Scope alignment

KnotRight

KnotRight

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Benefactor
Life Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
5,551
Location
Savannah, GA
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
I am having problems with the alignment of my scope. I thought that it was the scope so I sent it back to Burris and they said it was all good. Put it back on the gun and do not have enough windage to move the crosshairs to zero. The reason I sent off the scope. When looking at the scope my shooting partners said that the scope does not look inline with the barrel.
These are the rings that I lapped this week. Do you think the the HARD mounts on the gun can be off?
Looking for suggestions!
 
Last edited:
Here you go. As you can see from the level the scope is level. Notice the picture from the front.
20190202_164728.jpg
20190202_164739.jpg
20190202_164750.jpg
 
new/new to you gun?
Have you tried a different scope?
different mount/rings?

I ask about the rifle itself because I one a while back that had to return to the factory for rebarelling. The barrel/receiver interface wasn't square. In your pic, it looks to me like the barrel could be a few degrees off center.
 
Last edited:
Either the barrel is misaligned with the receiver (per Tim) or the axis of the scope rings is not parallel with the centerline. The more I look at it, the more it appears that the barrel is cocked. But it's hard to say from here. If you reversed the front ring (180 deg) what would happen?
 
Red I am not sure the mounts can be reversed because CZ has a pin slot in the rear mount. Tonight I am going to pull the scope off. Is there anyway to see if the mounts on the rifle are square to the bore?
 
Just an idea but if one had access to a lathe, one could make a dummy for the scope tube that will accept a laser bore sight (centered); then put a laser bore sight in the rifle's chamber. Point at a far wall and see how close the dots are. Others may have a better idea. But I would sure study the scope mounts and the barrel. A good gunsmith could probably measure it.
 
Looking at the first picture from the top, the glass seems to be not centered with the barrel. It can be level and not centered. Does anybody else see this or is it "old man" seeing?
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Looking at the first picture from the top, the glass seems to be not centered with the barrel. It can be level and not centered. Does anybody else see this or is it "old man" seeing?
Click to expand...

Billy, so the question is, is it the mounts on the gun or the rings? Tonight if the rings be changed for front to back might help answer the question.
 
I may be see things but it looks to me like the front ring is square but the scope is going through it sideways. Maybe the rings aren't aligned?
 
Yeah, as you guys have surmised, the scope is definitely off. eye piece is left of center, bell is right of center. odd. Look forward to seeing what you find out.
 
what does the previous owner say?
 
Took off the scope and taking the gun and rings to a smith next week. If he says nothing is wrong I am going to have him mount the scope and we will head to the range. I enjoy reloading but I am tired of wasting ammo trying to get it zeroed.
 
You lapping your rings is a high probability of the cause. I've seen it few times before. Buying quality rings, you will not need to lap...every

Start from the rifle and build up. Pic mounts/ thread holes in alignment
Scope rings aligned
Start testing scope

Unfortuannly to do that testing you need indicators, your smith should have all that. If you have question shoot me a PM.
 
……. that's way off.....SneakyMedic is dead on that one. Double check the simple stuff....
1. - Are both rings mounted the same way? IE are both ring tightening screws/bolts on the same side of the rifle?
2. - Remove the scope rings and look for any burrs/dings/dents where the scope rings make contact the rail? - both rings and rail.
3. - Are they the right rings? Most of the CZ rifles use an oddball ring mounting size...… 19mm?
4. - Are they mounted flush? I goofed one up once...…. I somehow installed the ring slightly crooked, but somehow it tightened up and everything felt fine until I tried to zero in..... and I was in a similar situation..... I didn't have enough windage to get a zero.
5. - Is it possible what when you lapped the rings they were somehow crooked, then when you lapped them they became permanently crooked?
6. - After lapping the rings, did you mix up the front and back rings or top and bottom halves? Once the rings are lapped.... the need to be kept together as a set. IE - The front top and bottom need to stay together and do not rotate the top half. I usually mark them with a paint pen or masking tape if I remove them for some reason.
 
BowWow, thanks for the write-up. The mounts on the rifle came are made to the rifle. As you said the CZ mounts are a little screwy. The rear mount has a pin in one side so that dictates what side the screws goes onto the mounts. I will remount the rings again and try lapping a little more to see if that helps. These should be good rings, they are Leupold. What made me start lapping in the first place was you could see groves in them.
 
Not exactly sure what grooves you are talking about, but some scope rings have grooves machined inside the rings.....for grip maybe? They are supposed to be there......if this is the case, those rings are probably junk know. You removed wayyyy too much steel if this was the case.
 
What did you use to lap the rings? Was it a lapping kit with a steel bar that goes thru both rings at one time and lapping compound? If so, I think you would die of old age before you removed too much material. Lapping is a slow process. CZ uses several different width dovetails, make sure you have the correct with rings and they are not on the rifle reversed.
 
Slabsides I was using a Wheeler lapping kit. It took forever to get what I thought was about 75 to 80% lapped. I am going to take another look at the rings to see if the wear marks are on opposite sides. If so, I would think that show the scope is facing to one side.
 
Lapping the rings usually doesnt take too long. Using the wheeler kit.....

1. Tighten up the rings so the the rod is stiff to rotate. Be sure a light coat of lapping compound has been applied 360 degrees around the rod. Rotate back and forth a few times until not stiff to rotate. It should not be stiff to rotate within a dozen roatations or so.
2. Repeat step 1.
3. Repeat step 1.
4. You should have adequately lapped the rings by the 3rd time.
4. Use some type of method to match the rings. IE, with a paint pen, mark a F under the front ring, and a R under the rear. Paint and arrow to indicate which way is forward. Do similar for the top half of the ring. You can do this on the inside of the ring. Its important to keep them as a matched set after they are lapped.
5. Use a Wipe away all lapping compound. Lightly oil and mount scope.

If you are repeating the tightening ring-lapping process several times, sumting pwobably wrong. It could take more than 3 times, but not much more.
 
Last edited:
^^^ What BowWow said. I have used the Wheeler kit for years with no issues. Mark your rings and make sure they did not get mixed up and top and bottoms reversed during reassembly. I normally use a punch to mark one side of each ring, one prick on the RH sides of the front rings, two pricks on the RH sides of the rear rings. That way I can insure they go back together the way they were lapped.
 
Does the rear base have those windage adjustment screws. If so, is the rear ring centered or is it far to one side?
Does the front ring attach by a dovetail? If so, it seems as if, from the pictures, that you did not get it twisted in correctly since it seems to be pointing to the right. Lapping would not cause the scope to be off as much as it appears to be unless you lapped on the rings for weeks and weeks. I doubt you did that. Take off the old rings to replace them if they have been made useless by excess lapping and take some careful measurements on the bases to make sure they are straight. You should then be able to reinstall the rings. Make sure they are aligned properly. Eyeball them and then get out your ruler. You might even want to get a 1 inch wooden dowel several feet long and clamp it in the rings to see if it lines up parallel to the barrel.

I do have a Ruger 44 Carbine that has holes for the mounts that do not line up properly. The ones up on the barrel are off to the left enough to make scope mounting problematic. Make sure your rifle is not the problem.
 
Today I lapped the rings again and cleaned everything with brake cleaner. Put the scope back on the gun and took it to a friend that builds precision long range rifles (CH Precision Rifles). He played around with the bore sighting the gun and then I took it back to the range. Below is the end result but when the smith was adjusting the scope the screwed up the eye relief. Well I know that the scope is good. These were at 95 yards. The last 5 yards was a mud pit.
Target.jpg
 
KnotRight said:
Today I lapped the rings again and cleaned everything with brake cleaner. Put the scope back on the gun and took it to a friend that builds precision long range rifles (CH Precision Rifles). He played around with the bore sighting the gun and then I took it back to the range. Below is the end result but when the smith was adjusting the scope the screwed up the eye relief. Well I know that the scope is good. These were at 95 yards. The last 5 yards was a mud pit.
View attachment 103738
Click to expand...

Just saw this! So everything is cool now? That is looking like a nice couple of groups. Did your buddy saw what might have been the problem?
 
CZfool68 said:
Just saw this! So everything is cool now? That is looking like a nice couple of groups. Did your buddy saw what might have been the problem?
Click to expand...
CZ, I have no idea why it was so off. I am thinking that the front mount had something under the lip causing the mount to not be square. He also tighten up the stock screws. Not sure how loose they were.
The trigger is getting smoother the more I shoot it My 204 is breaking around 9 oz and this one is just under a pound which is not bad but think it still might drop a couple more more. BTW, I have not shot the Ruger 1 with the scope. Going to Atlanta for a few days. Wish I knew of a long range up there. When I get back, that is the next project to get zeroed in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom