Pandemic Price gouging thread

[amnesia]

I’m shooting a LOT less. Been busy having fun burning gas instead of powder.

Same here. Gas is cheap and I can fill up for 93 octane for less than a current box of 9mm

 

[yard mongrel]

Anybody else considered taking up archery?

I let my stock of 380 get pretty low, had a couple thousand rounds in my cart at SG and was going to let a few weeks ride before I bought it. That was in March or April. I logged in to purchase, of course it was gone, and I haven't seen it in stock since.

 

[pinkbunny]

Same here. Gas is cheap and I can fill up for 93 octane for less than a current box of 9mm

I thought you went Tesla?

 

[Les White]

I was talking to a friend yesterday. Her husband and she have a friend that bought a 380 and couldn’t find any ammo for it. She asked the husband to try to find some. Husband stops by a small gun shop in Ayden (she did not say the name) and finds 2 boxes......$50 each. Husband calls friend and tells her. She says buy them. She paid $1/round for 380.

Waiting for .22 to hit $1/rd.

I'll buy a new house.

 

[shadowsbane]

I was talking to a friend yesterday. Her husband and she have a friend that bought a 380 and couldn’t find any ammo for it. She asked the husband to try to find some. Husband stops by a small gun shop in Ayden (she did not say the name) and finds 2 boxes......$50 each. Husband calls friend and tells her. She says buy them. She paid $1/round for 380.

It topped out at 2.10/round few months ago on several retailers. Lasted about 2 weeks at that rate. hollowpoints stayed the same price though.

 

[BigB6flyer]

I’m starting to think I should take my guns out of my safe & put my ammo in it.

 

[ontheroad]

 

[REELDOC]

I do have some sympathy for new shooters purchasing their first weapon. I have personally provided ammo to friends that I finally talked into buying a gun just so they could shoot to a modicum of experience. I usually take them out and let them practice with some cheap 22 to get the hang of things and then let them load up a mag or three of the ammo I gave them. I tell them that is the only ammo I can provide and to use it wisely and buy some when they can at whatever cost they can get it for. At least if I need some shooters they will have some experience.

Some of the local shops are saving ammo in stock to only sell if someone buys a gun. I think that is good bidness.

As for gouging, it ain't gouging if someone wants to sell something at a higher price than you think its worth. Just don't buy it. The only other option is to let the .gov determine the prices for everything we buy. That's going to happen to gun stuff soon enough anyway if the senate doesn't stay in the majority or Pedo and the Ho figure out how to do it by EO. If you need it now, best find a way to buy it.

Off soap box..............

 

[wvsig]

It is not gouging if someone is willing to buy it. I hate seeing the prices that people are charging but it is what it is. Everyone I know who is in the business is telling me the same thing. They are paying more and they now have to charge more. My local gun store where I was buying 8lbs of Win 231 for $160 showed me an invoice for 380 auto. It was $.45 a round + shipping. He said this is what I am paying which is why I am charging that and he pointed to the whiteboard behind the gun counter with ammo prices per 50. He was selling it for $.60 IIRC. They still can't get enough and people keep buying it. He sells ammo but was saying people just need to chill out and stop buying so that the price can stabilize but if they keep buying he will keep selling.

At first I was annoyed by people like Outdoor Limited but you have to remember his volume is probably 30% of what it was a year ago. Places can't get what they are ordering. Take this as an example. The numbers are made up but they still illustrate the point. If you ran on a volume model and were selling 20,000 cases a month at $200 each. You were netting $4,000,000 month. Lets say your gross margin was 10%. You are making $400,000 a month but you are paying for the building, staff, equipment etc.... so lets say your net margin is 5%. $200,000.

In todays market you cannot get 20,0000 cases. You can get 10,000. Even if you are paying the same price per case which they aren't you have to price that ammo at $400 a case to make the same margin. If you add in a 25-40% price increase to the price per case which is what I am hearing from the people I have talked to you are getting closer to $600 a case to maintain your profit level. So many businesses these days are running month to month. They are taking money from Peter to pay Paul. They are not sitting on huge amounts of cash. Cash goes to inventory but right now there isn't any inventory to buy.

I think this is what is happening. Yes there are some who are taking advantage of the overall market but they are few and far between. In the end most of the people selling at these high prices are doing it to keep the doors open and in the end I think a lot of them are going to shut.

I don't see it going much higher. On any given day you can log into ammoseek and get brass cased 115gr or 124gr 9mm for $$.70 delivered to you. I just looked and that price is available right now. Only people who don't know where to look or are not patient enough are paying $1+ a round for range fodder. I do not see how it is going to push higher when it has been this way for about a month now. Biden and Harris are inevitable at this point. Their swearing in is already baked into the price we are seeing right now. I believe there will be outliers paying $100 for 50 rounds but I don't see it being the norm.

 

[amnesia]

I thought you went Tesla?

I did. I make up for it though by burning 93 and methanol.

 

[pinkbunny]

It is not gouging if someone is willing to buy it.

Price gouging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Price gouging occurs when a seller increases the prices of goods, services or commodities to a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Usually, this event occurs after a demand or supply shock. Price gouging may be considered exploitative and unethical.

No, that is quite literally what it means. It is price gouging. You're just quibbling over whether it is unethical or not, and the reasoning why it isn't unethical.
I actually agree with you, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

[Scari]

Can we start a price gouging thread?
I understand capitalism and can appreciate increases in cost the sellers must pass on.....but jesus....some of these companies are really sticking it to people.

Outdoor limited is a place i use to buy rimfire ammo from and some self defense 9mm every once and a while.

Look at the price on this white box 9mm...........

I just hope when everything smooths back out we remember what retailers held a moral compass when times were bad and which tried to screw people.
View attachment 273224

Perhaps you should go after their supplier who can’t keep up with demand? I’ve personally seen an invoice at a local shop what he had to pay for 9mm the profit margin is small

 

[wvsig]

Price gouging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No, that is quite literally what it means. You're just quibbling over whether it is unethical or not.

No I am not there is no natural disaster prompting the run on ammo and ammo is not a basic necessity like food. I would also argue that many of the people involved in the market are not profiteering. They are maintaining their margin and keeping their doors open in the market they find themselves in.

 

[fieldgrade]

I’m not trying to belittle anyone here, but anybody in here who thinks it’s price gouging to sell for what the market will bear doesn’t:

a) understand capitalism
b) understand economics 101

and hasn’t:
c) worked on commission
d) been responsible for profit and loss
e) run their own business

 

[wvsig]

I’m not trying to belittle anyone here, but anybody in here who thinks it’s price gouging to sell for what the market will bear doesn’t:

a) understand capitalism
b) understand economics 101

and hasn’t:
c) worked on commission
d) been responsible for profit and loss
e) run their own business

I once explained to a lady why her job at my company was going to cost what it was. I told her roughly what my costs were etc... I said so I have to charge you X. She looked at me and said "OH.... So you are in it to make a profit.....?" I looked at her and said yes I don't do this out of the goodness of my heart. We still go the job.

 

[pinkbunny]

No I am not there is no natural disaster prompting the run on ammo and ammo is not a basic necessity like food. I would also argue that many of the people involved in the market are not profiteering. They are maintaining their margin and keeping their doors open in the market they find themselves in.

Pandemic + rioting + rise in crime with cutting of police budgets + fear of losing rights to 2nd Amendment = natural disaster
And I would argue that right to self defense, with the most effective tool, would make it a necessity. At least, that's how buyers view it.

I actually agree with you on the economic reasoning. I just think we should call a spade a spade. It is price gouging. Some are doing it for valid reasons(retailers), some are scummy people who are not(armslist/gunbroker resellers/scalpers who exacerbate the problem), but it is gouging.

It should be protected, those that have valid reasons(retailers) should be excused, and those that are not should be looked askance, as with any unethical thing. But still protected against bad laws.

 

[wvsig]

Pandemic + rioting + rise in crime with cutting of police budgets + fear of losing rights to 2nd Amendment = natural disaster
And I would argue that right to self defense, with the most effective tool, would make it a necessity. At least, that's how buyers view it.

I actually agree with you on the economic reasoning. I just think we should call a spade a spade. It is price gouging. Some are doing it for valid reasons(retailers), some are scummy people who are not(armslist/gunbroker resellers), but it is gouging.

It should be protected, those that have valid reasons(retailers) should be excused, and those that are not should be looked askance, as with any unethical thing. But still protected against bad laws.

So you are for govt intervention into the market? The govt should be able to tell private companies how much they can sell their product for?

 

[fieldgrade]

Pandemic + rioting + rise in crime with cutting of police budgets + fear of losing rights to 2nd Amendment = natural disaster
And I would argue that right to self defense, with the most effective tool, would make it a necessity. At least, that's how buyers view it.

I actually agree with you on the economic reasoning. I just think we should call a spade a spade. It is price gouging. Some are doing it for valid reasons(retailers), some are scummy people who are not(armslist/gunbroker resellers), but it is gouging.

It should be protected, those that have valid reasons(retailers) should be excused, and those that are not should be looked askance, as with any unethical thing. But still protected against bad laws.

They should have had the forethought to buy guns and ammo a long time ago.

Why is a retailer/wholesaler with scarce available inventory obliged to give up profit, AND INVENTORY, which he is in the business to sell/earn, due to their lack of forethought?

 

[pinkbunny]

So you are for govt intervention into the market? The govt should be able to tell private companies how much they can sell their product for?

What part of protected against is unclear? I said we should protect against laws against price gouging, ie price gouging should be allowed, there should not be laws against it.

As I said, the real question is, is it unethical? The answer: it depends.
Retailers that have to raise prices because of market shortages: ethical.
Scalpers: Unethical.

You still need to defend the rights of both of these groups.

 

[Chdamn]

I demand that people sell their products at an arbitrary price that I deem as “reasonable” with absolutely no understanding of their supply chain issues or supplier pricing or inventory control problems or their overhead.

Don’t gouge on me.

 

[wvsig]

What part of protected against is unclear? I said we should protect against laws against price gouging, ie price gouging should be allowed, there should not be laws against it.

As I said, the real question is, is it unethical? The answer: it depends.
Retailers that have to raise prices because of market shortages: ethical.
Scalpers: Unethical.

You still need to defend the rights of both of these groups.

I disagree with you that scalpers are unethical. They are providing a service which people are willingly paying for. There is nothing unethical buying something and reselling it for max profit.

 

[fieldgrade]

If you buy something to resell. That’s ethical.

If you steal something to resell. That’s unethical.

 

[Chdamn]

I bought 1000 shares of stock in xyz at $1.00 a share. When it hit $100 a share I dumped every bit of it.

Unethical?

I speculated and bought a bunch of silver at $6 an ounce. When spot hit $15 an ounce I sold every bit of what I had.

Unethical?

I bought a 10,000 rounds of 5.56 at 0.20 cents a round. When the price reached $1.00 a round I sold every bit of what I had.

Unethical?

 

[wvsig]

Tons of 9mm on Grab a Gun....

Handgun Ammo

Shop Handgun Ammunition online. Find the best deals from top brands and enjoy our Shoot Now Pay Later financing–only at GrabAGun.

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#gougingnotgouging

 

[fieldgrade]

I bought 1000 shares of stock in xyz at $1.00 a share. When it hit $100 a share I dumped every bit of it.

Unethical?

I speculated and bought a bunch of silver at $6 an ounce. When spot hit $15 an ounce I sold every bit of what I had.

Unethical?

I bought a 10,000 rounds of 5.56 at 0.20 cents a round. When the price reached $1.00 a round I sold every bit of what I had.

Unethical

I have a retirement account that needs better management. Are you available?

 

[pinkbunny]

I disagree with you that scalpers are not unethical. They are providing a service which people are willingly paying for. There is noting unethical buying something and reselling it for max profit.

Well, let's scenario this:

First, let's start with ethical/unethical. When I say unethical, I'm saying, "I don't think your actions are morally upright, but there is nothing illegal with it, and do what is good in your own eyes, you live your life, I live mine.

Take drugs. I think that taking hard drugs is unethical. It leads to broken lives, and hurts not just you, but often those you love, and even uninvolved people(say, pedestrians as you drive).

That said, while I think it is unethical to take hard drugs, I think it's your own choice, and should be legal. Until you harm someone else, like car wreck as an example.

So, that out of the way, three scenarios:

1.) Retailer of ammunition. See's supply chain all messed up. Knows that shortages will last a year or more, and that if there is no ammo, people won't but guns, accessories, or rent range time. And that this will likely depress the market even when the crunch is over. Raise prices to keep in business? Sure, that's an ethical choice.

2.) A private individual, who bought 1000 rounds of 9mm three years ago, at $0.20/round. Wants to sell ammo, see's prices for ammo is now, let's say, $0.80/round. Knows that if he sells it lower, someone will probably just flip it to that level anyway. Is it ethical to sell at the current market rate? I would say yes.

3.) A private individual conspires with, lets say, 8 other people, to buy up all the local supply of ammo at a lower price in a large store, and circumvent purchase limits designed to allow more people to buy the ammo they desire. Then, creating a local shortage in the area through their actions, or continuing the current shortage, they sell this ammo at greatly increased prices. Is this unethical? I would say yes. Do I think they should be allowed to do it? Yes.

Would it have been unethical for one person to buy in a store, then resell? No, they waited there, and got it, that is ethical. But working with others to induce a shortage(whether they thought about it or not), and circumvent purchase restrictions? Yes, that's unethical.

 

[fieldgrade]

Guys, stop. Yer making my head hurt.

 

[Dale Gribble]

I’ve talked to folks recently who are madder than hell that they cannot buy a box of 50 9mm FMJ rounds for $20...and I asked every one of them the same question...

If a dealer sells you that ammo for that price, do you think he’ll be able to restock that box of ammo on the shelf for the same price from his supplier? If he can get it for $20 from his distributor, do you think he oughta continue to sell it for $20/box.

No lie....some of them said, “Yeah”.

I said, “Well, that’d be stupid as f*ck.”

 

[mj1angier]

If we would just can just go communism or socialism, we would get equal amounts of ammo. So, be happy with election!

 

[fieldgrade]

I’ve talked to folks recently who are madder than hell that they cannot buy a box of 50 9mm FMJ rounds for $20...and I asked every one of them the same question...

If a dealer sells you that ammo for that price, do you think he’ll be able to restock that box of ammo on the shelf for the same price from his supplier? If he can get it for $20 from his distributor, do you think he oughta continue to sell it for $20/box.

No lie....some of them said, “Yeah”.

I said, “Well, that’d be stupid as f*ck.”

Since there is another thread on this...
THIS IS WHY I AM ANGRY MOST OF THE TIME.

TOO MANY OF OUR OWN HERE ARE JUST... WELL...how can I say it nicely.

Not very smart.

 

[wvsig]

Since there is another thread on this...
THIS IS WHY I AM ANGRY MOST OF THE TIME.

TOO MANY OF OUR OWN HERE ARE JUST... WELL...how can I say it nicely.

Not very smart.

Good thing you grew a beard.

 

[pinkbunny]

Since there is another thread on this...
THIS IS WHY I AM ANGRY MOST OF THE TIME.

TOO MANY OF OUR OWN HERE ARE JUST... WELL...how can I say it nicely.

Not very smart.

I know, some people just jump the gun and assume things about people, without reading and understanding what they are saying.

 

[Hammer12b]

I am instituting a fee per use of this thread, to keep in the spirit of price gouging.

From now on, every new post here will cost you $1

I accept paypal, cash, and bitcoin

Bend over and I’ll swipe my card! 🤣😂😝

 

[CZfool68]

Since there is another thread on this...
THIS IS WHY I AM ANGRY MOST OF THE TIME.

TOO MANY OF OUR OWN HERE ARE JUST... WELL...how can I say it nicely.

Not very smart.

In the last month or so I find myself agreeing with all of your posts. WTF is going on here?

You must be getting wiser. 😆

 

[Hammer12b]

Can you get those prices any time you want, or are they gone in a heartbeat and/or with limits on buying? Every time I check Federal, they are out of stock. Same thing with Academy. Even with buying limits, their stock is gone in an hour or two of the truck coming in.

I bought .380 at Academy today for $18.00 a 50 round box. I felt pretty good about !

 

[Dale Gribble]

Just wanted to add this....

Some folks I know that are angry over the price of 9mm ammunition do not even own a weapon chambered for that cartridge.

My guess is they are mad that they cannot buy it for $20/box and then flip it for $40.

Give you an example...

Dude I know calls me and asked if I’d sell him some 9mm ammo...wants about 5 boxes of 50. Now, this dude is terrible with managing his money (and at times, he’s had plenty, but pissed it away) to the point I am surprised he still has a pot to piss in and a window to throw it out.

Anyhow...I said sure...whatcha gonna shoot it in? He says “my Glock”. I tell him “Nice...what model you have?” and he stutters/stammers, finally pulling “It’s a 20” out of his ass.

I told him that ammo ain’t gonna work too well in Glock 20.

He was looking to flip.

 

[fieldgrade]

Just wanted to add this....

Some folks I know that are angry over the price of 9mm ammunition do not even own a weapon chambered for that cartridge.

My guess is they are mad that they cannot buy it for $20/box and then flip it for $40.

I had a heated argument with a good neighbor over this. He owns a 9mm but I’d wager hasn’t shot it in 20 years.

 

[fieldgrade]

In the last month or so I find myself agreeing with all of your posts. WTF is going on here?

You must be getting wiser. 😆

I’m sure that’s what it is.

 

[Starkherz199]

I just want to be the authority on what is "reasonable" and "fair".

 

[pinkbunny]

I just want to be the authority on what is "reasonable" and "fair".

....well, you are gun Jesus...