Opentops...

Sharps40

Price, it's all about the price
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Anybody using them? I have one inbound in 44 special and pretty sure I'd like to trade into several more, including richards masons.


What are your thoughts on them as owners and users.
 
I would like to find a Richards Mason conversion in very nice mechanical condition, with a well-defined rifled bore. Hard to do considering what black powder does to metal not properly cleaned and oiled. I figure the cost of a really nice one, even if the case color and blueing is gone, would be more than I could justify.
 
Looking at them in repo too. I figured to start with the 1872 and go all thru it . Already have some of the new parts in hand. If I like it I'll either fit a 38 bbl and cylinder or perhaps go thru a rm repop. Meantime I must find an 1862 in cal 380 or I'm just gonna bust.
 
What do you have coming exactly? Cimarron?
 
Cimarron 1872 44 colt-russian-special. 7.5 in. Navy size grip.

Planning to smith and tune it and likely shorten it to 3.5 in and hopefully maintain ejection.

Wanted to specifically find out if these usually shoot low as I havnt settled on front sight .... not sure if it'll be bead, 1858 rem blade, turtle, heart or coin.
 
Like the Hickok but in 44 and with an ejector.


Also, how do the firing pins hold up?

Are the like the c and b guns with bolts that are actually wider than the cylinder notches?

Finally does the recoil shield have a hardened firing pin insert.

Was hoping there was a sass shooter here that has first hand high mileage experience competing with these.
 
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Dis-confuse me? Open tops - like break opens/Schofield/S&W Russian cartridge revolvers, but also C&B revolvers like 1851, 1860, & 1862?

Dixie Gun Works and Midway usually have a decent collection of BP guns, even in The Great Dearth of Guns times. Track of the Wolf is good for parts.
 
Thanks. Sent an email with specific data this AM. Will see what they have to say.
 
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Picked it up. First impressions are not the gooey yumyum feeling touted about. If this is a typical example, the fitting of a feature related to accuracy and longevity is sub par. The Model Ps are very much better from the same company.

As boxed it'd be OK as an occasional plinker. But it'll need a bit of final fitting, stuff that should be done at the factory, to be ready for daily work over the long term. More to follow tomorrow.

20211124_155826.jpg
 
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I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with this Open Top. I have a few similar SAs; here's a 5-1/2" Cimarron 1872 .44 Open Top Navy and a Uberti 1851 Navy with .38spl cartridge conversion, barrel lined to .357 (and cylinder aligned) by Kenny Howell.
44 Open Top and 38 Navy.jpg
And a prop gun :p - Cimarron "Man With No Name" - it's a .38spl gate loader, no ejector. All of these required a little minor hand fettling, but they seem to be solid guns once that is done. And they are simple.
IMG_4051 copy.jpg
 
Well, on the externals.....broken wedge screw. Lost its head on the first turn.

Arbor burrs had locked bbl to frame. Hammered in a wood wedge to force them apart

Short arbor, expected and easily fixed.

Hammer dosnt fall, bolt won't rise and trigger won't return if backstrap screws are snugged down.

Other than that .... it's pretty.
 
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Well, on the externals.....broken wedge screw. Lost its head on the first turn.

Arbor burrs had locked bbl to frame. Hammered in a wood wedge to force them apart

Short arbor, expected and easily fixed.

Hammer dosnt fall, bolt won't rise and trigger won't return if backstrap screws are snugged down.

Other than that .... it's pretty.
That is unacceptable. Disappointing to hear :(
 
Step 1, finish the factory fitting of the grip strap. Clearance the hammer slot so the damn thing can fall and consequently cure all the noted action failures.

Step 2 shorten and install a Wolff mainspring for the 1873 Model P. Now the gun won't beat itself to death and shaved the pull from 4.25 lbs to 3 lbs all before any internal smoothing.

20211125_131218.jpg20211125_131830.jpg
 
Fiocchi 247g lrn 44 russian shoots on at 7 yds with front sight buried, same as precision one 44 special 200g fmj.

A good sign. It's at least accurate. But sights are abysmal. 20211125_134507.jpg

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End shake is near zero with cylinder gap variable from .006" to bound cylinder depending on wedge position. Lengthening the arbor will cure the barrel pinchi g the cylinder.
 
Arbor and barrel lapped to a perfect fit now with some nonembeding 250 grit lapping paste from brownells.

No more beating it apart with a hammer and wood wedge.
 
Opened it up, cleaned it out. Not bad for dirt, very nice for internal finish and up to the good standards I'm used to seeing from Uberti.

The cylinder hand bound against the arbor, it was just a touch too thick. A few swipes with an india stone on the inside top edge of the hand pretty much eliminated the bind.

The cylinder bolt was peaning the trailing edge of the cylinder notches. A check indicated though the bolt trailing edge was fitted, it was not fitted enough for the bolt head to fully enter the cylinder slots. A few swipes with an india stone on the trailing edge of the cylinder bolt head and it then fully dropped into each and every notch.

The leg of the cylinder bolt that rides the hammer cam had been beveled along its angled edge but not the top edge which must slip up and over the hammer cam. A few swipes with an india stone rounded over the top leading edge of the leg and the movement became quite a bit smoother.

A Wolff wire bolt and trigger spring for the 1873 Model P Colt/Clones was checked and installed.

No other action work was accomplished. Hammer notches and sear face are untouched. Internals were dry lubed with EEZOX and points/pivots that rotate or slide were given a touch of RIG.

With no serious metal removal, the 4+ pound slightly gritty trigger pull is now smooth and crisp 2 lbs 4 oz.


20211126_091250.jpg
 
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Well I hope you got a good deal on it. Sounds like it became more of a project than anticipated?
 
Price was great for new in box. Expected short arbor but not the locked up action. Was a simple fix and my guess is that such faults are atypical.
 
The arbor is short, or the arbor hole is too deep. Either by design or by luck the difference is less than .001" more than the thickness of a Fillister Head screw from brownells. The situation allows the barrel to cam upward both chaning the point of impact and the barrel cylinder gap. The barrel can be cammed up enough to bind the cylinder.

20211126_132641.jpg

So, the arbor face is spotted center and a #31 hole drilled through and then tapped in preparation for giving the gun three points of contact. (point one is the foot of the barrel, point two is the wedge to barrel/arbor interface and point three will be arbor face to arbor hole bottom)

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Threaded 6x48 screw installed tightly with blue loctight.

20211126_134015.jpg

Now the barrel and frame meet perfectly. No matter how hard the wedge is pounded in, the barrel cylinder gap is maintained at a perfect .006". With this modification, the gun will be the same gun, printing and shooting the same every time it is reassembled. Only way to get it better is to purchase a full frame revolver!

20211126_134145.jpg
 
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Also trying to find the 1862 in 380 nut no love anywhere
This load in Ball will effectively duplicate the load Wild Bill would have had in his .36 Navy. The most dangerous man to ever walk the North American Continent...Jeff Cooper.
I have had them in .38 Special, and .45 Colt. The 45 had a 3 inch barrel. Made to duplicate the ones the Mormons carried to Utah.
 
Just want to add One thing.........You are a Magician with SAs. We don't have a single person in our area that is capable of doing the work you are doing....If you EVER decide to do ANY outside work, please contact me....Billy
 
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Thank you. Very flattered but as always with my craft, it's handwork that anyone can do with basic tools.
 
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