unanimously because all 68 Dems will vote against it. That's a tall order.
You can say "uniparty", "all the same", but a party that votes 98% pro-gun and a party that votes 100% anti-gun are not the same. If we knew who the few were that would not vote for it, we could go after them, but a blanket statement that they are all the same is just not accurate.
Every war is a series of battles. This year we gave up nothing and gained a major victory. I'm disappointed but I'm not going to denigrate our soldiers as a group because they didn't bring home everything in a single session.
You can say "uniparty", "all the same", but a party that votes 98% pro-gun and a party that votes 100% anti-gun are not the same. If we knew who the few were that would not vote for it, we could go after them, but a blanket statement that they are all the same is just not accurate.
Every war is a series of battles. This year we gave up nothing and gained a major victory. I'm disappointed but I'm not going to denigrate our soldiers as a group because they didn't bring home everything in a single session.
When Paul Valone and the folks from GRNC visit the legislature, Republican leaders like Moore and Berger should be open and honest with them. If a bill won't get enough votes to pass (or override a veto, as the case may be) they should simply say so. If it's a close call, with a couple of legislators who need to be persuaded, they should convey that so an effort can be made to turn out votes. What we don't need are jerks who lead up on and then say "never mind" at the last minute. And if the leaders really don't know where the members of their party stand well before the day of the vote, we are in serious need of new party leaders in the legislature.
Absolutely, also squeeze in a Stop the Bleed class.
another wolf creeping
And a class on how to change a tire and oil, jump a car, put out a fire with an extinguisher, kinda like we had when I was in school in 7th grade. It was called technology and life skills. Half of it was wood shop/auto shop and the other was “home economics” class. We had a lady teach sewing, balancing a check book and basic cooking stuff. It was honestly my favorite class out of all my years of school. The guy taught auto and shop the second half of the year
ChickenHawk
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The timing isn't right because they possibly have the votes to override a veto. They can't use it as leverage in the next election for votes if it passed.
DrScaryGuy
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i made a duffel bag in 7th grade. while it has seen lighter use than most of my bags, it's held up the longest. you know, like 30 years.
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Dale Gribble
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Phil must have been getting lit up on Twitter…looks like it is shut down.
Coward.
Coward.
while permitting is an inherent infringement and utter BS, I am still delighted that the PPP was abolished. That was a clear obstruction to firearm ownership and dealer revenues so Im going to put the blinders on for the moment and just keep celebrating that.
I was waiting for someone to say this. For this to be true, it requires a coordinated effort (some would say "conspiracy") between every elected R, and I just don't think the leadership is capable of holding everyone together like that. The D's, do, of course, because they are collectivists. But R's as a group are too independently minded to goose step together like that.
On here, our primary--possibly only--interest is guns. But the R's are taking on some of the biggest, most divisive issues the state faces. Abortion, voter reform, redistricting and school choice are going to get all the publicity, and in the media, it will all be very negative. The GOP leadership is showing a lot of courage with these. They already took a big hit with the PPP. So maybe Berger is saying that adding Constitutional Carry to that hornet's nest would be inadvisable, especially if he can't guarantee it will pass. If we get a Republican governor in 2024, we'll probably only need a simple majority.
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M4gery4life
Well-Known Member
politics is the art of the possible. Permitless carry with training requirement is still good because you can get a CHP class in a weekend.
You *CANNOT* get a CHP, even in a good county, that quickly.
If you reside in Mecklenburg or Wake county, you will wait almost a year. Unacceptable
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
fishgutzy
Senior Member
Got delayed because the bill contains no means to independently track training compliance.
Instructors oppose any elimination of mandated customers. They'd be forced to lower prices to attract customers.
Criminals are still not going to any training class.
Instructors oppose any elimination of mandated customers. They'd be forced to lower prices to attract customers.
Criminals are still not going to any training class.
What kind of ingrates are gun owners? Moore and Berger have already eliminated PPPs during this session of the legislature.
There might be no reason for peasants to re-elect legislators if something they wanted wasn't dangling in the next session of the legislature. And some voters can be depended on to offer excuses and sing the praises of legislators in hopes of being on their good side "next time."
Did you notice the bill allowed online training? Anybody able to deliver online training could undercut prices for in-person training and sweep the market.
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Or they could just do what is best for their constituents like they were voted in to do. Maybe they would win reelection based on the good things they did. Saying timing isn't right is a stupid nonexcuse.
Bills that have a financial impact on the budget are exempt from the crossover deadline. In past bills, we’ve seen them do things like change the fee for CHP’s, or it authorizes some money for studying gun violence, etc. It would get bounced to the Finance committee then can come out again after crossover deadline. There was a reference in the video that the sponsors are trying to get around the deadline, so you may see something like this get tacked onto the bill and it may not be completely dead.
Though it wouldn’t overcome Berger’s reluctance to take up another gun bill this session.
Though it wouldn’t overcome Berger’s reluctance to take up another gun bill this session.
Timfoilhat
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That's where we come into play. Light up the phones and let him know.
M4gery4life
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GRNC just sent out a new alert...
Progress on House Bill 189, now named “Freedom to Carry NC,” stalled on Wednesday after the NRA reportedly came out in opposition to the bill. NRA lobbyist DJ Spiker, who had been utterly absent from the debate over permitless concealed carry (and rarely seen at the legislature), showed up at the Judiciary 2 Committee meeting which passed HB 189 on Tuesday and began complaining about the bill’s contents.
To satisfy Speaker Tim Moore’s requirement to move the bill, the latest incarnation of HB 189 contains a nominal training requirement to establish that concealed carriers know relevant state laws. The training requirement can be satisfied by courses from the NRA, USCCA, or an online course to be established by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission. There will be no permit, no live fire training, no requirement to carry proof of training, nor any central repository or database of who has or has not taken a course.
NRA “not invented here” syndrome
Spiker reportedly complained to bill sponsor Rep. Keith Kidwell, that due to the training requirement, it was no longer a “true” constitutional carry bill. In truth, HB 189 has always been a hybrid bill in that it offered permitless carry only to those who would otherwise qualify for a permit. Its progenitors stretch back to 2017 with HB 69, sponsored by Rep. Larry Pittman, and HB 746, sponsored by Rep. Chris Millis, both of which contained language similar to HB 189. Despite the fact that HB 746 passed the NC House, sponsors report that the NRA has never been active in the constitutional carry debate.
What the NRA is really objecting to – and which they have done many times in the past – could best be described as the “not invented here” syndrome. Namely, that the NRA couldn’t claim credit for a bill it had not participated in crafting.
What Spiker seems to avoid mentioning is that HB 189 represents a huge step forward by eliminating governmental “permission slips” for exercising a fundamental civil right. When called to explain, Spiker is quoted by the Raleigh News & Observer as making the laughable claim that the NRA “will never apologize for refusing to compromise on an issue as critical as Constitutional Carry.” In truth, the NRA (and Spiker) have a long history of compromise not only tactically, but on core principals in the gun rights movement.
But most important, the NRA has had since 2017 to weigh in on the language making up HB 189, but it reportedly never has. Instead, Spiker swooped in at the last minute and, like a vulture, deposited a large load of dung onto the efforts of the activists who are actually getting things done.
Next steps
HB 189 is not dead. Rep. Kidwell had it referred back to the Rules Committee in order to add a fiscal note, which would make it immune to the May 4 crossover deadline by which bills must clear at least one chamber to remain alive. In coming days, GRNC will issue alerts to get it moving.
Meanwhile, gun rights supporters are advised to contact the NRA and hit them where it hurts: money. If you are a current member who is not fully paid up or have an annual membership, resign from the organization. If you’ve already quit, call and email them anyway.
The message is this: “Not a dime for the NRA.”
Bonus round
As a bonus, if you would like to express your “appreciation” to NRA lobbyist DJ Spiker, he can be reached by phone or text at 757-575-8507 and by email at [email protected]. In order that your feedback not be misrepresented as “harassment,” be civil and phone, text or email only once.
Progress on House Bill 189, now named “Freedom to Carry NC,” stalled on Wednesday after the NRA reportedly came out in opposition to the bill. NRA lobbyist DJ Spiker, who had been utterly absent from the debate over permitless concealed carry (and rarely seen at the legislature), showed up at the Judiciary 2 Committee meeting which passed HB 189 on Tuesday and began complaining about the bill’s contents.
To satisfy Speaker Tim Moore’s requirement to move the bill, the latest incarnation of HB 189 contains a nominal training requirement to establish that concealed carriers know relevant state laws. The training requirement can be satisfied by courses from the NRA, USCCA, or an online course to be established by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission. There will be no permit, no live fire training, no requirement to carry proof of training, nor any central repository or database of who has or has not taken a course.
NRA “not invented here” syndrome
Spiker reportedly complained to bill sponsor Rep. Keith Kidwell, that due to the training requirement, it was no longer a “true” constitutional carry bill. In truth, HB 189 has always been a hybrid bill in that it offered permitless carry only to those who would otherwise qualify for a permit. Its progenitors stretch back to 2017 with HB 69, sponsored by Rep. Larry Pittman, and HB 746, sponsored by Rep. Chris Millis, both of which contained language similar to HB 189. Despite the fact that HB 746 passed the NC House, sponsors report that the NRA has never been active in the constitutional carry debate.
What the NRA is really objecting to – and which they have done many times in the past – could best be described as the “not invented here” syndrome. Namely, that the NRA couldn’t claim credit for a bill it had not participated in crafting.
What Spiker seems to avoid mentioning is that HB 189 represents a huge step forward by eliminating governmental “permission slips” for exercising a fundamental civil right. When called to explain, Spiker is quoted by the Raleigh News & Observer as making the laughable claim that the NRA “will never apologize for refusing to compromise on an issue as critical as Constitutional Carry.” In truth, the NRA (and Spiker) have a long history of compromise not only tactically, but on core principals in the gun rights movement.
But most important, the NRA has had since 2017 to weigh in on the language making up HB 189, but it reportedly never has. Instead, Spiker swooped in at the last minute and, like a vulture, deposited a large load of dung onto the efforts of the activists who are actually getting things done.
Next steps
HB 189 is not dead. Rep. Kidwell had it referred back to the Rules Committee in order to add a fiscal note, which would make it immune to the May 4 crossover deadline by which bills must clear at least one chamber to remain alive. In coming days, GRNC will issue alerts to get it moving.
Meanwhile, gun rights supporters are advised to contact the NRA and hit them where it hurts: money. If you are a current member who is not fully paid up or have an annual membership, resign from the organization. If you’ve already quit, call and email them anyway.
The message is this: “Not a dime for the NRA.”
Bonus round
As a bonus, if you would like to express your “appreciation” to NRA lobbyist DJ Spiker, he can be reached by phone or text at 757-575-8507 and by email at [email protected]. In order that your feedback not be misrepresented as “harassment,” be civil and phone, text or email only once.
This I do not believe. The training will be on the honor system? No way. This looks just like a school yard child feud to see who can come out on top and take credit. I don't like the NRA, but I don't like this blame game either. Only a fool believes one side without hearing the other. If they can still get this ironed out then whatever. I don't think they will. I live free regardless of what tyrants demand. Cheers! 🍻
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Then NRA would gladly step in and offer online training if you pay a fee or membership, so they will support it based on them making a killing.
M4gery4life
Well-Known Member
I was there Tuesday & spent the whole day following Paul Valone around, listening to the dialogue behind the cameras...I know more than most folks.
Spiker is an idiot & needs to go.
I listened to Keith Kidwell talk about his interaction with Spiker... Spiker has never met Kidwell before & walks into his office trying to bully him.
Remember this picture?
there are some representatives you can bully, but Kidwell is NOT one of them. 😉❤️
Frankly, Kidwell reminds me of Sandor Clegane “about to eat every f*cking chicken in this room”. 🤣
This is my email to Kidwell on 5/3/23
Dear Representative Kidwell:
I have written and called my Representatives and Senators to ask them to reject HB189 in its present form. The added training requirement is just another "papers please." There will either be a database established or a certificate of some kind to carry. Do we need training to exercise FREE SPEECH? Why would we need training to exercise our Right To Bear Arms? This Bill is NOT a Constitutional Carry Bill at all. It's a Training Carry Bill that requires free citizens to go through a mandated government approved training course BEFORE they can exercise their God given rights to self-defense. Don't let this Bill pass in its present form. If we cannot get True Constitutional Carry, then let it fail miserably. Once a training requirement is added and passed it will NEVER be able to get removed and you know it. We need you folks to stand up and get it right the first time. This training requirement is a red heron. This discriminates against low-income people. Required training cost money and time. I am a big advocate for firearm training. I am NOT a big advocate for government required training before I can be a free citizen exercising my God Given rights. It's the individual's responsibility to know the Federal and State laws and the how-to's of gun safety and operation. It's not the government's job to mandate it. I know I am speaking for a lot of voters right now who are furious this training part was added. If we do not have true Constitutional Carry in NC then let's just wait until we can. What you guys are doing now is trying to rush this through before Crossover even though it violates our freedoms and is way short of being Constitutional Carry. I beg you to remove the training addition or just ditch the Bill until we can get Robinson in as Governor.
Sincerely
Blah blah blah
Response:
Rep. Kidwell sends; noted and filed.
Joy Albright
Legislative Assistant
Representative Keith Kidwell, 79TH District
Dear Representative Kidwell:
I have written and called my Representatives and Senators to ask them to reject HB189 in its present form. The added training requirement is just another "papers please." There will either be a database established or a certificate of some kind to carry. Do we need training to exercise FREE SPEECH? Why would we need training to exercise our Right To Bear Arms? This Bill is NOT a Constitutional Carry Bill at all. It's a Training Carry Bill that requires free citizens to go through a mandated government approved training course BEFORE they can exercise their God given rights to self-defense. Don't let this Bill pass in its present form. If we cannot get True Constitutional Carry, then let it fail miserably. Once a training requirement is added and passed it will NEVER be able to get removed and you know it. We need you folks to stand up and get it right the first time. This training requirement is a red heron. This discriminates against low-income people. Required training cost money and time. I am a big advocate for firearm training. I am NOT a big advocate for government required training before I can be a free citizen exercising my God Given rights. It's the individual's responsibility to know the Federal and State laws and the how-to's of gun safety and operation. It's not the government's job to mandate it. I know I am speaking for a lot of voters right now who are furious this training part was added. If we do not have true Constitutional Carry in NC then let's just wait until we can. What you guys are doing now is trying to rush this through before Crossover even though it violates our freedoms and is way short of being Constitutional Carry. I beg you to remove the training addition or just ditch the Bill until we can get Robinson in as Governor.
Sincerely
Blah blah blah
Response:
Rep. Kidwell sends; noted and filed.
Joy Albright
Legislative Assistant
Representative Keith Kidwell, 79TH District
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lost me right there.....but you are welcome to think about yourself however you wish. 😂 😂 😂
or any of the other wolves
M4gery4life
Well-Known Member
well now you got your wish & got nothing... you helped screw over 40% of NC residents stuck in Wake, Mecklenburg, Guilford & Forsyth counties... 🙄
USCCA, NRA and NC criminal Justice folks all stand to make money on any kind of training program so they will jump on board with the training requirement. USCCA and NrA should be backing a CLEAN constitutional carry bill.
I don't wish or need anything. I don't bow to tyrants. I didn't screw over anybody. You are just getting your panties in a wad because you don't like my point of view I sent to Kidwell. Did you send one expressing your point of view? Do I have the right to express free speech or do you want to restrict that also? I have listened or read your opinions. I may not agree with them all, but you have a right to express them. I tried to add a little humor to lighten things up, but you appear to just want to silence me and now BLAME ME.....just like Paul is blaming the NRA. I do NOT support the NRA and could care less about them especially in the last few years. They have done some good things in the past. They were the only ones at one time. Now, other people want to be on top. Great, let them fight it out. I hope they all fight for us. Oh, and when did I become responsible for the fact that people CHOOSE to live (not stuck) in Wake, Mecklenburg, Guilford, and Forsythe Counties? Take some responsibility. If you live in one of those Counties then you choose to do so. I choose to live in a free County. If I didn't I would move not blame someone else for it. I'm a big boy so blame away if it makes you feel better. God knows I don't want to crush your fragile feelings. Geez...have a cold Coors Light and relax.
Right, he screwed you guys over instead of the corrupt politicians that refuse to respect the constitution... I don't understand this mentality. The more you accept compromise the more of your rights you will lose.
M4gery4life
Well-Known Member
I recall the last time we were this close to Constitutional carry.., the news stations were running interviews with gunshop owners like Proshots manager Richard with the employees saying ”oh this is so dangerous, these people aren’t trained”.. 🙄🤬
I spoke with a different gunshop about collecting signatures for permitless Carry & they weren’t interested either.😥
I will say it again, Speaker Moore said that if the training requirement left the bill, the bill wouldn’t be heard.
Maybe GRNC & Kidwell can do something, But it’s a lot harder now than it was 2 days ago... 😥
M4gery4life
Look, we disagree on some things. Maybe on the big picture. No hard feelings. I'm an old school US Constitution and Bill of Rights lover. Compromise is the crack in the door for the devil to put his foot in....in my opinion. A little back and forth is good for sharpening each other. Just don't go drink a BL in disgust. It will all be ok. (more humor at the end)
Look, we disagree on some things. Maybe on the big picture. No hard feelings. I'm an old school US Constitution and Bill of Rights lover. Compromise is the crack in the door for the devil to put his foot in....in my opinion. A little back and forth is good for sharpening each other. Just don't go drink a BL in disgust. It will all be ok. (more humor at the end)
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If he is that type of guy then I doubt my little ole email got him twisted up in a knot. The response was that my email was "noted and filed" .....maybe file 13, who knows. But, I did get involved and I expressed my God given right to free speech. MericaI was there Tuesday & spent the whole day following Paul Valone around, listening to the dialogue behind the cameras...I know more than most folks.
Spiker is an idiot & needs to go.
I listened to Keith Kidwell talk about his interaction with Spiker... Spiker has never met Kidwell before & walks into his office trying to bully him.
Remember this picture?
there are some representatives you can bully, but Kidwell is NOT one of them. 😉❤️
Frankly, Kidwell reminds me of Sandor Clegane “about to eat every f*cking chicken in this room”. 🤣
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