Price gouging
- Thread starter falconew
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Good for them.
In fact, more power to them.
Three questions:
Do you want any primers?
Do you need any primers?
Do they have any primers to sell?
RedneckFur
Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace.
Its capitalism at work! They don't have to accept or like my offer. But the offer is always good!
I remember when The local sears price gouged chainsaws after Hurricane Hugo. $500 for the smallest (16”?) one they had. Well after dad got done with them he had a free chain saw, his $$ back + additional $$ to boot..... there’s a line between supply/demand and gouging.
I don't get you guys. You want freedoms and rights guaranteed by the constitution but when someone raises their prices to meet supply and demand you call for boycotting them. Cannot have it both ways. Either you want freedom or want government control.
I would think a boycott would just be another market force, now if someone was calling for .Gov to step in I would see that as more “wanting government control”
RedneckFur
Smith & Wesson is a religion of peace.
Nobody has said "The government should step in and lower prices for me!" That would be government control.
Free men have the right to boycott sellers they don't like. They also have the right to scoff at (and complain about) prices they refuse to pay. That's freedom of speech, and the seller's right to sell for any price they desire isn't impacted in the slightest by doing so.
I just keep buying when something reasonable is offered. Today I picked up 4,000 Winchester LPP for $22.99 a 1000 + tax. I refuse to pay crazy prices for ammo and components until I absolutely have to. My plan is to continue to cherry pick when I can to keep my head above water and buy like crazy when and if the prices drop. If this is the way it is from now on I move back into the market when I have to still trying to buy for the lowest cost I can.
I think the gouging is a crappy thing to do to fellow gun owners but it is a free market and people should be able to sell their stuff for whatever they can get someone to pay for it. That does not mean we have to participate in it as a buyer or a seller. I certainly don't think the Govt should be involved.
I think the gouging is a crappy thing to do to fellow gun owners but it is a free market and people should be able to sell their stuff for whatever they can get someone to pay for it. That does not mean we have to participate in it as a buyer or a seller. I certainly don't think the Govt should be involved.
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There’s no shortage of successful lawsuits that prove otherwise.
So free market freedom loving gun owners want to use the courts to stop the free market?
Negative. Was simply pointing out that there IS a difference in supply/demand vs gouging although I don’t know the legalities or the circumstances that would be required to fit that bill (My only experience being price hiked in stock items after a natural disaster) although I imagine it would be based on a company’s inventory/their cost/current market value (but demand determines that right?) I really don’t know how it works, but I wasn’t implying that member A should sue Member B for any perceived difference in value on a $900 High Point pistol.
Arapaho
Well-Known Member
I drive down to blue collar once a month to pick up my order along with the orders of a bunch of guys I shoot with. Brandon is a good guy to deal with, been getting my business for several years. He just opened a store but probably not much in it at this point lol.
Wish I lived closer. When he was coming to the Raleigh shows, I could email him what I wanted and he would bring it to the show and set it aside for me. Great service, and prices.
There’s no shortage of successful lawsuits that prove otherwise.
Often times there is a real disconnect between what is "legal" and what is "moral" or "objective reality".
There are no shortage of laws and court cases dealing with "assault rifles" which have absolutely nothing to do with the "objective reality" of what actually constitutes an "assault rifle". Does this prove that the AR-15 you may own is, in fact, an "assault rifle"? What about that Ruger 10-22? Or the Browning semi-automatic shotgun handed down to you by your father?
"Gouging" ONLY exists in the dubious definitions within the legal system. It's an example of "malum prohibitum", or "bad only because the law says it's prohibited" (think traffic laws, randomly defining a weapon as something it's not, etc.). As opposed to "malum in se", which is "bad because it's inherently bad or evil in and of itself" (think things like murder, assault, theft).
To be sure, malum prohibitum laws do have their place. Traffic laws dealing with driving on which side of the street, speed limits, passing laws, etc are all examples of malum prohibitum. However, they're necessary to facilitate the safe conduct of people with respect to vehicular traffic.
I agree. Good man, with good prices.
See, the whole issue is that these commodities/services aren't government owned...like in socialist countries which have taken these things out of the hands of private individuals/industry.
All of this stuff is PRIVATELY OWNED merchandise. As such, it's my opinion that the seller of this privately owned goods/services may charge whatever they wish.
If you had a stash of ANY of this stuff, even into the hundreds of thousands of rounds, boxes, crates, or whatever...IT'S YOURS.
The moment someone else comes along and says "you can't sell this for anything more than $XXX", that's less than one step away from saying "you HAVE to give us this because YOU have it and WE don't".
That's horse pucky. IT'S YOURS. Keep it, give it away, sell it...those decisions are YOURS to make as the PRIVATE OWNER of that property.
EVEN DURING AN EMERGENCY.
If you own property and the government wants to come along and take your private property and convert it to public property because they're going to build a highway through there, there's a process called "Imminent Domain" which comes into play. The skinny is they can't JUST take it...they have to provide you just compensation for it.
If you have generator and you've installed a 1,000 gallon fuel tank to supply it, people can't just TAKE it without providing compensation. Even in an emergency. If they do, there's cause to take that to court and fight it for your compensation.
ALL THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS "MORAL". The law and morality do not always go hand in hand. In an emergency, if you choose to be the generous provider out of your largess, awesome. But compelling you is another story.
All of this stuff is PRIVATELY OWNED merchandise. As such, it's my opinion that the seller of this privately owned goods/services may charge whatever they wish.
If you had a stash of ANY of this stuff, even into the hundreds of thousands of rounds, boxes, crates, or whatever...IT'S YOURS.
The moment someone else comes along and says "you can't sell this for anything more than $XXX", that's less than one step away from saying "you HAVE to give us this because YOU have it and WE don't".
That's horse pucky. IT'S YOURS. Keep it, give it away, sell it...those decisions are YOURS to make as the PRIVATE OWNER of that property.
EVEN DURING AN EMERGENCY.
If you own property and the government wants to come along and take your private property and convert it to public property because they're going to build a highway through there, there's a process called "Imminent Domain" which comes into play. The skinny is they can't JUST take it...they have to provide you just compensation for it.
If you have generator and you've installed a 1,000 gallon fuel tank to supply it, people can't just TAKE it without providing compensation. Even in an emergency. If they do, there's cause to take that to court and fight it for your compensation.
ALL THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT IS "MORAL". The law and morality do not always go hand in hand. In an emergency, if you choose to be the generous provider out of your largess, awesome. But compelling you is another story.
Let's take a look at this another way:
To force a person against his will to provide services to another is slavery.
Slavery bad.
In a society where people work for pay, buy and sell services and goods based on that pay, and accumulate material possessions based on that pay, what they're really doing is exchanging services and accumulating goods based on their own ability to provide services through such mediums as "money" and "bartering".
If a person works and uses the fruits of his labor to invest to his own benefit, this is the same thing. He earns money for his services, for example, then invests that money (representing his labor) in ways which increase his lot in life. He builds a storage shed and accumulates stuff in it. He invests in canning equipment and stock up food stores. He invests some in the market, hoping to gain some returns. He sets aside some material/goods for sale to improve his lot in life. Whatever.
Therfore, if you take another person's goods against their will, you are in effect treating that person like a slave. You might just as well had him in chains and forced him directly to till the land and provide food for you.
Just like a slave.
Slavery bad.
To force a person against his will to provide services to another is slavery.
Slavery bad.
In a society where people work for pay, buy and sell services and goods based on that pay, and accumulate material possessions based on that pay, what they're really doing is exchanging services and accumulating goods based on their own ability to provide services through such mediums as "money" and "bartering".
If a person works and uses the fruits of his labor to invest to his own benefit, this is the same thing. He earns money for his services, for example, then invests that money (representing his labor) in ways which increase his lot in life. He builds a storage shed and accumulates stuff in it. He invests in canning equipment and stock up food stores. He invests some in the market, hoping to gain some returns. He sets aside some material/goods for sale to improve his lot in life. Whatever.
Therfore, if you take another person's goods against their will, you are in effect treating that person like a slave. You might just as well had him in chains and forced him directly to till the land and provide food for you.
Just like a slave.
Slavery bad.
That is a good, but very simple, example. It gets more complicated when one person buys out the competition, for goods and services infrastructures that have already been established, and then holds the market hostage - think railroads delivering goods to market. I think this falls under the definition of antitrust. But I admit that is really outside the scope of this discussion.
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Nope there's not. What happened was there was a person who needed that chain saw more than your father and would have paid the $500. Your father basically stole that persons chain saw right out from under them.
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This is precisely why I bought so much in components the past 2yr and more so the 6mo leading up to the Corona panic. I was buying .223 and 9mm components when people were arguing about whether it’s worth it to reload them. It’s about the long game
$150/k is beyond ridiculous though. There better be war in the streets, every street, before we get to that level.
I assume the argument of reloading was that factory ammo itself was nearly the same price, yes? If so, I’m curious what you think the flaw in that logic is. If I can stock up factory ammo (let’s say 9mm @ 0.15$ per round) then why divert resources to components which will now be a time cost in addition to monetary cost?
mid rather have 20k rounds of factory loaded ammo than 20k rounds worth of components. Curious what the opposing mindset is..
If I were shooting 115gr 9mm I’d agree with you. However, I shoot 147gr 9mm so the cost delta isn’t even close. I have plenty of factory .223 but also able to load that for well below factory. When wolf steel was down to about $180/k it was tough to pass up, but by that point I only needed bullets.
My strategy was simply to stash components so that these types of scares aren’t an issue for me.
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gotcha. 147gr makes sense. I shoot 72gr 223 but wolf/Tula have had ridiculous prices (.2$ per round for the “range safe” variety that doesn’t eat up targets).
I have components for few thousand rounds across a few calibers for hedging as well, but def our most of my effort into premade stuff.
I was able to get the cost of reloading 223 ammo down to $0.15 per round, with blem 55fmj bullets and surplus powder, brass not included. Cost of 9mm down to $0.11 per, but I know people that load a lot cheaper than that (I'm using plated bullets). So, I can buy components to have on hand for cheaper than factory. I won't consider buying factory ammo for those, except for self-defense ammo. I have the option of using the same powder and primers across different calibers, and possibly the same projectiles across different cartridges (think .308, 30-30, 30-06, 30 carbine, or 45acp, 45colt, 450Bushmaster, 40S&W, etc).
But for 7.62x39, the steel-cased import ammo is cheaper than you can buy components, so I've stocked up on that caliber in factory ammo. But, I do have components so I can load that caliber, if I have to.
But for 7.62x39, the steel-cased import ammo is cheaper than you can buy components, so I've stocked up on that caliber in factory ammo. But, I do have components so I can load that caliber, if I have to.
It’s pretty much just not wanting people to be butt holes. Government need not apply.
The high price was likely the reason the store still had chainsaws in stock. Would he have sued if they were out because they didn't raise prices?
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I don’t understand why so many people treat reloading and factory ammo as an either or scenario. I personally stock up on both. When factory ammo is cheap is buy it in bulk shoot it and set some aside for later. When reloading components are cheap I buy them and set some aside for later.
I cover all the bases. One thing I will point out is that factory loaded ammo is much easier to sell if you have to or are inclined to do so. You can ship it and people are willing to buy it.
Anything hazmat the avg person can’t ship legally. Unless you are reloading at a commercial level no one wants your reloaded ammunition. Home reloaded is one of those odd items that once assembled the end product is worth a lot less than the individual components.
Why are so many people locked into one way or another? It seems like doing both is the best way to maximize fluctuations in the market. Right now I am 100% back to buying components and reloading. My 9mm cost us around $.10 and 45 ACP us about $.15.
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I think it depends on your goals. If you’re most concerned with absolute lowest cost or can reload better quality ammo for significantly less AND have the time to do so, then reloading 100% makes sense. I don’t really considering selling when I buy ammo but you make a good point.
Since I can reload 147gr 9mm for 11cpr and 55gr .223 for 12cpr, I’m in a great position because I’ve never seen factory ammo even close to this. That said, I’ve yet to actually reload .233 because I have a healthy amount of factory ammo.
Typically when ammo is cheap, components are as well and most people don’t have unlimited funds so they have to pick and choose what to buy when. Buying components right now is just as crappy as buying ammo, being from a dealer or most individuals. Damn primers are 2-5x what they were just a few months ago, and bullets are sparsely available at a 25-100% premium. This is why I bought components over the past few years. Could I have just bought factory ammo? Sure, but again, it would’ve cost me significantly more.
I reload in part because I enjoy doing it. Well stocked on inexpensive components.
I’m feeling a little short on common brass (9mm, 357mag, and 5.56) so still trying to acquire those. I expect that I’ll be able to trade a brick of SPP for a bucket of range brass when I really need it.
Speaking or range brass, sorted some sweeping’s last night and the percentage of .40 just keeps falling. I had more .270 win (from an indoor range) than I did .40s&w.
I’m feeling a little short on common brass (9mm, 357mag, and 5.56) so still trying to acquire those. I expect that I’ll be able to trade a brick of SPP for a bucket of range brass when I really need it.
Speaking or range brass, sorted some sweeping’s last night and the percentage of .40 just keeps falling. I had more .270 win (from an indoor range) than I did .40s&w.
not to worry, they gonna price gouge the hell out of you for free school, free healthcare, free drug treatment programs, free “investments” in illegal immigrants, etc first.
I was paying about $.12-$.16 a round for 9mm brass cased 124gr factory ammo. Always bought in bulk but in understand your point.
From what I have seen reloading components have not gone up as much as factory ammo. I have paid $23-$25 a 1000 for LPP. I paid $33 + hazmat for some SPP. That one hurt a bit. $170 for 8 lb of Win 231. My bullet costs at RMR and Precision Delta were basically the same maybe a 5% increase. Availability on bullets is a bottle neck but it’s not as bad as SPPs.
Right now if you can do it reloading is the way to go.
Yeah I am to opposite. Once I figured out the process and was able to produce consistent enough rounds, no one ever accused me of being a precision shooter, I got bored with the process. I am not the guy who is going to dial the load in for each gun etc... I just want reliable accurate enough ammo to hit steel targets and kill that evil paper. LOL I get that for a lot of people its a hobby within a hobby. The wife refers to me as the ammo monkey every time she sees I am reloading.
I might get a Dillon after all this is over because I have a feeling a lot of people who are buying the equipment now will not really use it and it will take up space and something new and shiny will have their attention and they will want to get some of their money back on the big blue press collecting dust.
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I don't understand why this is such a shock it happens every couple of years. As mentioned before stock up while it is cheap, if you don't like to reload buy factory. I personally enjoy the tinkering side of reloading , different loads and different powders. If you don't enjoy it then buy factory. Whats funny is the same people that argue i can buy 9mm for same price as reloading and that i am wasting my time are the ones complaining they cant find any on the shelf. I wish i had a bunch of factory rounds to sell right now. Its no different than playing the stock market.
From each according to his abilty,
To each according to his needs.
Where have I seen that before?
To each according to his needs.
Where have I seen that before?
I wondered if someone would go this route.
The key phrase in a "free market economy" is "FREE MARKET".
When a monopoly exists, then a free market economy cannot. This is what the antitrust/anti-monopoly laws are about.
That's not the same as you or I having an entire garage full of toilet paper we've bought/invested in waiting for the time some crazy Chinese virus might be unleashed upon the world and all the Karen's across the country march upon the stores and deplete the entire national stockpile of butt paper.